Daredevil Daredevil General Discussion Thread - Part 3

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-Black Cat appearing in DD (I love their dynamic during Mark Waid's run and she was written out way too soon imo) could be interesting. Silver Sable as well.

-As for out and out villains, well the obvious one would be Mysterio, given that there was a pretty famous DD story where he was the main threat.

-Tombstone could also work if they go with the Spectacular Spider-Man route where he's another big crime boss with Hammerhead as his enforcer/right hand man.
 
I agree, I'd definitely prefer for Kingpin to remain as Daredevil's nemesis.

If they play their cards right though, they could build towards a Sinister Six movie where Kingpin is pulling strings in the background that allows for a Spider-Man/Daredevil team-up. I've always felt that for Sinister Six to truly feel like a threat to Spider-Man, he's gonna need some backup and a team-up with Daredevil would be awesome. Tying in Kingpin allows it to make sense in the world that they're building as well.

Yeah, I would rather build up Daredevil's own rogues gallery in the show, rather then have DD constantly borrow Spidey villains, plus guys like Dr. Octopus would not work well on a TV budget. I think sometimes DD writers spend too much time borrowing Spidey villains, rather then using DD's own villains.

-Black Cat appearing in DD (I love their dynamic during Mark Waid's run and she was written out way too soon imo) could be interesting. Silver Sable as well.

-As for out and out villains, well the obvious one would be Mysterio, given that there was a pretty famous DD story where he was the main threat.

-Tombstone could also work if they go with the Spectacular Spider-Man route where he's another big crime boss with Hammerhead as his enforcer/right hand man.

But DD has a ton of love interests in his own mythos: Elektra, Karen Page, Heather Glenn, Echo, Typhoid Mary, Mila, etc. I don't think adding Black Cat or Silver Sable is very necessary when DD has several love interests from his own mythos to choose from.

That story with Mysterio is just a rehash of Born Again and really Mysterio's motives for attacking DD were related to the Clone Saga and him having cancer. I also don't think introducing Mysterio in a story where he commits suicide is a good if you want to make him a long term villain. You could replace Mysterio with Mr. Fear in that story and it would make more sense, Mr. Fear has a established grudge against DD, that is not tied to a bunch of out dated continuity from the 90s and I think introducing Mysterio with him having cancer limits what you can do with him. Or you could just ignore that story all together, because it is just a rehash of a better story.

In Spectacular Spider-Man Tombstone was used because that show could not get the rights to Kingpin, so they had Tombstone fill Kingpin's role. I don't think that would work in this show.

I would rather DD be his own thing, without having to shoe horn in a million elements from the Spider Universe.
 
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Is it possible for Marvel to refilm a small scene to put Urich at the Daily Bugle instead of whatever paper he was working for? If it's just a piece of dialogue, he could easily refilm it or redub it. If it's a building or newspaper, they could CGI over it. There's still a couple of months until April.
 
Is it possible for Marvel to refilm a small scene to put Urich at the Daily Bugle instead of whatever paper he was working for? If it's just a piece of dialogue, he could easily refilm it or redub it. If it's a building or newspaper, they could CGI over it. There's still a couple of months until April.

I don't see the point in that, especially if it is mentioned that he works for this different paper several times in the first season. Post production CGI or dubbing would just be a distraction and frankly this is an adaption, it doesn't have to be 100% like the comics down to the smallest detail. Almost every adaption changes some details.

Which paper Urich worked at has never been that important in regards to his role in the Daredevil Universe anyway, he could always transfer to the Daily Bugle in the second season, but I don't think that is necessary.
 
Yeah, I would rather build up Daredevil's own rogues gallery in the show, rather then have DD constantly borrow Spidey villains, plus guys like Dr. Octopus would not work well on a TV budget. I think sometimes DD writers spend too much time borrowing Spidey villains, rather then using DD's own villains.



But DD has a ton of love interests in his own mythos: Elektra, Karen Page, Heather Glenn, Echo, Typhoid Mary, Mila, etc. I don't think adding Black Cat or Silver Sable is very necessary when DD has several love interests from his own mythos to choose from.

That story with Mysterio is just a rehash of Born Again and really Mysterio's motives for attacking DD were related to the Clone Saga and him having cancer. I also don't think introducing Mysterio in a story where he commits suicide is a good if you want to make him a long term villain. You could replace Mysterio with Mr. Fear in that story and it would make more sense, Mr. Fear has a established grudge against DD, that is not tied to a bunch of out dated continuity from the 90s and I think introducing Mysterio with him having cancer limits what you can do with him. Or you could just ignore that story all together, because it is just a rehash of a better story.

In Spectacular Spider-Man Tombstone was used because that show could not get the rights to Kingpin, so they had Tombstone fill Kingpin's role. I don't think that would work in this show.

I would rather DD be his own thing, without having to shoe horn in a million elements from the Spider Universe.

