Civil War feels like a gimmick.

[gildea]

That's extreme. No I'm not saying that.
But see here's the thing; the superheroes were doing a fine job for YEARS w/o government interference. Something goes wrong-again at a villain's hands-& now they need to be put on leashes?
Were you arguing in favor of hero control a year ago?

No because as i've said it's and accepted genre convention. It's something I willingly suspend my disbelief over whenever I pick up a superhero comic -that the government would let vigilantes run amok so to speak. But now that goverment has changed their minds I don't need to suspend my disbelief on that score and can apply real world logic to the situation a tad more closely.

 

[Chris Wallace]

So now that they've moved the goalposts you're all for it?

 

[Chris Wallace]

The government should only regulate the schools and decide what the requirments are for becoming licensed.

let's use the example of Driver's Licenses. You can go to a school, learn how to drive, learn all the rules of the road etc. But ultimately it's the government that gives you the test to see if you actually get the driver's license.

That's the way I see this as well. Schools run by individuals but in the end it's the government giving the test. In the end even those with experience could bypass the schooling and just go for the test. Character's like Spiderman would likely pass easily, but new heroes just coming into it would likely would not, so training would become a requirment if they wanted to get into the biz.

Again, I'm not saying whether or not the heroes COULD be free to regulate/police themselves, having completed said training. I'm saying they wouldn't be. When I was in Marine Boot Camp my drill instructor told me that by the time I laced up my first pair of boots, the government had spent about $100,000,000 on me, & they wanted a return on their investment. Do you think they'd do differently w/the costumed set?

 

[roach]

My biggest problem is that goverment-regulated training automatically equals "we own you now"; if it were possible to do one w/o the other then I could get behind it. But you can't. No government that would introduce a registration act would give heroes badges & then not keep them on a short leash. Since I'm against that part of it I'm against registration as a whole.

Under my plan the Avengers would regulate training and the Avengers would be government sponsored

 

[NateGray]

No because as i've said it's and accepted genre convention. It's something I willingly suspend my disbelief over whenever I pick up a superhero comic -that the government would let vigilantes run amok so to speak. But now that goverment has changed their minds I don't need to suspend my disbelief on that score and can apply real world logic to the situation a tad more closely.

Its still a comic book and Real world anything NEVER applies EVER.
So back to suspending disbelief....

 

[gildea]

So now that they've moved the goalposts you're all for it?

Yes in the sense that people are allowed to change their minds if a better idea comes to them. Governments change laws all the time that have been in existance for years, superheroes are no exception. If someone is going to do something dangerous they need to do it properly and accountably.


No in the sense that I don't see how a comic book can work like that (not from a MU perspective but from a real life perspective) as it seems to shift the genre conventions a bit TOO heavily, however that isn't an argument against the act from an "in story" perspective, cap couldn't say that without breaking the fourth wall. As I think you said spiderman showing up with 50 shield agents to tackle the goblin wouldn't be too interesting IMO. However the mini isn't finished yet...

 

[Chris Wallace]

Under my plan the Avengers would regulate training and the Avengers would be government sponsored

But it ain't gonna happen that way.
This isn't about public safety or vigilanteism; it's about politics. The bigwigs are doing this to send out the message that they are in control. When people realize that they'll stop defending the Registration Act & see it for what it is.

 

[gildea]

Its still a comic book and Real world anything NEVER applies EVER.
So back to suspending disbelief....

nonsense, absolute nonsense.

Certain things apply in the real world that always apply in the comic, heck the appeal of marvel comics was traditionally that it was so close to the real world.

 

[roach]

Again, I'm not saying whether or not the heroes COULD be free to regulate/police themselves, having completed said training. I'm saying they wouldn't be. When I was in Marine Boot Camp my drill instructor told me that by the time I laced up my first pair of boots, the government had spent about $100,000,000 on me, & they wanted a return on their investment. Do you think they'd do differently w/the costumed set?

Avengers sponsored.....first costume of unstable molecules is free. Every costume after that must be bought. The heroes get paid via direct diposit to their accounts.

 

[roach]

But it ain't gonna happen that way.
This isn't about public safety or vigilanteism; it's about politics. The bigwigs are doing this to send out the message that they are in control. When people realize that they'll stop defending the Registration Act & see it for what it is.

