The Amazing Spider-Man Comics Pros Weigh in on the Reboot

[NinjaCarm]

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/the-q-spiderman-movie-100213.html

I don't think Gerry Conway could have said it any better.

Gerry Conway

Well, of course, I hope this time they kill Gwen Stacy.

About the third movie. Never really got behind Tobey Maguire as Spider-Man -- he's a great actor, did a great job with the part, but didn't have the internal energy that I've always associated with Peter Parker. He just didn't impress me as someone who'd wisecrack in the face of death.

I also was never fond of Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane. Again, a terrific actor, but she didn't strike me as the right casting for MJ -- MJ, in my view, is a woman who's cursed by the expectations others have for her based on her appearance. She should appear to be a vaguely ****ty babe, and whatever one might say about Dunst, wonderful actress that she may be, a babe she's not.

Both Dunst and Maguire are actors who bring a great deal of internal intelligence to their performances, but not a lot of charisma. I'm not in favor of casting this like a CW show, but it seems to me Peter Parker should be a charismatic character underneath his shy, homebody exterior -- that's the internal energy that bursts out when he's Spider-Man, that's what becomes liberated when he puts on t he mask, but it should be apparent, as a potential, even when he's not in superhero mode.

As for MJ, she should present as a Bad Girl, as misunderstood and underestimated by the world as Peter is. Recasting these actors can only improve the impact of the franchise.

And by all means, they should kill Gwen.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Agreed 100% More or less exactly how I've felt since SM2.

 

[Micah12345]

Yep. Conway nails it on the head.

 

[Dragon]

Conway is an idiot. Gwen wasn't born to die. Stan created her to be THE ONE. And she is. And MJ has never lived up to expectations, which is why nearly 40 years after Conway killed Gwen, she won't stay dead, and MJ is constantly being given the boot.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

And yet she always comes back, because people demand more of her. Hell, half the fan base is not reading the comic books or complaining about them now, because they got rid of MJ.

MJ and Gwen are BOTH the one. Peter had two loves in his life. He got lucky, deal with it.

 

[Dragon]

And yet she always comes back, because people demand more of her. Hell, half the fan base is not reading the comic books or complaining about them now, because they got rid of MJ.

MJ and Gwen are BOTH the one. Peter had two loves in his life. He got lucky, deal with it.

Many- MANY are not complaining that she's gone. Only the reason WHY she's gone. A deal with the devil is not Peter Parker.

And then the other half (And the creative folks) want her gone again. MJ is superficial fluff. Gwen had depth. The hilarity is that Gwen was killed to boost sales and sales sank when she was killed.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Gwen while having a great impact on the books and being a character with a great legacy, had a pretty one note character. She was the sweet innocent girl next door you brought home to Mom. That was her one character trait. I love her to bits, just as much as I love Mary Jane.

But Mary Jane is a FAR deeper character.

 

[Dragon]

Gwen while having a great impact on the books and being a character with a great legacy, had a pretty one note character. She was the sweet innocent girl next door you brought home to Mom. That was her one character trait. I love her to bits, just as much as I love Mary Jane.

But Mary Jane is a FAR deeper character.

Spoken like someone who never read the comics. Gwen was neither sweet, innocent or the girl next door. She was fiery. She was sexy and she was smart and tough. The only thing MJ had over her was being brought to the fore in a time when supportiing characters could have whole issues devoted to exploring them. When Gwen was around, supporting characters had to take a secondary spot to the action. That's the only reason she wasn't given the pagetime that MJ got.

And, even after GETTING so much pagetime, MJ would always wear out her welcome, because there simply wasn't much to do with her. Aside from being funny and flirtatious, she had little else to offer. When the dramatic weight of the comic was thrust upon her, there was nothing to do with her other than cliche' stuff (She loves Peter so much. She's a brave little soldier). An actress and model doesn't have the kind of relevance to make her stand-out next to Peter Parker/ Spider-Man. The firebrand daughter of an ex-cop killed while trying to save a life did. Conway simply didn't have the creativity and intelliegence to explore that.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

While she was smart, and she was tough. She was most CERTAINLY not fiery. That's Mary Jane's territory. Gwen couldn't be fiery if she wanted to.

