CW's airport battle vs BvS' Batman and Superman fight

[titansupes]

^ Beginning of his fight against Batman. He rips a sewer cover in two and destroys them.

 

[psylockolussus]

Airport Fighters!

The other one had me yawning!

 

[Consona]

That moment alone, when Batman starts to destroy the hall columns with Superman's lifeless body was better then any let's play with a plastic toys airport brawl moment (And I think that fight is actually great, probably the best saturday morning cartoon fight rendered into live action sequence). YMMV. (I just feel the Bruce's deranged feeling of relieve and fulfilment when he destroys those columns with Superman on the rope. t: )

I just rewatched BvS fight, sooo awesome.

I loved the moment Supes lands from this fall

you can totally feel the impact, it hurts me for Superman every time. t:

And this sequence, so rough how Batman treats Superman.

My other favorite moment is when Batman smashed the sink over Supes' head. t:

I loved the dynamics of the fight when kryptonite starts to work and when the effect starts to fade away.

This was pretty funny.

Shame I cannot find the gif where Batman starts to back off with that "oh s**t, I'm screwed" look on his face. Hehe.

So many great moments there...

Feels so impactful.


And the Batman's lines "You are not brave. Men and brave ...it's time you learn what it means to be a man"... "You were never a god. You were never even a man!" Love those.

SPOILERS
I think it's hard to compare those two. Airport fight is saturday morning cartoon fun ride shot in a rather non-hurtful way, BvS fight is "I wanna break you, you mother****ing alien bastard, because I wanna compensate for my obssessive fears and anger and feelings of powerlessness and..." It would be more appropriate to compare the Bucky + Steve vs Tony fight, it's much more dramatic, Steve knew what happened, that's big (dunno why Tony did not with all his resources after all those year, but that's off-topic), Bucky killed Tony's parents, that's big too (I really dislike the fact he was brainwashed, which rather negates the whole point), but at least stakes are much higher and interesting than in airport fight, which is more of a show off. Some moments of S+B vs T feel non-hurtful too, like when Bucky gets kicked by Tony's Mark XLVI armor's boot right into teeth and everything's ok (is supersoldier serum that awesome? t, but some moments are really strong, especially when Cap has Tony on his back. (I've just found this interesting comment:
"At the end. When Cap has Tony on his back. When he has ripped the helmet off and exposed the bleeding mess of Tony’s face. When he lifts the shield for the killing blow. When Tony raises his hands to protect himself. Tony still has power. And his hands are free. Bucky may have attempted to remove the arc but he didn’t fully succeed and those repulsors are live. Cap is so blind with rage he doesn’t even register Tony raising his hands. And yet, Tony doesn’t fire. He has the perfect shot. And he doesn’t fire."
*http://starkwest.tumblr.com/post/144228750916/at-the-end-when-cap-has-tony-on-his-back-when-he)
But BvS fight is still about something else, it's about deranged person, it's beyond normal fear or anger, I think Bruce in this film really is a mentally ill person, in some ways, because some of his manners actually make complete sense even though they seem crazy. You can see Superman wants to talk to Batman but he just notices there's no way he can normally speak with him so he thinks it's would be easier to beat some breath out of him so he'll finally listen but he does not know about kryptonite so that's where things became more complicated. But what's great is the fight does not end with anybody beaten, but actually with a huge redemption of titular characters, that's fantastic, I love it so much.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

God, that fight was awful.

 

[idiot09]

That moment alone, when Batman starts to destroy the hall columns with Superman's lifeless body was better then any let's play with a plastic toys airport brawl moment (And I think that fight is actually great, probably the best saturday morning cartoon fight rendered into live action sequence). YMMV. (I just feel the Bruce's deranged feeling of relieve and fulfilment when he destroys those columns with Superman on the rope. t: )

I just rewatched BvS fight, sooo awesome.

I loved the moment Supes lands from this fall

you can totally feel the impact, it hurts me for Superman every time. t:

And this sequence, so rough how Batman treats Superman.

