Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Coulson Lives! (the Clark Gregg aka Phil Coulson thread)

[Mysteryman]

I really cant understand why everyone is so quick to jump to the conclusion that Coulson isnt human.

 

[TheVileOne]

I really cant understand why everyone is so quick to jump to the conclusion that Coulson isnt human.

The muscle memory! He has none!

 

[Xeno]

Phil's lack of muscle memory is down to the effects of the hideous medical experimentation and/or horrific necromancy that was performed on his corpse to revive him.

 

[Just_Human]

Phil is obviously Ultron

He is the one who motivated them in Avengers, but thy will have to face him in AOU.
That's why he didnt die
Ultron is almost impossible to destroy

Also Coulson wont be in AOU, because he is Ultron


Ok Im bored

 

[gildedmuse]

yes, these are the two big problems that I see with most theories. first why hide it from him, second, where does it take anything?

It's gotta be that there was circumstances surrounding his death and ressurection or whatever that are just too horrible to remember. And maybe SHIELD doesn't even entirely know what those things are, they just know that they had to do this to his memory. I think it definitely should be something that SHIELD doesn't entirely understand, and that they are kinda keeping half an eye on him cuz they don't know what the hell happened really.

Becuz another good point you make, is I don't see why Fury would be so set on bringing him back anyway. it's SHIELD, people die. Even if it's magic, and saying SHIELD somehow knew of some person that could do this, why would they even feel it had to be done?

So I think it's gonna turn out to be something that he popped up back from the dead, and SHIELD had to like catch him and and basically wipe his memory, reprogram him with false memories and then put him right back into rotation? that's the part where that kinda falls apart I guess. :

Haha, no I totally follow you. My mind was going down the exact same path. "Something that they are worried for Coulson to find out so... so what if they don't know what will happen if he find out because what if they don't fully understand! But then why would Fury risk all that to bring back Coulson unless -- Maybe they didn't set out to resurrect Coulson! Maybe it's something outside SHIELD and their control and that's why Coulson can't know! Like.... Like.. Um, like... Nope. Got nothing."

If you take out LMDs Clones ,Androids, shapeshifting, aliens and the idea that he was healed by magic, Asgardians or sorcerers,
Whats left?
I am just curious about other possibilities .

Who, me? Oh, no no no. I'm an lit major. I explain what stuff means AFTER it happens. Prediction and prophecies is a whole 'nother department, I'm afraid.

Uh, deal with Mephisto? No, sorry, I panicked and just blurted literally the stupidest possible thing that came to mind.

Honestly, any of the above offered solutions could still work provided they make it believable. These are just some of the problems the writers need to address in order to really sell this little miracle. It's comic book based; there are literally a dozen different ways to resurrect a guy, but it's got to be something that fits the internal logic of the show.

Right now a big part of the mystery is the catch that Coulson can never be made aware of what really happened. Also, it's likely that thousands of lives were lost during the Battle of New York including more than a few SHIELD agents and while Coulson's death was upsetting, from what we see of those last moments he appears to fully accept it. There has to be some reason as to why Coulson was brought back. If he is so "unexpendable" to SHIELD than why can't he be trusted to know the process behind his recovery (especially since, while not common knowledge, we know of at least two other members of SHIELD who are aware of what really happened).

At the moment it appears that Fury approved experimental resurrection on Coulson just because he is Fury's "good eye" and yet despite being a high-ranking, trusted member of SHIELD who fully participated in phase II and was willing to die for the cause he isn't cleared to know about the situation that brought him back. Are they afraid? Will it have negative consequences? It's apparently peachy keen for him to know that he died. Isn't THAT typically the traumatic part?

 

[gildedmuse]

Coulson been a synthetic human this whole time. So he died fighting Loki, just like he's died other times in the past. and they took him and recycled him just like they've done times in the past.
The synthetic human only since he died fighting Loki just doesn't work.
for all the reasons we've talked about here.

If it's a case of a cyborg or synthetic man or multiple LMDs or life prolonging serum and Coulson has actually been "alive" for decades then wouldn't they try to avoid telling him that he'd died and come back to life seeing as that is apparently the norm for him? Just seems like that could cause some identity issues or even just possible trigger memories and if you're trying to conceal his true nature these seem like possible considerations. Plus it'd seem awkward that we'd only get our first hints of this now since it would have been true for the whole MCU.