-They don't need to be love interests. They could be thieves/mercs that DD has to deal with.

-I don't find Mr. Fear to be nearly as interesting as Mysterio TBH.

-So what? They're using The Owl as a crime boss already it appears. So how would Tombstone be any different?

No one is talking about shoehorning in a ton of Spidey stuff. But using SOME of it, why not? You have all of these "street-level" characters operating out of the same damn city. Frankly it'd be more disappointing NOT to see them interact.
 
More rumor or is there anything concrete yet?

Edit: Nevermind, I just saw the article on the front page. Looks like MS let Sony walk all over them, at least on 1st impression.

Tis 1st impression. It's a good deal for both. Remember, Marvel still has 100% of merchandise and TV. They were never going to be able to get full creative control back. Here, they get to create a Marvel Spider-man movie and Sony gives it the thumbs up as they are footing the bill. AND Spidey gets to play in the MCU. Win-win.
 
Tis 1st impression. It's a good deal for both. Remember, Marvel still has 100% of merchandise and TV. They were never going to be able to get full creative control back. Here, they get to create a Marvel Spider-man movie and Sony gives it the thumbs up as they are footing the bill. AND Spidey gets to play in the MCU. Win-win.

I disagree here. Sony isn't invincible. Far from it. When your enemy is slowly drowning you just should have pulled up a chair and have the patience to wait for the inevitable. Could Sony have squeezed one or two more turkeys out of the Spidey franchise before they went under for good? Yeah, but that's just the cost of doing business. Sony was the one on the ropes here, not Marvel. I dunno, I'm sure there's more to it all as Fiege is far from stupid but he's just the chief creative officer over at Marvel. Ike Perlmutter still outranks him as does the Disney chief Bob Iger.
 
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Sony recently sold off SOE.

The company was in bad financial straights not long ago and some outlets were predicting it would go bankrupt.

Just saying, it might one day get to a point where Disney looks to buy back Spider-Man outright. Could cost billions of dollars, but it might happen.
 
I don't see the point in that, especially if it is mentioned that he works for this different paper several times in the first season. Post production CGI or dubbing would just be a distraction and frankly this is an adaption, it doesn't have to be 100% like the comics down to the smallest detail. Almost every adaption changes some details.

Which paper Urich worked at has never been that important in regards to his role in the Daredevil Universe anyway, he could always transfer to the Daily Bugle in the second season, but I don't think that is necessary.

I tend to agree. It's certainly not cost-effective to change it unless they kept it extremely vague and only have to change one or two things. I suspect that's not the case.

There was always an odd disconnect with Ben Urich and the Daily Bugle. He is usually only Daredevil so he isn't a Spider-Man character or with the Bugle there. At the same time, J. Jonah Jameson is rarely a Daredevil character. They say how Jonah hates masked costume heroes, but Spider-Man is the guy who is vilified. I never get the impression Daredevil gets the same level of scorn. Not bad, but just a little weird.
 
I don't want Ben Urich being retroactively made into a Daily Bugle employee here. If they want to set up the Daily Bugle connection, do it in future. In a future season, have Urich attempt to run an expose on the Kingpin, but his editor refuses to publish it. Urich finds himself out of a job. Then J Jonah Jameson gets on the phone and says he'll publish it, hires Urich onto his staff. Set up the Bugle as the only paper with the balls to stand up against Fisk.
 
The only real crossovers I hope to see in the Netflix shows are JJ Jameson appearing in Jessica Jones, Daredevil fighting Electro and Spot and Spider-Man coming to help Iron Fist fight Steel Serpent in Central Park. That and Spider-Man joining the Defenders.

The shows can already stand on their own. Getting the Spider-Man rights back is ultimately a bonus.

Daredevil has one of the best rogues galleries in comics. Bullseye, Kingpin, Mister Fear, Elektra, Typhoid, Gladiator, Ikari, Owl, Echo, Nuke, Bushwhacker, Turk Barrett, Bullet, etc.

This isn't even getting into The Hand.
 
I disagree here. Sony isn't invincible. Far from it. When your enemy is slowly drowning you just should have pulled up a chair and have the patience to wait for the inevitable. Could Sony have squeezed one or two more turkeys out of the Spidey franchise before they went under for good? Yeah, but that's just the cost of doing business. Sony was the one on the ropes here, not Marvel. I dunno, I'm sure there's more to it all as Fiege is far from stupid but he's just the chief creative officer over at Marvel. Ike Perlmutter still outranks him as does the Disney chief Bob Iger.

I'd say it's a pretty great deal for both studios and NO money was even exchanged. Yet both will reap benefits. It's simply a quid pro quo situation.
 
-They don't need to be love interests. They could be thieves/mercs that DD has to deal with.

But DD has lots of characters that fill that niche, half of his rogues gallery are mercenaries and he even has guys like Paladin, who was a gray merc character before Silver Sable existed. I don't think Black Cat pr Silver Sable are essential or bring anything to the table that other DD related characters don't bring themselves. I won't complain if they appear, but I would rather have the focus be on characters from the DD mythos first.