My other favorite moment is when Batman smashed the sink over Supes' head. t:

I loved the dynamics of the fight when kryptonite starts to work and when the effect starts to fade away.

This was pretty funny.

Shame I cannot find the gif where Batman starts to back off with that "oh s**t, I'm screwed" look on his face. Hehe.

So many great moments there...

Feels so impactful.


And the Batman's lines "You are not brave. Men and brave ...it's time you learn what it means to be a man"... "You were never a god. You were never even a man!" Love those.

SPOILERS
I think it's hard to compare those two. Airport fight is saturday morning cartoon fun ride shot in a rather non-hurtful way, BvS fight is "I wanna break you, you mother****ing alien bastard, because I wanna compensate for my obssessive fears and anger and feelings of powerlessness and..." It would be more appropriate to compare the Bucky + Steve vs Tony fight, it's much more dramatic, Steve knew what happened, that's big (dunno why Tony did not with all his resources after all those year, but that's off-topic), Bucky killed Tony's parents, that's big too (I really dislike the fact he was brainwashed, which rather negates the whole point), but at least stakes are much higher and interesting than in airport fight, which is more of a show off. Some moments of S+B vs T feel non-hurtful too, like when Bucky gets kicked by Tony's Mark XLVI armor's boot right into teeth and everything's ok (is supersoldier serum that awesome? t, but some moments are really strong, especially when Cap has Tony on his back. (I've just found this interesting comment:
"At the end. When Cap has Tony on his back. When he has ripped the helmet off and exposed the bleeding mess of Tony’s face. When he lifts the shield for the killing blow. When Tony raises his hands to protect himself. Tony still has power. And his hands are free. Bucky may have attempted to remove the arc but he didn’t fully succeed and those repulsors are live. Cap is so blind with rage he doesn’t even register Tony raising his hands. And yet, Tony doesn’t fire. He has the perfect shot. And he doesn’t fire."
*http://starkwest.tumblr.com/post/144228750916/at-the-end-when-cap-has-tony-on-his-back-when-he)
But BvS fight is still about something else, it's about deranged person, it's beyond normal fear or anger, I think Bruce in this film really is a mentally ill person, in some ways, because some of his manners actually make complete sense even though they seem crazy. You can see Superman wants to talk to Batman but he just notices there's no way he can normally speak with him so he thinks it's would be easier to beat some breath out of him so he'll finally listen but he does not know about kryptonite so that's where things became more complicated. But what's great is the fight does not end with anybody beaten, but actually with a huge redemption of titular characters, that's fantastic, I love it so much.

Brilliant. One of the best CBM fights Ive ever seen. The stakes felt real, and the fight was brutal. And the atmosphere/cinematography was brilliant.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Violence felt real. Everything else - motivations, logic, resolution - nope.

By the way, Diane Lane:

“It’s the compassion for a man who’s lost his mother. When you understand the wound, you can work better with people,” Lane explained.

Except it has nothing to do with compassion for Superman, who lost his mother.

 

[DACrowe]

That moment alone, when Batman starts to destroy the hall columns with Superman's lifeless body was better then any let's play with a plastic toys airport brawl moment (And I think that fight is actually great, probably the best saturday morning cartoon fight rendered into live action sequence). YMMV. (I just feel the Bruce's deranged feeling of relieve and fulfilment when he destroys those columns with Superman on the rope. t: )

I just rewatched BvS fight, sooo awesome.

I will give it this: it made root for Superman and hate Batman. And I never, ever rooted against Batman in the comics. But it made him look like a petty, deranged, fascist bully who would likely go on to vote for Trump.

So yeah, it made me start to hate Batman. That is a first, I will give the moment that.

 

[Zarex]

I had a tough time deciding who I hated more. Was it the bullying moron who was willing to let his mother be murdered to prove what a tough guy he was? Or the deranged sociopath who poisoned his victim, then tortured him, then got ready to stab him in the face with a radioactive spear? Decisions, decisions.