All these theories of Coulson being older than expected/having gone through multiple deaths could possibly contradicted his appearance in the Avengers. It just raises questions like: if he's a synthetic man why the sudden limp and possible lose of muscle memory? If he's died and recovered successfully before why does he need to get proper rest? If this is all old hat for him then why all these sudden new syndromes? If he's been "tested" in the field some 60 years why would worry over him now especially if you're the type of doctor who isn't also secretly a mechanic?

Plus his death during Avengers. I'm willing to over look Fury's reaction, because his Fury and who knows, but when Hill hears the news she appears honestly upset and we know that she knows his dark secret. Hill isn't going to dismiss a medic tending her out of shock when she hears a robot has gone down.

Besides it just seems awkward if in all those times we've seen Phil we never got hint at false/implanted memoirs like Tahiti or other SHIELD members treat him oddly. Sure, in real life that's because they filmed all that before AoS, but it seems like a pretty big over sight to add all of that stuff in big, obvious ways and then attempt to retcon it so that he's always been this was.

 

[Silvermoon]

Phil's lack of muscle memory is down to the effects of the hideous medical experimentation and/or horrific necromancy that was performed on his corpse to revive him.

I love this gif.... I loved that scene!!!

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

It's apparently peachy keen for him to know that he died. Isn't THAT typically the traumatic part?

yes, but he had plenty of time to get over it in Tahiti. A magical place, I believe.

 

[Destructus86]

The reason I don't buy into the cloning theory is because...why just Coulson? Surely other SHIELD agents have died for the cause...they could be cloned too. I suppose the same could be said for LMD...but maybe not. Since that would get expensive.

I guess i'll stick with my original idea. Some sort of alien tech was used to bring him back from the dead, this muscle memory thing could be part of the side effect.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The reason I don't buy into the cloning theory is because...why just Coulson? Surely other SHIELD agents have died for the cause...they could be cloned too. I suppose the same could be said for LMD...but maybe not. Since that would get expensive.

I guess i'll stick with my original idea. Some sort of alien tech was used to bring him back from the dead, this muscle memory thing could be part of the side effect.

I too believe that alien tech brought him back from the dead.

 

[Just_Human]

Or is it possible that there was something in that blue thingy in Loki's scepter that prevented him from dying ?

 

[eplo]

A theory I have seen posted elsewhere is that it is a clone. They don't want to tell him that because then he would think that if he isn't really Coulson, who is he? That would make him doubt himself because he wouldn't have really done what he remembers.​

The part that makes me wonder the most is that they don't want him to find out. If he was resurrected, why would it matter if he found out. I think he isn't the original Coulson because that is the only way I can see him caring about how it is that he got to live because he isn't the real him.​

 

[Silvermoon]

A theory I have seen posted elsewhere is that it is a clone. They don't want to tell him that because then he would think that if he isn't really Coulson, who is he? That would make him doubt himself because he wouldn't have really done what he remembers.​

The part that makes me wonder the most is that they don't want him to find out. If he was resurrected, why would it matter if he found out. I think he isn't the original Coulson because that is the only way I can see him caring about how it is that he got to live because he isn't the real him.​

IMO, I think there are a couple options, if it was some form of dark magic (that had a nasty price attached to it) I think he would take issue with that. If SHIELD used alien tech left from the Chitauri to bring him back, the race that tried to take over the earth and all that, I could see him having issues there. I think there are options out there other than just LMD or clone.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Phil Coulson in Lego Marvel Superheroes:

 

[Infinity9999x]

IMO, I think there are a couple options, if it was some form of dark magic (that had a nasty price attached to it) I think he would take issue with that. If SHIELD used alien tech left from the Chitauri to bring him back, the race that tried to take over the earth and all that, I could see him having issues there. I think there are options out there other than just LMD or clone.

If Shield had to bargain with someone who was less than trustworthy (an enemy of some sort) in order to bring Coulson back I don't think Coulson would like that either.

 

[Nathan]

I hope they'll give us a good explanation why Coulson is around. I doubt they'd go the dark magic route. Allies die all the time, and even if they are good friends like Coulson, I can't see them go through such lengths, to make a deal with a shady entity, in order to bring Coulson back.

