Justice League Danny Elfman Scoring Justice League - Part 1

[BH/HHH]

When people say stuff is old it really makes me laugh. It just shows how narrow minded some of the modern generation are. Learn some appreciation that’s what I say.

Now I’m not saying things can’t be dated or sound dated but saying it’s old just feels insulting.

 

[Consona]

To me that description is inaccurate. That'd be like calling any modern film old because the medium of film making has been around for over a hundred years. If you think using an orchestra makes the score sound "old" that's your prerogative, but for me (and I think most people) a properly utilized orchestra is timeless, and will never go out of fashion. "Friends and Foes" also featured synth quite prominently, so it's not entirely "dated."

When people say stuff is old it really makes me laugh. It just shows how narrow minded some of the modern generation are. Learn some appreciation that’s what I say.

Now I’m not saying things can’t be dated or sound dated but saying it’s old just feels insulting.

I think you miss the main point that we are talking about the sound to the estabslished brand. I don't mind pure orchestral sound, I actually love it, I listen to Dvorak, Williams or Goldsmith regularly, but we are talking about a trilogy here. MoS, BvS, JL. That's the point. Elfman's score sounds radically different to the Zimmer's stuff. Plus the sound itself is just vintage. It is, that's a description, not a value judgment.

 

[BH/HHH]

I think you miss the main point that we are talking about the sound to the estabslished brand. I don't mind pure orchestral sound, I actually love it, I listen to Dvorak, Williams or Goldsmith regularly, but we are talking about a trilogy here. MoS, BvS, JL. That's the point. Elfman's score sounds radically different to the Zimmer's stuff. Plus the sound itself is just vintage. It is, that's a description, not a value judgment.

So you just think it’s too much of a difference from the previous stuff? I kind of get that but we have only heard two tracks. Personally I felt the stuff in BvS didn’t match up to MOS that well apart from the stuff they carried over. It felt much more dour and was part in why the tone of BvS felt different to MOS imo.

 

[AnneFan]

I think we're seeing WB experiment. They went down the 2.5 hour route with Zimmer/Junkie XL with BvS, and they got a low Rotten Tomatoes score. So they've gone down the other road. They've given us 2 hours and Danny Elfman. It is a departure and they're sitting back to see what happens.

 

[Gu3ree]

I have to admit, the prologue in BvS, the "Beautiful Life" was very good. It was surreal and moving. I just wish Batman had had a better theme. Luthor's theme was solid and Wonder Woman's was phenomenal. Shame for Batman though. I think he deserved a better theme. It really didn't seem like a good idea at all to hire Zimmer and Junkie XL again to try and re-do Batman again, with the exception of Superman, Wonder Woman and Lex Luthor's themes being good, I think it might have been a good idea to have chosen an additional composer to work on Batman's theme.

Slightly off topic, but I know people love Christian Bale's Batman. For me, it'll always be Michael Keaton. I just don't think either of the other Batmans were as cool as Keaton's take. I would elaborate more on it, but maybe in the Batman discussion.

I think this was partly due to Danny Elfman's score. BvS didn't have a memorable Batman theme you could hum to yourself, but Elfman's Batman score is iconic. It was dark, cool and heroic. It had theme.

Every time I look at Bale's Batman, with Zimmer's music, I think it's good, but I still feel like I'm seeing a version of Batman, and not the definitive Batman. Affleck comes as a close second favorite Batman to me next to Keaton. When I see Keaton, I see Batman.

 

[BH/HHH]

I never cared for Lex’s theme, found it really jarring. That’s one of the ones I think sounds like it doesn’t fit with the rest of the score.

Gu3ree was while for me Affleck is the best dual rolled Batman (as in he has the best combination of Bruce/Batman) Keaton is also my favourite Batman.

 

[Greens]

I think Lex's theme is my favorite behind Superman's. It's unconventional and funnily enough it's something Elfman could have come up with.

 

[FunkMiller]

But the Elfman's score sounds old. There's no way around it. Zimmer established the sound of Snyder's DCEU films and Eflman just did not follow this trend and composed the score in the classical manner. So no matter what are those new themes and melodies, it will sound "old" just because of the sound palette he used.

I do wish Zimmer had been allowed to modernise the Williams theme somewhat. I think that piece of music put through a more up to date instrumental style would be marvellous.

But you’re wrong to suggest that a theme or melody sounds old. It’s just the composition that may be dated. There’s no such thing as old musical notes or phrases, just the way they are interpreted.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ I actually disagree.

If you listen to pretty much any score from the 30s-40s..it has this hyper-emotional, intense style..like "look, I'm dramatic." A good exception would be Citizen Kane..which was composed by Bernard Herrman.

There are a lot of good scores in the 50s..but to me, that era has a John Phillip Sousa bombast to it. Herrman's scores are pretty great, and I could listen to bits of Ben Hurr (Rozsa) and The Ten Commandments (Bernstein) for quite a while.

I honestly think the 60s on up is where the "modern sound" began, though I think the music in the 1970s was more subdued. 80s saw the rise of electronic scoring..and the 90s was more complicated.

But to me..the 'modern blockbuster' sound actually began with Klause Badelt's Pirates of the Carribean (2003)-and was cemented by Hans Zimmer's work on the sequels and in the TDK trilogy.