 

[jmc]

This was pretty funny.

What a great moment......

....this would have been for Clark to stop the fight and tell Batman what was happening. Dude, your mother is about to be killed. Say something you effing moron.

You can see Superman wants to talk to Batman but he just notices there's no way he can normally speak with him so he thinks it's would be easier to beat some breath out of him so he'll finally listen

I'm sorry dude, but this might honestly be the most ridiculous and blind assessment of what happens in this scene I've read. You've managed to convince yourself of something that actually doesn't exist within the scene.

 

[Timebomb]

I've got to get Superman to that spear I hid in that one place away from where the fight started so I can kill him. Thank goodness the fight was convenient enough to get us to this stairwell and I'm so glad the kryptonite gas worked and I can now throw him around like a rag doll. Just need to thrown him down this stairwell and then I can swing him around into pillars and eventually end up where I placed the spear. I love it when a plan comes together so perfectly.

 

[Timebomb]

What a great moment......

....this would have been for Clark to stop the fight and tell Batman what was happening. Dude, your mother is about to be killed. Say something you effing moron.



I'm sorry dude, but this might honestly be the most ridiculous and blind assessment of what happens in this scene I've read. You've managed to convince yourself of something that actually doesn't exist within the scene.

Does this Superman look like someone who's mother is in mortal danger? Not at all. But hey, let's punch each other. Ridiculous. Great post jmc

 

[DACrowe]

I've got to get Superman to that spear I hid in that one place away from where the fight started so I can kill him. Thank goodness the fight was convenient enough to get us to this stairwell and I'm so glad the kryptonite gas worked and I can now throw him around like a rag doll. Just need to thrown him down this stairwell and then I can swing him around into pillars and eventually end up where I placed the spear. I love it when a plan comes together so perfectly.

To be fair that is the vast majority of Batman stories in the comics.

[Ridiculous planning ahead precision... not the trying to psychotically murder someone because of a bad dream.]

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Violence felt real. Everything else - motivations, logic, resolution - nope.

Yep. That fight in BvS is the definition of a live action 80s cartoon battle.

 

[Consona]

What a great moment......

....this would have been for Clark to stop the fight and tell Batman what was happening. Dude, your mother is about to be killed. Say something you effing moron.

BvS IMO, skip if you think you know everything already.

And what convinces you (or should convince Superman) Batman would listen? The argument stays, until Batman is pacified it's worthless to trying to speak with him, just look at how the scene progresses, the first thing Batman does after he's a few feets away from Superman is loading his gun and shooting another kryptonite shell at Supes. Maybe Batman would not listen even if he was beaten down! He's nuts at this point, he just wants Superman dead...

That's why the Martha scene is so important, it's a paradigm shift for Batman, it's something that touched the deepest levels of his personality. Superman, the thing Bruce projects his issues into, the thing that became embodiment of his fundamental fear of his own powerlessness (which is something that haunts him since the day of that murder and continues through his life "Criminals are like weeds, Alfred; pull one up, another grows in its place.", "Twenty years in Gotham, Alfred; we've seen what promises are worth. How many good guys are left? How many stayed that way?"), saying name of his mother, somebody who was presumably dearest to him and the biggest loss in his life, and the biggest trauma: that's the shock that needed to happen to stop Batman... that reflects his obssessive nature the film is about, whether you like that or not. "Listen Bruce,... ", yea, that would not cut it. You have to go deeper, and the "Martha" is the deepest level.

That shock is basically an interconnection of Bruce' deepest issues, the powerlessness over the situation when he lost his mother, the dearest thing, and the sense of utter powerlessness when he sees these god-like flying beings he cannot even touch, the embodiment of his most hated thing. "Men fall from the sky, the gods hurl thunderbolts, innocents die. That's how it starts, sir. The fever, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness that turns good men... cruel."
In this case it's nice to be obssessive, because you know from a personal experience that's how it works. Just mentioning the object of your obssession makes you freeze.