With your assessment of Mary Jane, I could also be a complete jerk and say that you speak like someone whose never read the comics either. Mary Jane had so many issues of her own besides being a model and actress it's not funny. The only time Gwen got issues that I can think of is when her father died and she left for Paris. That and the later post-death story where it was revealed she was pregnant with Norman Osborn's babies (god, I hate the story so much.)

 

[Spider-Fan]

I agree with Dragon. The love of Peter's life was Gwen. MJ is Peter's love right now cause the love of his life fell off a bridge. MJ may have been the one that stuck around, but that doesn't make her the love of Peter's life.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Gwen and Peter would've gotten married, sure, but she died. Mary Jane and Peter came to love one another THROUGH Gwen. And that's a very beautiful kind of love. They bonded over a tragedy that affected them both deeply. That's almost as powerful a love as the one shared between Gwen and Peter.

They are BOTH great loves of Peter's life. They both will forever hold special places in his heart.

 

[Dragon]

While she was smart, and she was tough. She was most CERTAINLY not fiery. That's Mary Jane's territory. Gwen couldn't be fiery if she wanted to.

Really? Nearly slugging Peter in ASM #36? Actually slugging a guy in ASM #68? Standing up to the Kingpin, Kraven and Spidey (Whom she thought had killed her father). Sounds pretty fiery to me. MJ folded when she'd seen the Vulture commit murder and wouldn't go to the police for fear of retribution. Gwen would have.

With your assessment of Mary Jane, I could also be a complete jerk and say that you speak like someone whose never read the comics either. Mary Jane had so many issues of her own besides being a model and actress it's not funny.

It's because I've read the comics that I can say this. I don't mean to be a jerk to you, but your info is second-hand. Sure, eventually they had to give MJ some backbone. But not initially. Gwen had it from day one.

The only time Gwen got issues that I can think of is when her father died and she left for Paris.

That's LONDON. Again, read the comics. And, unlike MJ, Gwen was ready to face danger with Peter without hesitation (see ASMs 103,104, 108,109).

That and the later post-death story where it was revealed she was pregnant with Norman Osborn's babies (god, I hate the story so much.)

Retconning doesn't count. Expecially when it's eleventh hour retconning. JMS intended for the kids to be Peter's. Quesada nixed it at the last minute because children "would age Peter".

 

[Jennifer Walters]

My info is second hand? Do I have to literally take pictures of my ****ing comic collection for you? Sweet jesus! Cause I will so ****ing do it.

It's because I've read the comics that I have my opinion on Gwen and Mary Jane and you have yours. We have two different interpretations of the characters. Just because I don't agree with yours, does not mean I have not read the comics. Please...Dragon, get a ****ing life, before you throw around that someone's not read something.

PS: Also those examples you listed for Gwen? That's being tough. That's not fiery. That's toughness. And it came from having a cop for a dad.

 

[Timstuff]

Spider-man won't be cracking any wise in the reboot. Sony wants this to be a Dark Knight wannabe, set in high school.

 

[Artistsean]

I agree with him for the most part, I loved Spider-Man 1 and 2 and thought the two actors were great.
But
I agree that Tobey was never up to my high expectations. I once mentioned in Figure Painting Class how he was too monotone as Spider-Man and someone said how he was like a mannequin. I thought was was getting better though and I thought he did well in the movies and with what he was given.
But Spider-man never joked around enough for me. I like what Alex Ross had Peter say in Universe X, "In the face of danger make a bad joke, the worse the danger the worse the joke."
Thats how I saw Spider-Man. Also in the comics Spider-Man has often mentioned how he uses his wisecracking as fake bravery to hide that he is actually worried or scared. So it would be nice to cast an actor capable of that charismatic joking.
I also don't want them to cast this with young CW stars.

