Civil War feels like a gimmick.

[twylight]

Someone understands. I may cry.

*hands him hankie*

 

[Chris Wallace]

Why, she thinks Iron Man is a jerk, too?

That, too. Read my previous post.

 

[stillanerd]

What might've been better is if they'd kept it in debate in Congress longer, let the heroes voice their opinions, allow more pros & cons to come to light-and not have ANY of the heroes support it! All of them should've been fighting for the right to regulate themselves & not become government stooges. The fighting shouldn't have been hero against hero, but heroes against the government. That would make more sense than what they're doing now.
"I don't wanna register."
"I think it's a good idea, so I'm just gonna have to beat you into submission."

Well, I definately agree with the idea that there should've been a longer debate in congress, especially right after the Riverbank Massacre. It would've been great to actually see Captain America argue against it before Congress rather than instantly going into the in-fighting between superheroes even before the act was even passed.

Also, you idea actually sound awful close to what the original concept for Civil War was going to be as proposed by Bendis: that is was going to be the superheroes vs. S.H.I.E.L.D. over the idea that registration passes, all the heroes resist, and S.H.I.E.L.D. tries to round them up, sort of like what happened in "Days of Future Past," X-Men 2, and X-Men 3, only on a larger scale and not just involving mutants. It was when Millar got on board that it "evolved" into a superhero vs. superhero battle.

 

[Doc Destruction]

*hands him hankie*

Thank you Twy...*sniff*

 

[Chris Wallace]

Well, I definately agree with the idea that there should've been a longer debate in congress, especially right after the Riverbank Massacre. It would've been great to actually see Captain America argue against it before Congress rather than instantly going into the in-fighting between superheroes even before the act was even passed.

Also, you idea actually sound awful close to what the original concept for Civil War was going to be as proposed by Bendis: that is was going to be the superheroes vs. S.H.I.E.L.D. over the idea that registration passes, all the heroes resist, and S.H.I.E.L.D. tries to round them up, sort of like what happened in "Days of Future Past," X-Men 2, and X-Men 3, only on a larger scale and not just involving mutants. It was when Millar got on board that it "evolved" into a superhero vs. superhero battle.

Did not know that.

 

[roach]

Well, I definately agree with the idea that there should've been a longer debate in congress, especially right after the Riverbank Massacre. It would've been great to actually see Captain America argue against it before Congress rather than instantly going into the in-fighting between superheroes even before the act was even passed.

Also, you idea actually sound awful close to what the original concept for Civil War was going to be as proposed by Bendis: that is was going to be the superheroes vs. S.H.I.E.L.D. over the idea that registration passes, all the heroes resist, and S.H.I.E.L.D. tries to round them up, sort of like what happened in "Days of Future Past," X-Men 2, and X-Men 3, only on a larger scale and not just involving mutants. It was when Millar got on board that it "evolved" into a superhero vs. superhero battle.

I agree that would have been much better than what we got

 

[Chris Wallace]

I like that Stan Lee quote.
And it's not too late to do some good w/the story; just make the positions & objectives a little clearer.

 

[roach]

I like that Stan Lee quote.
And it's not too late to do some good w/the story; just make the positions & objectives a little clearer.

It came from this years Comic Con when someone asked him about the changes to Spider-man for the movies.

The Law needs to be clarified. What exactly do the heroes need to do??? Does a hero have to work for the gov if he registers????

 

[gildea]

The Law needs to be clarified. What exactly do the heroes need to do??? Does a hero have to work for the gov if he registers????

that REALLY needs to be clarified.

 

[Chris Wallace]

As far as I can tell, registration does mean MANDITORY government employment.
But you're right; the specific terms have never been spelled out.

 

[gildea]

As far as I can tell, registration does mean MANDITORY government employment.

Thats the impression I get too (and where the registration act begins to fall down for me).

There was a hint that they don't actually know in the MU either when Jessica was talking to iron an in NA.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Thats the impression I get too (and where the registration act begins to fall down for me).

So the idea of superheroes having to register their identities w/the government doesn't bother you so much as long as they're then free to do their thing on their own terms?

 

[Vanguard07]

I can understand having to register their identities i guess but yeah. The mandatory government employment goes way too far.
I wouldnt want the government telling me who the bad guys are. They're clearly not that trustworthy.

 

[gildea]

So the idea of superheroes having to register their identities w/the government doesn't bother you so much as long as they're then free to do their thing on their own terms?

Yes I think registering your powers, abilities and identity is a sensible thing (from a real world perspective).

I also think you should have to complete some training before you use your powers to fight crime or whatever, we make people take a test before driving a car to prevent accidents so I can't really see the why someone who could destroy a good chunk of the city should have training and a liscense to use their powers to reinforce societys laws.

But I disagree with the idea that if you are blessed with powers you HAVE to use them as a government employee which seems to be the case.