And then, when Batman's stopped, there's time to talk.


I know you think I'm babbling some crap, but what can I do, you already know the movie's bad... And I'm not making it up, it's all in the film. Why do you think there's the scene of Waynes' murder? It's not because it's cool to have that in the movie, it's there because it's the main Batman's motif, the sense of powerlessness, etc, etc. It's not rocket science, Snyder shows all the important things that need to be shown, just put those together.

 

[Zarex]

And what convinces you (or should convince Superman) Batman would listen? The argument stays, until Batman is pacified it's worthless to trying to speak with him, just look at how the scene progresses, the first thing Batman does after he's a few feets away from Superman is loading his gun and shooting another kryptonite shell at Supes. Maybe Batman would not listen even if he was beaten down! He's nuts at this point, he just wants Superman dead...

I disagree somewhat with this scene. Batman doesn't just want Superman dead. If he did he would have used his brilliant prep time abilities to position the spear close at hand so he could administer a clean killing blow right after he administers the poison.

No, this monster wants to toy with his prey. Pummel this complete stranger, drag him across a filthy floor and then insult him before murdering him. It's two of our greatest comic book heroes involved in torture porn.

 

[Flint Marko]

That moment alone, when Batman starts to destroy the hall columns with Superman's lifeless body was better then any let's play with a plastic toys airport brawl moment

I don't care to wade into this debate at all (the poll results speak for themselves) but one of the few times I heard any laughter during the premiere was during this moment. Batman swinging Superman around looked so impossibly silly and fake that several people in my theater started laughing.

 

[Consona]

I disagree somewhat with this scene. Batman doesn't just want Superman dead. If he did he would have used his brilliant prep time abilities to position the spear close at hand so he could administer a clean killing blow right after he administers the poison.

No, this monster wants to toy with his prey. Pummel this complete stranger, drag him across a filthy floor and then insult him before murdering him. It's two of our greatest comic book heroes involved in torture porn.

Yea, agreed. "It's time you learn what it means to be a man", he did not want just to kill him, he wanted him to experience fear of being weak and powerless (which again refers to and reflects the Bruce's issues and their compensation) before finishing him.

I get a lot of people hate this approach, making Batman mad and obssessive individual, but from that point of view, all those things in the movie make sense. His obssessive bi-polar thinking "if we believe there's even a one percent chance that he is our enemy we have to take it as an absolute certainty... and we have to destroy him.", his ruthless actions, the Martha moment, it's just... it's rather harsh and insolent depiction of such beloved character. I can see why a lot of people would have problem with that. I'm in minority here. I think it's very interesting, I really do, and it actually makes sense to me that Batman would be some kind of obssessive and somewhat deranged individual. t: Angrily mumbling to himself "Do you bleed?.. You will!" t:
And I find really funny WB let Snyder do that in a huge $250M blockbuster about the two most beloved superheroes on Earth.

That is so crazy and absurd.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Civil War not even close.

But Cap/Bucky vs Iron Man in Siberia is the more emotional battle, one with no humor whatsoever. And thus the one that should be compared with BvS.

Still wins, not even close.

 

[Consona]

I don't care to wade into this debate at all (the poll results speak for themselves) but one of the few times I heard any laughter during the premiere was during this moment. Batman swinging Superman around looked so impossibly silly and fake that several people in my theater started laughing.

I was laughing too, because it was so funny watching Batman enjoying his sense of power over that god-like creature moment. But yea, I bet it's highly possible those guys laughed in a different way.

The degree of disconnect between some (a lot) of people and this movie was really high. I truly find this to be a niche indie noir film with a huge budget more than anything else. I think we'll probably never get something that way-out in the CB blockbuster field again. At least some of us got what they wanted. And with all those other films comming, all the other people will get Batman and Superman in other interpretations too, it's post-BvS era now. Unless Snyder strikes us with evil brainwashed Superman in JL! I would die laughing. But I think there's no way now studio would let him do that. And I actually want to see glorious heroic return of Supes.