I thought to was a knee jerk reaction to the Stamford massacre

 

[NateGray]

nonsense, absolute nonsense.

Certain things apply in the real world that always apply in the comic, heck the appeal of marvel comics was traditionally that it was so close to the real world.

That's your opinion not a fact.
I have never felt comic books can be applied to real world anything something about them you know having something that doesn't exist in the real world kinda makes your point moot.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Yes in the sense that people are allowed to change their minds if a better idea comes to them. Governments change laws all the time that have been in existance for years, superheroes are no exception. If someone is going to do something dangerous they need to do it properly and accountably.


No in the sense that I don't see how a comic book can work like that (not from a MU perspective but from a real life perspective) as it seems to shift the genre conventions a bit TOO heavily, however that isn't an argument against the act from an "in story" perspective, cap couldn't say that without breaking the fourth wall. As I think you said spiderman showing up with 50 shield agents to tackle the goblin wouldn't be too interesting IMO. However the mini isn't finished yet...

Didn't I say Ock?

 

[gildea]

That's your opinion not a fact.
I have never felt comic books can be applied to real world anything something about them you know having something that doesn't exist in the real world kinda makes your point moot.

Comic books depend on real world conventions and real world knowledge. And it is a fact, most of marvel comics take place in a real world city New York, therefore there are a whole host of real world conventions therefore applied inherently. for example marvel comics never asks/tried to suspend the readers disbelief that new york is a city consisting of one house, a cat and a slightly irrate chicken, no the apply real world conventions in making up new york because peoples disbelief doesn't suspend that far.

Similarly gravity applies in the mu much like it does in the real world, sure some characters can fly but thats a superpower it doesn't mean gravity isn't working.

There are thousands of other example of the real world applying to the MU but I don't think they are really required.

 

[gildea]

Didn't I say Ock?

lol sorry I couldn't quite remember though I do agree with what you say

 

[NateGray]

Comic books depend on real world conventions and real world knowledge. And it is a fact, most of marvel comics take place in a real world city New York, therefore there are a whole host of real world conventions therefore applied inherently. for example marvel comics never asks/tried to suspend the readers disbelief that new york is a city consisting of one house, a cat and a slightly irrate chicken, no the apply real world conventions in making up new york because peoples disbelief doesn't suspend that far.

Similarly gravity applies in the mu much like it does in the real world, sure some characters can fly but thats a superpower it doesn't mean gravity isn't working.

There are thousands of other example of the real world applying to the MU but I don't think they are really required.

Those are physic's similarities and some parts of this I agree with but the governments and police etc in MU or DC have never been anything like the real ones.
Where is the shield helecarrier in our world?
see I can go on and on with stuff that just is not even possible its a two way street thats why I just do not feel they are anything like the real world and have felt that way since I started reading them at 5 years old.

 

[gildea]

Those are physic's similarities and some parts of this I agree with but the governments and police etc in MU or DC have never been anything like the real ones.
Where is the shield helecarrier in our world?
.

Your missing my point which is only that SOME conventions in real life are conventions in comic books too. That's all it is.

MU governments Anything like the real ones? Is there a POTUS?? There you go something like the real ones.

The existance of helicarriers is completely irrelevant as I never said it IS the real world (which would be beyond stupid given the existance of superpowers).

 

[Chris Wallace]

Comic books depend on real world conventions and real world knowledge. And it is a fact, most of marvel comics take place in a real world city New York, therefore there are a whole host of real world conventions therefore applied inherently. for example marvel comics never asks/tried to suspend the readers disbelief that new york is a city consisting of one house, a cat and a slightly irrate chicken, no the apply real world conventions in making up new york because peoples disbelief doesn't suspend that far.

Similarly gravity applies in the mu much like it does in the real world, sure some characters can fly but thats a superpower it doesn't mean gravity isn't working.

There are thousands of other example of the real world applying to the MU but I don't think they are really required.

It's naive to say real world issues shouldn't apply to the MU when that's been the key to their appeal for 40+ years.
That said, the Registration Act is a great plot device, due largely to the fallout. It has tons of great storytelling potential (which hasn't really been tapped but oh, well) But in practice I'm against it. In practice it would turn superheroes into tools & take all the fun out of their stories.