But
I don't think Dunst's problem was her looks. She could have played the party girl that everyone underestimates, who is actually smart and kind. She just wasn't given that character to play. Her looks weren't the problem, to me. She was also a decent character in 1, but her character was turning into an unlikable one from 2-3. I don't think the solution is a better looking actress, I think it writing the character right.

 

[Artistsean]

I agree with him for the most part, I loved Spider-Man 1 and 2 and thought the two actors were great.
But
I agree that Tobey was never up to my high expectations. I once mentioned in Figure Painting Class how he was too monotone as Spider-Man and someone said how he was like a mannequin. I thought was was getting better though and I thought he did well in the movies and with what he was given.
But Spider-man never joked around enough for me. I like what Alex Ross had Peter say in Universe X, "In the face of danger make a bad joke, the worse the danger the worse the joke."
Thats how I saw Spider-Man. Also in the comics Spider-Man has often mentioned how he uses his wisecracking as fake bravery to hide that he is actually worried or scared. So it would be nice to cast an actor capable of that charismatic joking.
I also don't want them to cast this with young CW stars.

But
I don't think Dunst's problem was her looks. She could have played the party girl that everyone underestimates, who is actually smart and kind. She just wasn't given that character to play. Her looks weren't the problem, to me. She was also a decent character in 1, but her character was turning into an unlikable one from 2-3. I don't think the solution is a better looking actress, I think it writing the character right.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Spider-man won't be cracking any wise in the reboot. Sony wants this to be a Dark Knight wannabe, set in high school.

You seriously believe Sony's going to take everything the character is known for and make him Batman with superpowers in high school? Timstuff, come on, you are smarter than this!

 

[Artistsean]

I agree with him for the most part, I loved Spider-Man 1 and 2 and thought the two actors were great.
But
I agree that Tobey was never up to my high expectations. I once mentioned in Figure Painting Class how he was too monotone as Spider-Man and someone said how he was like a mannequin. I thought was was getting better though and I thought he did well in the movies and with what he was given.
But Spider-man never joked around enough for me. I like what Alex Ross had Peter say in Universe X, "In the face of danger make a bad joke, the worse the danger the worse the joke."
Thats how I saw Spider-Man. Also in the comics Spider-Man has often mentioned how he uses his wisecracking as fake bravery to hide that he is actually worried or scared. So it would be nice to cast an actor capable of that charismatic joking.
I also don't want them to cast this with young CW stars.

But
I don't think Dunst's problem was her looks. She could have played the party girl that everyone underestimates, who is actually smart and kind. She just wasn't given that character to play. Her looks weren't the problem, to me. She was also a decent character in 1, but her character was turning into an unlikable one from 2-3. I don't think the solution is a better looking actress, I think it writing the character right.

 

[DACrowe]

I agree that recasting both characters could lead to better results. A different styled screenplay is also needed. With that said Tobey Maguire still gave a very internalized and charismatic in an introverted way performance that made him so sympathetic and endearing (and lovable) to audiences in all three films, as opposed to the typical lead in a summer movie (be that the traditional Will Smith, Tom Cruise route or the quirky Shia LaBeouf route).

So I will not criticize him too much. Even if I think he and the writers missed the smartass that is a major angle to the character. With all that said and done, I won't defend Dunst too much beyond that she had good chemistry with Tobey. Otherwise there isn't much to say.


As for comic MJ vs. Gwen. Gwen had the misfortune of being killed off at a time when the love interests were one note. Though she was entertaining, MJ--who was also one note until the end of ASM #122--was far more entertaining. Most people prefer the bad girl in love triangles, so they killed off the duller one for story resonance and left a void. In that void they developed MJ very well over 15+ years to the point where most liked the idea of Peter marrying her. The marriage has been handled poorly by Marvel, but I would say most fans, myself included, loved it and when it worked it was great. But Marvel couldn't age Peter anymore and keep him as a comic book hero, so they 86-ed MJ and I quit reading the book because how they handled it.

