Justice League Danny Elfman Scoring Justice League - Part 1

[BH/HHH]

Good point, that gives them the excuse to come up with a new theme

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I think Nick Arundel's Batman theme is the best one since Walker.
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But Elfman can do sweeping well..so I'd be okay with a more sweeping theme this time around.

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I'd love it if Elfman were to reprise Batman's theme in his very own movie, for like a really intense climactic moment.

Kind of like when Indy gets back into the truck and the theme plays.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Arundel’s AC theme is so great.

Could absolutely see it as a theme in a live action movie

 

[Consona]

I don't remember who said here that Elfman has a much richer musical vocabulary

This un-chill dude.

and looking back to the actual trend in blockbuster's score, I have to agree. I like some bombastic score but it could be fresh to have something a little bit more old school imo. The synthetic bass and brass, the loud drums and everything like that is cool, but it starts to become very generic, I think.

The thing is, music can become very generic no matter what instruments are used. It's always about ideas, melodies, motives that are strong, interesting recognizable.

Look at how much people think classical music is boring. I don't blame them for that. Sometimes the ideas are not there no matter how famous or good composer you are. And sometimes some people even say Williams is boring even with his fantastic melodies included.

It's rare you have everything in one piece. Some pop songs have so strong memorable motives, but the harmonic structure around them and the development of the ideas are literally non-existent. Sometimes you have so thought-out classical pieces, very well written, that lack very memorable themes.

And with movie music. At least Elfman is an old-school guy, who scores to the picture a lot, so it's not just some cool music playing next to what's happening on the screen, but it really puts what's on the screen into the music, Williams/Goldsmith/Herrmann style. I hope he got locked picture, so he could do what he's good at.

In the end, a well written piece is great no matter how vintage it sounds. You can put Richard Wagner into modern epic blockbuster and it will work. Plus the classical sound is more universal than electronic sound, I think.

 

[J.Drangal]

The thing is, music can become very generic no matter what instruments are used. It's always about ideas, melodies, motives that are strong, interesting recognizable.

Oh yes, I was talking about the sound texture.
There is something born with what Zimmer did for Batman Begins and The Dark Knight that has been copied to the extreme in recent blockbusters.
This signature sound has somewhat eclipsed the search for a memorable melody.

At least Elfman is an old-school guy, who scores to the picture a lot, so it's not just some cool music playing next to what's happening on the screen, but it really puts what's on the screen into the music, Williams/Goldsmith/Herrmann style. I hope he got locked picture, so he could do what he's good at.

Yup, this is why I think it's unfair to have a definitive opinion on the first snippet from Elfman. Sure we can talk about the direction, but this is movie music, and without the picture we haven't the final product, the whole piece. Sure we can talk about specific things like melody, arrangement, but we have to keep in mind that this music has been created to be heard in context. Plus, these two firsts tracks aren't definitive theme, especially "Friend and Foe".
There is many score I like because when I listen to them I recall some scenes.
I'm sure some that have been disapointed by "Hero's Theme" will maybe love it after have seen where the music was intended to be played.

In the end, a well written piece is great no matter how vintage it sounds. You can put Richard Wagner into modern epic blockbuster and it will work.

Yes, music is the combination of composition, arrangement, sound texture...
When an artist succeed in several of these aspect, his work can travel time. But if he succeed to create a great melody, then it's a given.

Plus the classical sound is more universal than electronic sound, I think.

Nothing beats the organic sound, it can't getting old

 

[Consona]

F**k, I miss the Zimmer/J XL sound already. The thing is, this is that kind of a film where you go full rock and roll, not vintage. The over-processed sound full of pounding drums is just want you need when fighting an alien invasion.

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[Da-Scribe]

Have we heard more songs or just the original two?

 

[Greens]

Have we heard more songs

Nope.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

At some point there will be a leak

There’s always a leak

 

[Snakewise]

0:19-0:26 of Hero's Theme reminds me a bit of The Shadow.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Nope.

Eh, I'm not gonna make any declarations on the overall score then. I don't hate what I've heard though. It's different for sure, but I need to hear it all in the proper context.

 

[Jumpman]

F**k, I miss the Zimmer/J XL sound already. The thing is, this is that kind of a film where you go full rock and roll, not vintage. The over-processed sound full of pounding drums is just want you need when fighting an alien invasion.

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Bingo. This is why Gary Clark’s track works so damn well with the footage. It feels very Snyder and Junkie XL. It belongs. This vintage thing doesn’t work
with Snyder’s sensibilities at all.

 

[Elevator Man]

.

I feel like Zimmer's best when he's allowed to go ham-Intersteller's music was refreshingly minimalist..but when he's tied down to not the best material..he can be banal as well..

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Disagree. Zimmer’s score was one of the highlights of TASM2, imo. So it was anything but banal. I thought it was very unconventional compared to most superhero scores (both past and present). I also prefer TASM2 score over his TDKT and DCEU scores.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Oh yes, I was talking about the sound texture.
There is something born with what Zimmer did for Batman Begins and The Dark Knight that has been copied to the extreme in recent blockbusters.
This signature sound has somewhat eclipsed the search for a memorable melody.



