Conan

[nephron]

Oh, this is for the people who didn't like me comparing real-life people to Conan. Here's some wholly fictional characters for whom race matters (one of 'em's an obscure comic-book character, but he's the only entirely fictional American Indian I could think of that meets the criteria for the point I want to make who wasn't Tanto):

Shaft & Wyatt Wingfoot.

Shaft is a black guy. The character was intended from the start to be a black guy. His ethnicity matters.

Same with Wyatt Wingfoot. It would be absurd if they ever made a Fantastic Four movie without getting a bona fide American Indian actor to play Wyatt Wingfoot.

Conan's like that. His ethnicity is an important part of the character.

 

[Asgard]

Ok, so answer this, if they had cast a white guy who was not of Irish descent youd still be angry at the decision?

 

[nephron]

So if they cast a white guy who's not Irish in the least youd still be angry too right?

Does this hypothetical actor look Gaelic? Does he look like how Howard described Conan? If so, then that would be cool.

Momoa is neither.

He looks like exactly what he is - a very pretty half-white/half Hawaain. Doesn't look pure northern European, be it Irish, Scottish, Scandinavian, or Germanic.

Aside from that, the guy's in good shape, but he's a far cry from "massive", which is what Conan's supposed to be. If any one of us saw Momoa in real life, would our first thought be "Holy $h!t, that is the scariest, most intense and dangerous looking person I've ever seen!". No. It would probably be "Damn. I gotta keep my girlfriend away from him. That is a handsome man."

EDIT: No, the ideal actor for Conan wouldn't have to be from Ireland, or even from immediate Celtic heritage, as long as he looks it. Same as if they made a samurai movie - as long as the lead looked like he could come from Japan, it'd be cool. Momoa just doesn't look like he could be a pure-blooded Celt.

 

[Asgard]

Why would it be cool to you if the guy "looks" Gaelic and not of actual Irish descent? I mean you said:

The Cimmerians are Gaels, and Gaels are Cimmerians. Conan's racial status as a Cimmerian was an important part of the character

If being Cimmerian/Gaelic/Irish is important to the character you should also have a problem with them just casting some white guy who's not even Irish, and less of a problem with them casting a guy who actually IS part Irish.

What does a Gaelic person look like anyway aside from white skin.

The muscles issue is moot. That can be fixed with diet and training. The other two actors up for the role dont look particularly big either.

 

[nephron]

Why would it be cool to you if the guy "looks" Gaelic and not of actual Irish descent? I mean you said:

If being Cimmerian/Gaelic/Irish is important to the character you should also have a problem with them just casting some white guy who's not even Irish, and less of a problem with them casting a guy who actually IS part Irish.

What does a Gaelic person look like anyway aside from white skin.

The muscles issue is moot. That can be fixed with diet and training. The other two actors up for the role dont look particularly big either.

For the same reason it's ok for them not to use real, sharpened swords as long as the swords look real. Make sense?

 

[Project862006]

What does a Gaelic person look like?

 

[DarKJediKnight]

Fan made poster:

Spoiler

 

[nephron]

What does a Gaelic person look like?

White. What do you think a Gaelic person looks like?

Momoa's obviously not of pure-blooded European descent. That's part of the reason they cast him as Khal Drogo for Game of Thrones, and he should be awesome in it. I can totally see him as Drogo. I can buy that.

I just can't buy him as a Cimmerian, any more than I could buy Lou Diamond Phillips as King Arthur, but Phillips made a good Chavez in Young Guns.

If this Conan movie is an example of a production doing everything wrong, from the script to the casting, then Game of Thrones production is doing everything right. It's just a TV series, but it's going to blow this silly Conan movie away. And Momoa's in it, and casting him as Drogo made perfect sense & I'm completely behind it. Momoa's cool, it just doesn't make any sense to cast him as a Cimmerian, any more than casting Lou Diamond Phillips as a medieval English knight.

 

[Asgard]

For the same reason it's ok for them not to use real, sharpened swords as long as the swords look real. Make sense?

I see. So all this stuff you posted about Robert E Howard creating an Irish hero in Conan and how his heritage as a Cimmerian/Gaelic really doesnt matter to you. Just as long as the guy is white, then its all right.

Every time you post something about how being Cimmerian or Irish is important to the character, all you really mean is, having white skin.