 

[wobbly]

Thats asssuming its shield that did it....

How about the mysterious Cellist? Personal motive there for a desperate
deal perhaps?

 

[Xeno]

Phil Coulson in Lego Marvel Superheroes:

Here he is with his Captain America trading card. Phil is such a fanboy.

 

[Shazam]

Haha, no I totally follow you. My mind was going down the exact same path. "Something that they are worried for Coulson to find out so... so what if they don't know what will happen if he find out because what if they don't fully understand! But then why would Fury risk all that to bring back Coulson unless -- Maybe they didn't set out to resurrect Coulson! Maybe it's something outside SHIELD and their control and that's why Coulson can't know! Like.... Like.. Um, like... Nope. Got nothing."



Who, me? Oh, no no no. I'm an lit major. I explain what stuff means AFTER it happens. Prediction and prophecies is a whole 'nother department, I'm afraid.

Uh, deal with Mephisto? No, sorry, I panicked and just blurted literally the stupidest possible thing that came to mind.

Honestly, any of the above offered solutions could still work provided they make it believable. These are just some of the problems the writers need to address in order to really sell this little miracle. It's comic book based; there are literally a dozen different ways to resurrect a guy, but it's got to be something that fits the internal logic of the show.

Right now a big part of the mystery is the catch that Coulson can never be made aware of what really happened. Also, it's likely that thousands of lives were lost during the Battle of New York including more than a few SHIELD agents and while Coulson's death was upsetting, from what we see of those last moments he appears to fully accept it. There has to be some reason as to why Coulson was brought back. If he is so "unexpendable" to SHIELD than why can't he be trusted to know the process behind his recovery (especially since, while not common knowledge, we know of at least two other members of SHIELD who are aware of what really happened).

At the moment it appears that Fury approved experimental resurrection on Coulson just because he is Fury's "good eye" and yet despite being a high-ranking, trusted member of SHIELD who fully participated in phase II and was willing to die for the cause he isn't cleared to know about the situation that brought him back. Are they afraid? Will it have negative consequences? It's apparently peachy keen for him to know that he died. Isn't THAT typically the traumatic part?

Believable?? What is that really?? We just watched an episode where an 18-wheeler was just lifted in the air by a gravity beam or something. This show is a spin-off of a superhero movie......

I don't care if its believable because none of this is.....

I just hope its a good story. It's fantasy.

 

[gildedmuse]

Believable?? What is that really?? We just watched an episode where an 18-wheeler was just lifted in the air by a gravity beam or something. This show is a spin-off of a superhero movie......

I don't care if its believable because none of this is.....

I just hope its a good story. It's fantasy.

Not believable as in realistic. Believable within the context of the story. If it turns out that Coulson was resurrected because Fury wished it hard enough and their is a magical fairy who grants the wishes of those who just believe hard enough it won't matter if the movie had a giant green monster beating up aliens, it would be a disaster.

Part of telling a good story is the world building you do and your ability to maintain internal logical. If the solution seems to come from nowhere and doesn't flow naturally from what information we're given before hand then it doesn't come off as believable. The above wishing based scenario works in something like Peter Pan because it flows naturally from the world created in the novel. When I ask for believability what I'm really asking for is good writing.

 

[wobbly]

The reason I don't buy into the cloning theory is because...why just Coulson? Surely other SHIELD agents have died for the cause...they could be cloned too. I suppose the same could be said for LMD...but maybe not. Since that would get expensive.

I guess i'll stick with my original idea. Some sort of alien tech was used to bring him back from the dead, this muscle memory thing could be part of the side effect.

Ok, pure theory time:

Although illegal, Cloning a human might well have been attempted by Shield, but the key thing for using it to restore a deceased agent would be the ability to transfer the memory & experience laden mind/consciousness from the dead body to the 'blank' copy (otherwise, what's the point?)

Shield might well have attempted it before with limited or even disastrous results (insane resurrectees, or zombie like ones perhaps), possibly due to the unavoidable problems with brain degradation after death (it's not like they'd have a fresh clone all ready to swap him over with after all, so the deceased brain would have to be kept either on ice or otherwise preserved while the new body is prepped). So while they still have the process available to them, it's not something they have pursued because it's never worked.