Yup, this is why I think it's unfair to have a definitive opinion on the first snippet from Elfman. Sure we can talk about the direction, but this is movie music, and without the picture we haven't the final product, the whole piece. Sure we can talk about specific things like melody, arrangement, but we have to keep in mind that this music has been created to be heard in context. Plus, these two firsts tracks aren't definitive theme, especially "Friend and Foe".
There is many score I like because when I listen to them I recall some scenes.
I'm sure some that have been disapointed by "Hero's Theme" will maybe love it after have seen where the music was intended to be played.



Yes, music is the combination of composition, arrangement, sound texture...
When an artist succeed in several of these aspect, his work can travel time. But if he succeed to create a great melody, then it's a given.



Nothing beats the organic sound, it can't getting old

To me..while I prefer traditional music..there's time where more electronic stuff is welcome. I feel like Blade Runner wouldn't have the atmosphere without that minimalistic Vangelis score, for example.

For the superhero genre, I think the transition away from themes is in part because the audience itself is starting to associate dramatic music to one that is less self-reflective.

I don't think it's so much laziness as much as the fear of ruining the moment.

That being said..the BWUM-HONK-DRONE way of composing is lacking its freshness.

I think for The Dark Knight, a lack of themes work because the character is unsure of his limits and is constantly behind the ball. A full on "established" Batman theme would be inappropriate.

That being said, I felt like Zimmer felt afraid to make a "new" Batman theme and break continuity. Imagine the Batwing scene with a sad Batman theme, rather than the droney choir music.

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Now going forward to BVS.. while there are some good tracks like "Beautiful Lie" and "I thought she was with you" most of the soundtrack doubles down on the bombast.

Which brings us to Justice League..if I had to chose between an inspired Zimmer score and an inspired Elfman score, it would be pretty hard.

But Hans is burnt out from the superhero genre..and Junkie isn't that great, IMHO.

Elfman has recently become hit and miss, but when he's great, he's iconic, and when he's not..he's no worse than average.

Regarding the contributions in the superhero genre, I'll admit I'm biased to the "Elfman" sound.

Now, I think John Powell's a composer who pretty much never phones it in..

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but at the same time, he's scoring Han Solo.

I'd love for Howard Shore to compose a superhero movie..but I haven't really kept up with him.

With Elfman you have a "safe" choice, but also the possibility of musical brilliance.

I honestly think 90 percent of the people complaining about Junkie being replaced aren't thinking of Elfman's discography.

And the other ten percent have a point..but I'd still take a mediocre Elfman score over the typical Junkie score.

 

[BH/HHH]

Who did Wonder Woman's score? Cause I thought that was awesome.

I actually agree with FlamingCoco in that Junkie XL isn't that great.

 

[Consona]

Who did Wonder Woman's score? Cause I thought that was awesome.

Rupert Gregson-Williams.

I thought it was ok. Sounded nice and lush but nothing really outstanding that you'd hum after leaving a cinema.

 

[J.Drangal]

To me..while I prefer traditional music..there's time where more electronic stuff is welcome. I feel like Blade Runner wouldn't have the atmosphere without that minimalistic Vangelis score, for example.

Yes yes, I agree with that, what I was trying to said is that some score seems to rely more on creating the same texture than coming with memorable tunes. Vangelis had both on Blade Runner, beautiful composition support by a distinctive sound.

Now going forward to BVS.. while there are some good tracks like "Beautiful Lie" and "I thought she was with you" most of the soundtrack doubles down on the bombast.

Same here. I also like "Day of the Dead" which is beautiful to me, with or without the picture. But yeah, the tracks for Batman, even if I like the simplicity of it and this minimalist motif of 5 repeated notes, it's just too loud, and after a time, it numbed me. I mean... With "Fight Night", I feel like my speaker are going to crash.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Rupert Gregson-Williams.

I thought it was ok. Sounded nice and lush but nothing really outstanding that you'd hum after leaving a cinema.

It's weird..because I think the atmosphere of the WW score is greater than the music itself..but it fits the imagery and character.
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I actually think Junkie needs a royalty check for the two minute mark.

I really shouldn't read youtube comments on
Elfman's new score:

"Why does this sound so old??"

^Like, lol.. maybe you should watch movies before 2006.

Danny Elfman's biggest problem wasn't following Junkie. It was not being a part of the Zimmer team Like if BVS was Zimmer/Elfman, I can guarantee that a lot of these bandwagon haters would be screaming for Elfman to return if he got replaced by someone else.

It's frustrating..because I identify with the people who are like "Elfman can do better." (though I don't really have a problem with Friend or Foe)..but I feel like John Williams could literally score Justice League and most of the Youtube crowd would be like "omg..you replaced Junkie and Hans with some old guy who doesn't understand modern music!"