 

[NateGray]

Your missing my point which is only that SOME conventions in real life are conventions in comic books too. That's all it is.

MU governments Anything like the real ones? Is there a POTUS?? There you go something like the real ones.

The existance of helicarriers is completely irrelevant as I never said it IS the real world (which would be beyond stupid given the existance of superpowers).

And that is my point because there are superpowered people nothing real world can truely be applied when you have people so far above the worlds governments in power levels.
In the real world if there were people like that there would most likley be mass hysteria and governments wouldn't be anything like what they are now....

 

[NateGray]

It's naive to say real world issues shouldn't apply to the MU when that's been the key to their appeal for 40+ years.
That said, the Registration Act is a great plot device, due largely to the fallout. It has tons of great storytelling potential (which hasn't really been tapped but oh, well) But in practice I'm against it. In practice it would turn superheroes into tools & take all the fun out of their stories.

See my post below why I do not feel anything real world should really ever be applied.

 

[gildea]

It's naive to say real world issues shouldn't apply to the MU when that's been the key to their appeal for 40+ years.
That said, the Registration Act is a great plot device, due largely to the fallout. It has tons of great storytelling potential (which hasn't really been tapped but oh, well) But in practice I'm against it. In practice it would turn superheroes into tools & take all the fun out of their stories.

I wasn't talking to you sir it was nate grey who made that bizarre statment about nothing in the real world applying to the mu.

 

[NateGray]

I wasn't talking to you sir it was nate grey who made that bizarre statment about nothing in the real world applying to the mu.

Well to clarify and I will modify the original post if you want but thats how I have always felt and my uncle who used to buy them for me used to say it to me as well somaybe thats why I feel that way again something about super powered people would change our world more than I think you are thinking.
Our world would be nothing like it is now if people with powers from MU or DC existed.

 

[gildea]

And that is my point because there are superpowered people nothing real world can truely be applied when you have people so far above the worlds governments in power levels.
In the real world if there were people like that there would most likley be mass hysteria and governments wouldn't be anything like what they are now....

Yes but SOME THINGS REAL WORLD ARE APPLIED, WHICH YOU HAVE ALREADY CONCEDED!!!! AS SUCH YOUR STAMENT OF "NOTHING REAL WORLD CAN BE APPLIED" IS, AS STATED, NONSENSE BECAUSE THINGS THAT ARE TAKEN FOR GRANTED SUCH AS GRAVITY, NEW YORK DO APPLY. I HAVE NEVER SAID EVERYTHING APPLIES THE DIFFERENCES TWIXT REAL LIFE AND COMICS ARE WHAT MAKE THEM FUN!!!!!!

Sorry for the above I hit caps lock by accident and can't be bothered changing it .

 

[gildea]

Well to clarify and I will modify the original post if you want but thats how I have always felt and my uncle who used to buy them for me used to say it to me as well somaybe thats why I feel that way again something about super powered people would change our world more than I think you are thinking.
Our world would be nothing like it is now if people with powers from MU or DC existed.

Sorry I'm coming off as an arrogant **** here.

I agree our world would be nothing like MU or DC if powers existed but I do believe there are some real world elements in MU or DC.

 

[NateGray]

Yes but SOME THINGS REAL WORLD ARE APPLIED, WHICH YOU HAVE ALREADY CONCEDED!!!! AS SUCH YOUR STAMENT OF "NOTHING REAL WORLD CAN BE APPLIED" IS, AS STATED, NONSENSE BECAUSE THINGS THAT ARE TAKEN FOR GRANTED SUCH AS GRAVITY, NEW YORK DO APPLY. I HAVE NEVER SAID EVERYTHING APPLIES THE DIFFERENCES TWIXT REAL LIFE AND COMICS ARE WHAT MAKE THEM FUN!!!!!!

Sorry for the above I hit caps lock by accident and can't be bothered changing it .

Thats just it though even the little things are only slightly similar heck no not even gravity acts the same in the MU or DC when people can control it is not the same as the real world at least IMO anyways

 

[NateGray]

Sorry I'm coming off as an arrogant **** here.

I agree our world would be nothing like MU or DC if powers existed but I do believe there are some real world elements in MU or DC.

Nah no worse than me and I am sorry if I am comming off that way.

And I to concede my original post is mostly just my opinion and I should have stated it that way better.