Noticed how restrained Hans is on crimson tide[YT]MRhsJ_KQf6w[/YT]

As opposed to POTC3 [YT]1S-A0hvL4tM[/YT]


The later Transformers movies probably played a role as well.
[YT]Y-Dcg7cdnRY[/YT]

Which goes back to Elfman..his "Justice League" style is less of a 1980s sound per say, and more of a pre-2007 sound.

Which apparently is "dated" if you're not accustomed to listening to scores over ten years old.

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

Great post, Coco, enjoyed the little history lesson

 

[Consona]

I have to admit, the prologue in BvS, the "Beautiful Life" was very good. It was surreal and moving. I just wish Batman had had a better theme. Luthor's theme was solid and Wonder Woman's was phenomenal. Shame for Batman though. I think he deserved a better theme. It really didn't seem like a good idea at all to hire Zimmer and Junkie XL again to try and re-do Batman again, with the exception of Superman, Wonder Woman and Lex Luthor's themes being good, I think it might have been a good idea to have chosen an additional composer to work on Batman's theme.

Slightly off topic, but I know people love Christian Bale's Batman. For me, it'll always be Michael Keaton. I just don't think either of the other Batmans were as cool as Keaton's take. I would elaborate more on it, but maybe in the Batman discussion.

I think this was partly due to Danny Elfman's score. BvS didn't have a memorable Batman theme you could hum to yourself, but Elfman's Batman score is iconic. It was dark, cool and heroic. It had theme.

Every time I look at Bale's Batman, with Zimmer's music, I think it's good, but I still feel like I'm seeing a version of Batman, and not the definitive Batman. Affleck comes as a close second favorite Batman to me next to Keaton. When I see Keaton, I see Batman.

I think you'll be happy since from what I gathered from the interview, he actually reused his 1989 Batman theme, with some little tweaks I presume, in the JL score. As well as Williams' Superman theme, as we've already heared in "Friends and Foes". Which is totally off since both characters are from totally different universes but hey, what can you do now...

But you’re wrong to suggest that a theme or melody sounds old. It’s just the composition that may be dated. There’s no such thing as old musical notes or phrases, just the way they are interpreted.

You misread what I've written. I've said the sound palette is vintage sounding, not those themes.

Which goes back to Elfman..his "Justice League" style is less of a 1980s sound per say, and more of a pre-2007 sound.

Which apparently is "dated" if you're not accustomed to listening to scores over ten years old.

I listen actively to all kinds of soundtracks from all eras. What we've heard from Danny is, sound-wise, pretty old-school.

 

[Consona]

At first the "Hero's Theme" felt so meh to me and now I listen to it on repeat. Is it me or is this "hero's" theme in C minor? t: Who's hero theme would be in a minor key?

 

[BH/HHH]

I can’t atop listening to Friends and Foes I love it.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Ah..that does make a difference. That last jab was at the complaining Youtubers rather than Consona.

I actually think the use of the Williams theme is a bit funky, but I'd be okay if the classic Superman theme was used for an epic moment.

My perception is that the Justice League score (judging from Friends and Foes) is more "Spider-Man"-ish than StarWars-ey.

Sometimes, one agrees with someone else more than he/she thinks she does..but when there's a communication gap, it feels confrontational.

I'm sorry if there's anything I said that rubbed you the wrong way. I was thinking more about the Youtube Whiners :P

 

[STARMAN]

Hero's track is growing on me.

I can't wait for the main JL theme.

 

[king666]

https://***********/nic_mm/status/924122629296058368

god i hope this is in it

Would love to hear this song in the movie, holy ****.

Not going to happen, though.

EDIT: Still, it could be super cheesy. Idk, the movie would have to "earn" the song imo.

 

[Consona]

^ Ah..that does make a difference. That last jab was at the complaining Youtubers rather than Consona.

I actually think the use of the Williams theme is a bit funky, but I'd be okay if the classic Superman theme was used for an epic moment.

My perception is that the Justice League score (judging from Friends and Foes) is more "Spider-Man"-ish than StarWars-ey.

Sometimes, one agrees with someone else more than he/she thinks she does..but when there's a communication gap, it feels confrontational.

I'm sorry if there's anything I said that rubbed you the wrong way. I was thinking more about the Youtube Whiners :P

No apologies needed! You haven't said anything I would consider offending. You're such a gentleman.

 

[Greens]

At first the "Hero's Theme" felt so meh to me and now I listen to it on repeat. Is it me or is this "hero's" theme in C minor? t: Who's hero theme would be in a minor key?

Elfman loves minor keys. I believe his Batman theme was in a minor key as well.

 

[matt47]

Listening to "I will find him." That build is epic.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Elfman loves minor keys. I believe his Batman theme was in a minor key as well.

Batman makes sense in a minor key honestly.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I can’t atop listening to Friends and Foes I love it.

Same

Such a throwback to the ol days

 

[Greens]

I wish they would put Friends and Foes on Spotify so I don't have to listen to it through YouTube.

#FirstWorldProblems

 

[BH/HHH]

Same

Such a throwback to the ol days

Apple Music have no removed it so I can no longer listen to it

 

[Greens]

Apple Music have no removed it so I can no longer listen to it

Just search "friends and foes justice league" on YouTube!

 

[BH/HHH]

Just search "friends and foes justice league" on YouTube!

Oh I know I can do just easier to listen with my other stuff.