And to me..I really don't expect a great score..but I feel like (and this is what hate does..is it raises the standards of expectations-because one is looking for flaws) if Elfman doesn't deliver...then the "told you so" crowd will be ganging up on that score like piranhas. But if he does deliver, it's "Elfman's just using an old fashioned style to appeal to nostalgia!"

He can't win. Except to impress the GA

 

[Legendver2]

Danny Elfman's biggest problem wasn't following Junkie. It was not being a part of the Zimmer team Like if BVS was Zimmer/Elfman, I can guarantee that a lot of these bandwagon haters would be screaming for Elfman to return if he got replaced by someone else.

It's frustrating..because I identify with the people who are like "Elfman can do better." (though I don't really have a problem with Friend or Foe)..but I feel like John Williams could literally score Justice League and most of the Youtube crowd would be like "omg..you replaced Junkie and Hans with some old guy who doesn't understand modern music!"

And to me..I really don't expect a great score..but I feel like (and this is what hate does..is it raises the standards of expectations-because one is looking for flaws) if Elfman doesn't deliver...then the "told you so" crowd will be ganging up on that score like piranhas. But if he does deliver, it's "Elfman's just using an old fashioned style to appeal to nostalgia!"

He can't win. Except to impress the GA

It's kinda like some predictions here saying if JL fails, it's because Snyder, and if it succeeds, it's because Whedon saved it.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Here's the thing..trying not to get too off topic..Zack Snyder's only made one uniform hit (his first film) and the rest are controversial or poorly received (though I think Watchmen is better than it gets credit for)

Danny Elfman literally has 30+ years of creating mostly solid and ,at times, masterful work.

If, in the last decade, he stalled, he'll have created enough musical memories to last a lifetime.

It'd be one thing if more comments were "not up to Elfman standards" but the narrative seems to be "Who's this guy replacing the composer I WANT?"


I do think that it's sad when people are working on stuff and it gets scrapped, but that's the industry. That happened with Toy Story 2, for the better.

If folks like XL over Elfman, that's alright. All opinions are technically correct.

But there seems to be a bandwagoning of opinions against Elfman for not being "familiar" enough. It's bizarre.

 

[matt47]

I think for The Dark Knight, a lack of themes work because the character is unsure of his limits and is constantly behind the ball. A full on "established" Batman theme would be inappropriate.

That being said, I felt like Zimmer felt afraid to make a "new" Batman theme and break continuity. Imagine the Batwing scene with a sad Batman theme, rather than the droney choir music.

He was always adding onto the already established themes in TDK trilogy. Same with Superman is bvs.

And na man, that piece he played in the Batwing scene was perfect. Because it was the same music that played when his parents were killed, the birth of Batman. Then it plays again when when Batman dies. It bookmarked the birth and death of that creature he needed. It was prefect.

These kind of call backs are why I'm so bummed with the way Elfman is composing this movie. It doesn't feel like he gives a **** about what has already been established.

 

[J.Drangal]

But there seems to be a bandwagoning of opinions against Elfman for not being "familiar" enough. It's bizarre.

It's just that we're old...

 

[Consona]

I really shouldn't read youtube comments on
Elfman's new score:

"Why does this sound so old??"

^Like, lol.. maybe you should watch movies before 2006.

Danny Elfman's biggest problem wasn't following Junkie. It was not being a part of the Zimmer team Like if BVS was Zimmer/Elfman, I can guarantee that a lot of these bandwagon haters would be screaming for Elfman to return if he got replaced by someone else.

It's frustrating..because I identify with the people who are like "Elfman can do better." (though I don't really have a problem with Friend or Foe)..but I feel like John Williams could literally score Justice League and most of the Youtube crowd would be like "omg..you replaced Junkie and Hans with some old guy who doesn't understand modern music!"

And to me..I really don't expect a great score..but I feel like (and this is what hate does..is it raises the standards of expectations-because one is looking for flaws) if Elfman doesn't deliver...then the "told you so" crowd will be ganging up on that score like piranhas. But if he does deliver, it's "Elfman's just using an old fashioned style to appeal to nostalgia!"

He can't win. Except to impress the GA

But the Elfman's score sounds old. There's no way around it. Zimmer established the sound of Snyder's DCEU films and Eflman just did not follow this trend and composed the score in the classical manner. So no matter what are those new themes and melodies, it will sound "old" just because of the sound palette he used.

 

[BH/HHH]

It's just that we're old...

 

[Elayis]

But the Elfman's score sounds old. There's no way around it. Zimmer established the sound of Snyder's DCEU films and Eflman just did not follow this trend and composed the score in the classical manner. So no matter what are those new themes and melodies, it will sound "old" just because of the sound palette he used.

To me that description is inaccurate. That'd be like calling any modern film old because the medium of film making has been around for over a hundred years. If you think using an orchestra makes the score sound "old" that's your prerogative, but for me (and I think most people) a properly utilized orchestra is timeless, and will never go out of fashion. "Friends and Foes" also featured synth quite prominently, so it's not entirely "dated."