 

[metaphysician]

The one that really messes it up that scene for me is when he throws the crate; it just looks fake, never mind the obvious kill.

Yeah, that bit was just lazy. It didn't even look like Batman was superstrong, it just looked like bad SFX. No clue how it got through the editing process without somebody calling it out.

 

[Bats123]

the Batman vs Superman portion of the movie was more of a struggle, also it was hilarious.

Also it should've never happened, but hey its the title of the movie so they have to fight right?

 

[jmc]

BvS IMO, skip if you think you know everything already.

And what convinces you (or should convince Superman) Batman would listen? The argument stays, until Batman is pacified it's worthless to trying to speak with him, just look at how the scene progresses, the first thing Batman does after he's a few feets away from Superman is loading his gun and shooting another kryptonite shell at Supes. Maybe Batman would not listen even if he was beaten down! He's nuts at this point, he just wants Superman dead...

That's why the Martha scene is so important, it's a paradigm shift for Batman, it's something that touched the deepest levels of his personality. Superman, the thing Bruce projects his issues into, the thing that became embodiment of his fundamental fear of his own powerlessness (which is something that haunts him since the day of that murder and continues through his life "Criminals are like weeds, Alfred; pull one up, another grows in its place.", "Twenty years in Gotham, Alfred; we've seen what promises are worth. How many good guys are left? How many stayed that way?"), saying name of his mother, somebody who was presumably dearest to him and the biggest loss in his life, and the biggest trauma: that's the shock that needed to happen to stop Batman... that reflects his obssessive nature the film is about, whether you like that or not. "Listen Bruce,... ", yea, that would not cut it. You have to go deeper, and the "Martha" is the deepest level.

That shock is basically an interconnection of Bruce' deepest issues, the powerlessness over the situation when he lost his mother, the dearest thing, and the sense of utter powerlessness when he sees these god-like flying beings he cannot even touch, the embodiment of his most hated thing. "Men fall from the sky, the gods hurl thunderbolts, innocents die. That's how it starts, sir. The fever, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness that turns good men... cruel."
In this case it's nice to be obssessive, because you know from a personal experience that's how it works. Just mentioning the object of your obssession makes you freeze.

And then, when Batman's stopped, there's time to talk.


I know you think I'm babbling some crap, but what can I do, you already know the movie's bad... And I'm not making it up, it's all in the film. Why do you think there's the scene of Waynes' murder? It's not because it's cool to have that in the movie, it's there because it's the main Batman's motif, the sense of powerlessness, etc, etc. It's not rocket science, Snyder shows all the important things that need to be shown, just put those together.

Answer me this very simple question. Is it logical for Superman to engage in a childish battle when his mothers life is on the line?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Answer me this very simple question. Is it logical for Superman to engage in a childish battle when his mothers life is on the line?

Of course. Clark loves his parents, but his pride definitely comes first. Which is why I am still confused he didn't just one punch Batman...

 

[Mjölnir]

The airport battle is far better in my view. Very varied and innovative, and it's definitely a contender for best superhero fight ever.

The BvS fight doesn't portray Superman well at any point and the ending is now the butt of endless jokes for being as bad as it is.

The two are pretty different so the Cap & Bucky vs Iron Man is perhaps a better comparison, but even there I think CW wins with a large margin.

 

[Mjölnir]

Answer me this very simple question. Is it logical for Superman to engage in a childish battle when his mothers life is on the line?

The sad part is that this middle ground is the most pointless and counterproductive action for Superman, and it's done because Snyder failed at setting up a proper reason for them to fight.

The biggest problem isn't that Superman goes there and first acts scary, and then doesn't give it a fair shot to talk to Batman. It's that he's setting up a fight that Superman doesn't want to be in. If they had instead set them up so both wanted to stop the other we could actually have had a fight that meant something. Then it would have made sense for Superman to just beat down Batman a little so he would yield (while in the actual movie, beating him up just confirmed Batman's view of him).