 

[nephron]

I see. So all this stuff you posted about Robert E Howard creating an Irish hero in Conan and how his heritage as a Cimmerian/Gaelic really doesnt matter to you. Just as long as the guy is white, then its all right.

Every time you post something about how being Cimmerian or Irish is important to the character, all you really mean is, having white skin.

Basically.

So what?

Forrest Whitaker isn't Ugandan, but being black is kind of important if you're going to portray Idi Amin. Rain is Korean, not Japanese, but he can pass for Japanese, so he's ok as a ninja.

I don't care if the guns in a movie are real guns, so long as they look like real guns. I don't care if the actor is Irish, so long as he's got the right look, and part of a person's looks is their ethnicity.

Conan's a Cimmerian.

Cimmerians are Gaels.

Gaels are white.

The actor should physically resemble the character, and part of a persons appearance is their ethnicity. Are you suggesting it's not?

Again, there's some characters for whom race is irrelevant. For others, it does matter. Conan is a character for whom race matters. Like Shaft.

Aside from looking like a white guy, Conan needs to be huge, mean-looking, weathered & tanned. Momoa's got a tan, but in every other way he's wrong for the part.

 

[nephron]

I see. So all this stuff you posted about Robert E Howard creating an Irish hero in Conan and how his heritage as a Cimmerian/Gaelic really doesnt matter to you. Just as long as the guy is white, then its all right.

Every time you post something about how being Cimmerian or Irish is important to the character, all you really mean is, having white skin.

I love how you phrase that. "all you really mean is, having white skin" - as if there's something wrong with having white skin. Like it's bad or something. "How dare you suggest that a white character be played by an actor with white skin! That's a horrible thing to say!"

Y'know what, man? I've been responding to everything you've said & asked. How about you start addressing and acknowledging some of my points? Because it's clear you're trying to set up a position where you can say "AHA! GOTCHA YOU RACIST!"

So how about you respond to the following points and questions:

1. Are there some characters for whom race is an important aspect of the character?

2. Is Conan one of them? If no, how do you square that with everything Robert E. Howard wrote about the character?

3. Would it make sense to cast someone who wasn't black to play Shaft or Luke Cage?

4. Would it make sense to cast Lou Diamond Phillips as a medieval European knight? His father was part Scottish & Irish, but regardless, does he look like he could be a medieval knight?

5.What would you think about the casting for the lead role in a samurai movie set in feudal Japan where the lead doesn't even really look Japanese (because he's not)?

6. What are your thoughts on David Carridine playing a "chinaman"? Do you think, if they were to remake/re-imagine/reboot Kung Fu (as either a new series or film), it would be better to cast an Asian?

7. If you think ethnic looks do not matter in the case of Conan, but your answer to the question 3 is "no", "yes" to 4, "That would be silly" to 5, and "of course they should. They only cast David Carradine because he was white - Bruce Lee should've starred in Kung Fu" to 6,......why? Explain the disparity.

 

[T'Jai]

Celts don't tan

 

[nephron]

Celts don't tan

Tell it to Pierce Brosnan (Irish) or Catherine Zeta-Jones (Welsh).

 

[Wolfman]

I'm just going to keep posting this, because it's so good.

If he looks like that in the movie, how can you complain? He fits for the role. Maybe they scouted all the celtic looking actor/models out there, but Jason was still the best they could get. Well, obviously, since they didn't hire some celt. I really can't understand why Jason Hawaiin heritage bothers some people so much, because it really does not matter in this case.

 

[Heretic]

Let's see...white skin...Celtic...massively built.

Clearly this was a job for WWE champion Sheamus.

 

[nephron]

I'm just going to keep posting this, because it's so good.

If he looks like that in the movie, how can you complain? He fits for the role. Maybe they scouted all the celtic looking actor/models out there, but Jason was still the best they could get. Well, obviously, since they didn't hire some celt. I really can't understand why Jason Hawaiin heritage bothers some people so much, because it really does not matter in this case.

If he looks like that in the movie, then I'll restrict myself to complaining about the all the other ******ed things they did to Howard's work. It is a good pic, but it's just one pic someone photoshopped in about 10 minutes. There's no way the guy's going to look like that in the finished film. I might be wrong, and if I am, well, that would be awesome, but I sincerely doubt it. He's still going to look like a Hawaain guy with contacts and a wig - assuming they opt to give him black hair and blue eyes, which they probably won't.