-I don't find Mr. Fear to be nearly as interesting as Mysterio TBH.

That's debatable, after that Brubaker story, I would say Mr. Fear is far more evil then Mysterio is, Mr. Fear is a serial rapist and mass murderer at this point, his hatred of Matt Murdock seems far more intense then Mysterio's. Mysterio's motives were too convoluted in that story to work in a more streamlined setting. Mr. Fear has more of a defined history with Murdock, they went to same university, where Mr. Fear developed a jealous hatred of Murdock.

In Guardian Devil, Mysterio got cancer from inhaling smoke and chemicals during his super villain career (which wouldn't make sense if Mysterio has not been around for decades, which he wouldn't be in the MCU), he wants to go out with a blaze of glory, so he targeted Spidey for his grand finale, but changes his plans when he discovers Spidey was a clone (this was shortly after the Clone Saga) and switched his target to DD instead. Then at the end he kills himself. All of that doesn't work in a more streamlined, self contained contuinity like this show, Mr. Fear just has simpler reason for hating Murdock then Mysterio, that requires less explanation and do you really want Mysterio to kill himself during his first appearance in the MCU?

-So what? They're using The Owl as a crime boss already it appears. So how would Tombstone be any different?

Well in the Daredevil comics Kingpin and Owl serve different roles, Kingpin is the cool, confident, in control crime boss that thinks 10 steps ahead, Owl is a violent, impulsive psycho who is very short sighted and kills at even the hint of a slight. So you can contrast the two of them. What role would Tombstone play that would different from that as a crime boss?

No one is talking about shoehorning in a ton of Spidey stuff. But using SOME of it, why not? You have all of these "street-level" characters operating out of the same damn city. Frankly it'd be more disappointing NOT to see them interact.

Well I think with fewer characters, you can tell a tighter, more cohesive story, then trying to throw in every Marvel street level character and their brother in all at once. I would rather this show not become a "freak of the week" type show, more focus on a smaller cast would allow for a more involved story. The first season seems to be keeping a pretty tight focus on a small number villains, the only major villains seem to be Owl and Kingpin, Bullseye and Elektra are not in the first season. I think putting in too many characters at once would make the story lose focus, especially if they are not relevant to the main plot.

Also this is Daredevil's show, I think his villains and support cast should get priority over other street level characters. I don't mind some Spidey characters appearing down the line, but I think the focus should remain on Daredevil and characters from his mythos.
 
I'd say it's a pretty great deal for both studios and NO money was even exchanged. Yet both will reap benefits. It's simply a quid pro quo situation.


My point though was that while it cost no $, it's not without risk...especially on Marvel's side. Sony couldn't have a worse rep anyway so they have nothing to lose.
 
In season 2 I'd love an episode where Spidey teams up with Daredevil to take on Kingpin. Within this crossover, Ben Urich could get hired at the Daily Bugle too like he is in the comics.
 
So this drop the first minute of April 10th? Say 12:00am ET on April 10th all episodes will be ready to be consumed? How has it worked in the past for other Netflix exclusives? I'm asking because me and a friend plan on taking the day off to marathon it but it won't be worth it if it's released at 9pm ET, then I rather save the marathon for the 11th.
 
So this drop the first minute of April 10th? Say 12:00am ET on April 10th all episodes will be ready to be consumed? How has it worked in the past for other Netflix exclusives? I'm asking because me and a friend plan on taking the day off to marathon it but it won't be worth it if it's released at 9pm ET, then I rather save the marathon for the 11th.

That was how it worked with Marco Polo. It was available online from 12:00 am ET on the premiere date.

Not sure about other series though, I didn't had Netflix until October last year.
 
So this drop the first minute of April 10th? Say 12:00am ET on April 10th all episodes will be ready to be consumed? How has it worked in the past for other Netflix exclusives? I'm asking because me and a friend plan on taking the day off to marathon it but it won't be worth it if it's released at 9pm ET, then I rather save the marathon for the 11th.

Yes. You can watch episode 13 before episode 1.
 
So this drop the first minute of April 10th? Say 12:00am ET on April 10th all episodes will be ready to be consumed? How has it worked in the past for other Netflix exclusives? I'm asking because me and a friend plan on taking the day off to marathon it but it won't be worth it if it's released at 9pm ET, then I rather save the marathon for the 11th.
All episodes will be online at 3am EST. If you add DD to your List now, it'll show up there when it goes live.
 
Netflix could also accidentally release it 2 weeks early like they did with season 3 of House of Cards. Its gone now though.
 
So, like...no idea if this was already discussed but Daredevil is officially rated TV-MA.

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This is mind-blowing for me. In the best possible way. The best way to do Daredevil RIGHT is with a mature rating. This show gets better and better looking every day.
 
Gotta love the Golden age of television.
 
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