Until Coulson....If so, why did it work with him, and why wouldn't they be able to do it again for any future dead agents?

Maybe because of the alien tech that was used to kill him: Loki's spear was also a mind control device activated by being pressed against a subjects chest/heart and 'infecting' them, which is why it didn't affect Stark as his reactor was in the way.

Perhaps some of that power made it's way into Coulson, indirectly infecting him, as the thing did directly pierce his heart. That may have been the necessary component (that they cant replicate without the cube) to make the mind transfer process to a cloned body successful. It somehow kept his brain from degrading allowing a full consciousness swap to work (the medics handling his corpse may have detected active brain function and once fury was made aware he made the call to 'send in the clone').

So why hide all this from him? Well, it's also possible when Couslon was first revived the knowledge of what really happened and what he is now made him have a breakdown (it would be a big thing to take in when you think about it. Would you think yourself 'real', nothing but a copy, or what?). To get him over the breakdown they decided to brainwash the truth out of him, leaving him with a fake memory of reviving in ICU and Tahiti instead.

So, for the moment Coulson is human, and thinks he is the real deal. But as his lack of muscle memory issue showed, the clues are there that it isn't his original body.

Maybe...

Anyone's guess is as good as another at the moment.

 

[Just_Human]

Thats asssuming its shield that did it....

How about the mysterious Cellist? Personal motive there for a desperate
deal perhaps?

wanda saved Phison t:

 

[gildedmuse]

So why hide all this from him? Well, it's also possible when Couslon was first revived the knowledge of what really happened and what he is now made him have a breakdown (it would be a big thing to take in when you think about it. Would you think yourself 'real', nothing but a copy, or what?). To get him over the breakdown they decided to brainwash the truth out of him, leaving him with a fake memory of reviving in ICU and Tahiti instead.

You know, I have to say that regardless of the method behind his resurrection this part right here makes a lot of sense. Say that after initially bringing him back Coulson suffers from a major breakdown. Maybe it's the knowledge of whatever SHIELD did makes him despondent, even angry. Maybe it's something else, somehow they just brought him back wrong. What do you do after that? The damage has already been done, you can't "undo" a resurrection (not without murdering the guy). So you wipe his memories and hide the truth. Yeah, I can totally see that. I don't really like the "thumbs up" smiley so here, have Storm instead:

Beyond simply making sense it would follow a common Whedon motif. The man has a reputation for killing off characters but, really, death in Joss's work is only slightly more permanent than in comic books. Running through Buffy and Angel is a theme of resurrection at a cost and how death changes people.

I mean, obviously the topic is going to come up when your standard baddies are vampires. When someone comes back as a vampire their soul is gone and in it's place is a demon with all their memories and mannerisms but none of the humanity. Fred, a character on Angel, experienced a similar fate but with an ancient godlike being taking control of her body. Even when a person is returned to their body (almost always through the use of black magic) the results are never quite right. When Dawn attempts to revive her mother, the show hints that whatever almost walked through the door the moment before she cuts off the spell would have been dark and horrible, nothing like Joyce. And, of course, the biggest example would be Buffy herself whose friends bring her back with the best of intentions, but who believes that she's being punished; banished from paradise. Plus there is the whole "not quite human" mystery after she comes back and is susceptible to things that should only effect demons.

Arg, sorry, I got majorly sidelined there just listing some of the deaths, but my point is that I think your idea is a pretty good guess as it sounds like the kind of thing Whedon might do.

 

[C. Lee]

Earlier today I rewatched the third episode. Did anyone else notice that the gravity machine seemed to effect Coulson more than the professor when they were in the room next to it? When it would do a gravity wave, the professor would stumble but Coulson would be completely knocked off his feet. Maybe it effected the metal in his new robot body?

 

[Silvermoon]

‘S.H.I.E.L.D.’ Star Clark Gregg Teases Coulson’s ‘Magical’ Recovery (Video)

“There’s a much darker, more interesting story there,” he told King. “Something much more magical has gone on to bring this guy back to life.”

He later stated the obvious, “I know more than the audience, but less than the writers.”

let the speculation continue