As for why he got the job, it has nothing to do with them auditioning tons and tons of people. It's because he's already worked with the director. They had 3, count 'em 3 people in the running, and the director convinced them to pick Momoa.

This director, by the way, is not a Howard fan. He hasn't given any indication he's read Conan, and judging by his answers given in interviews, it's a safe bet he never has. Nispel doesn't care one way or the other if Momoa in any way reflects Howard's vision for Conan. It's "Conan the Barbarian" all over again.

As for why his "Hawaiin heritage bothers me so much" - read my other posts. I explain it extensively.

The short version is: His heritage doesn't bother me at all. Momoa's playing Khal Drogo in the Game of Thrones series, & he's a good choice - for that role.

He's a dumb choice for Conan though. Momoa looks... exotic...like maybe he's half-white/half-Hawaiin (cuz he is!) or something. Conan's a white guy. Racial issues aside, he's not big enough, and he's not in any way threatening-looking. The guy is just horrible choice to play Conan.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Before he was cast as Wolverine in the first X-Men, I seriously doubt you would have seen Hugh Jackman and say "that should be Wolverine". Jackman is tall, Wolverine should be very short. Jackman is very handsome, Wolverine should be more fascinatingly ugly like Mickey Rourke,`Charles Bronson, or Tommy Lee Jones. Wolverine should also be scary-looking or deeply intense. Jackman looks like the world's nicest being. And yet, Jackman pulled it off. So let's give Momoa the chance.

Hm... Jackman didn't.

 

[Wolfman]

This director, by the way, is not a Howard fan. He hasn't given any indication he's read Conan, and judging by his answers given in interviews, it's a safe bet he never has. Nispel doesn't care one way or the other if Momoa in any way reflects Howard's vision for Conan. It's "Conan the Barbarian" all over again.


He's a dumb choice for Conan though. Momoa looks... exotic...like maybe he's half-white/half-Hawaiin (cuz he is!) or something. Conan's a white guy. Racial issues aside, he's not big enough, and he's not in any way threatening-looking. The guy is just horrible choice to play Conan.

We'll just have to disagree on the case of Momoa, then. But I do agree that Marcus Nispel is not a good sign for this movie. Only good film he's done was Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake. Rest of his movies have been bad. But if the script is good, he might just pull it off. But that's wishful thinking.

About Momoa though... how can you say he's not big enough? He's ATLEAST 6'3". And if we take wikipedia's word, he's up to 6'5". And he can always gain some mass to make himself wider.

 

[TheWrathOfGod]

It should have been Roland Kickinger because Arnold is awesome.

 

[Wolfman]

Hm... Jackman didn't.

Yeah... he's a good actor and a nice guy - aparently - but Wolverine he is not. Too tall. In fact, now with all these reboots going on, they should reboot X-Men. Give some colour to they're costumes next time. I wouldn't mind. Out of topic a bit, sorry about this.

 

[Nivek]

It should have been Roland Kickinger because Arnold is awesome.

Hell.


No.


How many times do people have to hear that Arnold didn't really look like Conan?

 

[CGHulk]

There are fans who like the look of Arnold Schwarzenegger's Conan, him being white! Then there's the way Conan is supposed to look! Just look at these Frank Frazetta paintings!

See! Conan isn't supposed to look white!

 

[JAK®]

Conan as presented in those images doesn't look Gaelic/Celtic at all. In fact, he is almost the opposite. Celts are light-skinned, light-haired, light-eyed and have weak facial features.

So I don't know why people are complaining about the actor not looking Celtic, as the character himself never has.

 

[Ratcrawler]

This just in; Chris Hemsworth backs out as Thor due to scheduling conflict. Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson in talks to replace him.

 

[ChickenScratch]

There are fans who like the look of Arnold Schwarzenegger's Conan, him being white! Then there's the way Conan is supposed to look! Just look at these Frank Frazetta paintings!

See! Conan isn't supposed to look white!

I could have never imagined race would become such a huge issue even after casting a white actor, because when I look at Jason that's what I see, a tanned white guy who's pretty close to REH's physical description. With the addition of contacts, a wig and a couple months of training to look more cut.

Those paintings are cool, reminds me of my grandfather and uncles, and I'm Indian by the way.