 

[Vanguard07]

Agreed. I wouldnt be so opposed to it if it were a liscense type of deal. Register your name and abilities and take some skill tests or whatever and get your liscense.
But just cause you're a registered driver doesnt mean the government should be able to tell you where you drive.

 

[roach]

Agreed. I wouldnt be so opposed to it if it were a liscense type of deal. Register your name and abilities and take some skill tests or whatever and get your liscense.
But just cause you're a registered driver doesnt mean the government should be able to tell you where you drive.

exactly

 

[Chris Wallace]

Yes I think registering your powers, abilities and identity is a sensible thing (from a real world perspective).

I also think you should have to complete some training before you use your powers to fight crime or whatever, we make people take a test before driving a car to prevent accidents so I can't really see the why someone who could destroy a good chunk of the city should have training and a liscense to use their powers to reinforce societys laws.

But I disagree with the idea that if you are blessed with powers you HAVE to use them as a government employee which seems to be the case.

I do agree that superheroes should not be tools of the government; that takes the fun out of it. As for the training, I'm ambivalent.
Should you know what you're doing before you get involved in battles that can cause millions in property damage? Yes. But mandating it now is kind of closing the barn door after the horse has left. Many established heroes have received their training on the job, through experience. Which is in some cases the best teacher of all-look at Spider-Man.
Then you have the X-Men, who get plenty of formal instruction before they even think about putting on tights. That's great & all, but everybody w/powers & good intentions can't get to 1407 Greymalkin.
The real downside to me, as far as the training goes, is that it doesn't guarantee anything. Cops & soldiers are thoroughly trained. Yet they make mistakes all the time. Innocent bystanders die all the time, because you can't prepare for everything. The Nitro incident could just as easily have happened with Captain America, depending on the circumstances. You used driver's licenses as an example. Licensed drivers kill people all the time.
I say training should be on a case-by-case basis. And I'm against registration b/c if the wrong person/people get into office (BUSH!) then the heroes can be easily exploited & abused. Or a really smart villain can make the right connections & have eeverything they need to take the registered heroes down.
Or think about this one; remember all those times that Mysterio & the Chameleon framed Spider-Man? Had the SHRA been in place, the feds could have just shown up at Peter's doorstep & slapped the cuffs on him. He would've never had a chance to clear himself.

 

[gildea]

Or think about this one; remember all those times that Mysterio & the Chameleon framed Spider-Man? Had the SHRA been in place, the feds could have just shown up at Peter's doorstep & slapped the cuffs on him. He would've never had a chance to clear himself.

thats a decent point I never considered before. However In those stories I'll bet you pete had a rock sold alibi for peter parkers whereabouts so it works both ways.

 

[Chris Wallace]

And when Spidey was implicated in the Staceys' deaths? There are plenty of other examples where his actions in costume would have brought the government to his doorstep. A hero like Spidey should be able to keep Spider-man's life separate from Peter Parker's. Registering the heroes would only hamper them in the long run.

 

[Mrh7448]

In a real world situation I would be all for training, in the Marvel Universe it wouldn't work so well. They'd have to do that so many years of "vigilantism" would count towards the training and certification. Of course it doesn't mean that everyone would be perfect, but that's what insurance is for, same as a driver has to be insured against liability so should superheroes.

But can you imagine being the guy trying to tell the Hulk he's failed his certificate course in super hero daring do?

 

[gildea]

And when Spidey was implicated in the Staceys' deaths? There are plenty of other examples where his actions in costume would have brought the government to his doorstep. A hero like Spidey should be able to keep Spider-man's life separate from Peter Parker's. Registering the heroes would only hamper them in the long run.

It may hamper them but its not there to make life easy it's there to keep the public safe. I do think if spidey is a murder suspect then the police have every right to speak to him.
Also what if spidey does go nuts and kill someone? We rely on other heroes to bring him down? (that may work now but years ago when no one knew his identity he could easily have disappeared).

You used driver's licenses as an example. Licensed drivers kill people all the time.

Do you HONESTLY believe that if people didn't need a license, training and test to be able to drive that the level of deaths/accidents would be the same?

Ditto the police/army.

Sure accidents will always happen but there are ways to minimise them.

(again I point out I'm arguing from a real world and not a comic world perspective).

 

[Chris Wallace]

I am saying that registration won't solve anything. It won't make people safer; letting the heroes do their jobs will. Nitro killed all those people in Stamford, but noone seems interested in him except Wolverine. (Love his take on it, BTW.) The heroes are being scapegoated.

 

[gildea]

Who watches the watchmen?

 

[Byrd Man]

here is an article comparing Civil War to the Civil War

http://comics.ign.com/articles/721/721482p1.html

 

[Chris Wallace]

Who watches the watchmen?

Never read Watchmen.