But I'm just rambling now. Indeed.

 

[DACrowe]

I agree that recasting both characters could lead to better results. A different styled screenplay is also needed. With that said Tobey Maguire still gave a very internalized and charismatic in an introverted way performance that made him so sympathetic and endearing (and lovable) to audiences in all three films, as opposed to the typical lead in a summer movie (be that the traditional Will Smith, Tom Cruise route or the quirky Shia LaBeouf route).

So I will not criticize him too much. Even if I think he and the writers missed the smartass that is a major angle to the character. With all that said and done, I won't defend Dunst too much beyond that she had good chemistry with Tobey. Otherwise there isn't much to say.


As for comic MJ vs. Gwen. Gwen had the misfortune of being killed off at a time when the love interests were one note. Though she was entertaining, MJ--who was also one note until the end of ASM #122--was far more entertaining. Most people prefer the bad girl in love triangles, so they killed off the duller one for story resonance and left a void. In that void they developed MJ very well over 15+ years to the point where most liked the idea of Peter marrying her. The marriage has been handled poorly by Marvel, but I would say most fans, myself included, loved it and when it worked it was great. But Marvel couldn't age Peter anymore and keep him as a comic book hero, so they 86-ed MJ and I quit reading the book because how they handled it.

But I'm just rambling now. Indeed.

 

[spider-neil]

the problems conway lists is script/screen play.

as for dunsts looks I have no idea what happened to her but I remember having no problem with her when she was cast. watct SM1 again she is pretty hot, her problem is she spent too muh time in the crack dens

 

[spider-neil]

look at SSM, josh keaton does a great job in and out of costume but if wiseman didn't write wisecracks then keaton wouldn't wisecrack, it really is that simple.

 

[Cosmic]

I have the utmost respect for Maguire and Dunst in regards to their talent. But their casting never worked for me...not for a minute. I've always felt that the Raimi movies absolutely butchered Spider-Man. It could be so much better if they would actually use the characters the way they are portrayed in those early stories, instead of trying to change things around to suit their own personal agenda.

As for Gwen Stacy, I have to say...I've never understood the bloodlust for this character. I think killing her was a huge mistake...a lowdown, CHEAP gimmick...and bringing her back was one of the biggest, nastiest, steaming piles of crap I've ever seen from Marvel. I hope that the new crew for the reboot will NOT "kill off" this character, and I hope they'll make a more serious effort to portray all of the characters more faithfully to the comics that made all of this possible.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Marvel's never brought Gwen back in full. She's stayed dead. They wanted to bring her back with One More Day at the end, but all the braintrust shouted no, because they thought it was stupid.

 

[Dragon]

My info is second hand? Do I have to literally take pictures of my ****ing comic collection for you? Sweet jesus! Cause I will so ****ing do it.

I never said you didn't have the comics. i said you need to read them.

It's because I've read the comics that I have my opinion on Gwen and Mary Jane and you have yours. We have two different interpretations of the characters. Just because I don't agree with yours, does not mean I have not read the comics. Please...Dragon, get a ****ing life, before you throw around that someone's not read something.

I'm not going based on opinion. I'm going based on fact. The points I'm bringing up actually happened, and I'm giving examples of them and where they happened. Do you want me to give page and panel numbers as well?

PS: Also those examples you listed for Gwen? That's being tough. That's not fiery. That's toughness. And it came from having a cop for a dad.

Nonsense. Taking a punch and then returning one is toughness. For a woman, initiating the conflict is fiery. And it doesn't matter who her father was. Having someone brave in your family doesn't give YOU courage. I'm also curious as to your examples of this for MJ, particularly when Gwen was still around.