Darthphere Presents: Chivalry is Dead. So what?

[Darthphere]

We've heard it all before. Women complaining about how chivalry is dead. Ok, some women. This whole idea that men have gone from being white knights to insufferable cavemen has run rampant in society. Personally, my momma raised me right. I open doors the ladies, help them with their chair when sitting, help old ladies cross the street to their deaths etc. However, I will be the first to admit that this type of practice has been seen less and less. I will though, offer a counterpoint. Here's my story.

The other night I took out a lady friend on a date. This lady friend is the type of girl I like strong, driven, focused, educated (I met her in University) so it didn't surprise me that she was a self proclaimed "independent woman". Cool. She told me about how her dad was never around so it was just her and her mom. Apparently, her mom had instilled the classic independent woman values of never expecting no man to do everything for her. Again, I'm ok with this as I find it attractive that a woman is not just waiting around for Prince Charming. So to fast forward this tale, the end of the dinner came around and the waiter brought the check. He laid it down in the middle of the table in what I will call "No Man's Land", not on my side, not on hers, smack down in the middle. Now, I didn't reach for it right away not because I expected her to grab the check and pay for it but to see if she said anything. Maybe something about splitting the bill or something. Nope. She got on her phone and was texting someone (which is rude as **** by the way but that's for another thread). So after what I felt were a tense 15-20 seconds I grabbed the check and put my card in it and the waiter came by and swooped it up. She stopped texting, chatted a little bit more and I signed the bill and we headed out. Of course, opening the door for her on the way out.

So here's my point and question for the strong, independent women out there. Why is it that those certain type of women love to yell to the heavens about "I don't need no man!" and if they're a career woman "I work hard for my money, so hard for the money I don't need a man to support me!" but you still expect us to pick up the check at the end of dinner and do all the chivalrous acts that is expected of us? I'm not saying it bothers me, like I said I was raised to do such things but can you see why I think it's a bit hypocritical.


Editors Note: Darthphere loves women. Women are awesome. Do not be angry at Darthphere.

 

[enterthemadness]

I usually hold door open for women and men. More of a southern thing though...

 

[Darthphere]

I usually hold door open for women and men. More of a southern thing though...

....

 

[enterthemadness]

Well I don't recall my parents saying holding door open is nice. I live in the South and I see people hold doors for others every so often. If a person is close behind me^, I'll hold door open. Don't give me^ that dry look, pal.

 

[SpideyVille]

Yeah, that "independent woman" stuff really bothers me sometimes because it feels sort of emasculating at times. Like I hate when I am walking with a girl and she reached for the door on her side as opposed to the one that I am about to open. It doesn't matter if I like her or not, I still feel like it makes and look more like a gentleman, but by her doing so, it gives her more of a reason to say that I don't do those type of things. Same thing when you see a woman carrying something heavy and when you ask if they need help, they refuse and give an attitude if you try to carry it for them.

I think, as is with everything, there needs to be a balance. I'm not saying that a woman needs to wait around for a man to do everything for her, but woman shouldn't feel the need to take over a situation by refusing a man's help either.

 

[The Question]

I don't like the idea of romantic chivalry because I'm not comfortable with the idea of treating one group of people differently for something as arbitrary as what kind of genitals they have. I think it's a much better idea to just be kind and polite to people in general.

 

[WildcatNC]

Chivalry (in this sense) is predicated on the idea that women are weak and can't do for themselves, as well as a mating ritual of sorts that kisses their butt in the hopes of landing one eventually.

Its called self serving. Women want the best deal on all sides of the issue. Nobody really wants "equality", they want to be "favored". Its human nature and stupid men out trolling for arse have enabled the hell out of this behavior forever. They want to be "independent" till the check comes, your right.

I was raised to be a gentleman and I still am for the most part. I can see it for what it is in society for the most part though. I have met a few women who truly appreciate it and are comfortable being a stong woman, rather than just aping a man to appear "strong" like most do. Its hard to define but easy to recognize when you see it.

 

[ComicChick]

If it was me I would offer to pick up my part of the tab at least. If the guy suggests the date, I guess he'd be more inclined to pay. If it was my idea, id feel like I should pay at least my share.

I kinda feel like I'm independent but if someone wanted to help me carry something heavy ill take the help if I truly need it. I hate taking money from people & flat out refuse more than not and I hate hate hate golddiggers and moochers be they men or women.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I cant post the video here, but look up JennaMarbles on youtube. Her video Girls That Piss Me Off sums my feelings up pretty well.

 

[Bnightwing]

Well I don't recall my parents saying holding door open is nice. I live in the South and I see people hold doors for others every so often. If a person is close behind me^, I'll hold door open. Don't give me^ that dry look, pal.

Yeah. I understand this.

 

[Mr.Webs]

[YT]0Iwe_JfUYxI[/YT]

 

[Bnightwing]

I told a girl she was pretty not too long ago, and she looked at me in disgust like I wanted in her pants, when I just told her an accurate compliment. It was weird. My friend even thought it was strange.

 

[Secret Fawful]

I once said hi to a girl my age in a Walmart and she screamed right in my face. I turned around to see if she was screaming at me or someone behind me and she stopped screaming. I turned back toward her and she started screaming again on cue. I got the hell away, and looked in a mirror. Nothing out of the ordinary.

I still have no idea what the hell her problem was.

 

[SpideyVille]

I told the story awhile ago in another thread about how a female friend of mine joked around about being upset because I went into an automatic door as opposed to opening a regular door for her. But even though it was a joke, I kinda hated it because a week ago, I was walking her to her car late at night on a cold day, and when I offered to carry her heavy bag, she said no, even though I did after giving her my sweater moments later. She is definitely one of those independent chicks who can also use her looks to get what she wants, and I'll admit that I'm intimidated by those kind of girls.

It almost makes me wonder if women just expect a guy to do this and feel more offended when he offers to help as opposed to just "taking charge" and helping.

 

[BlackLantern]

this is why I bang escorts (or hookers)....none of that societal BS....

 

[Bnightwing]

I think that it isn't dead but women don't know how to take it.

 

[SpideyVille]

I think it depends on how you define it. I always used to look at chivalry as a type of way to woo or court a girl, in that you don't just approach a random girl and ask for a date, but prove that you're worthy first. But that's not really the case these days. Now people text or facebook each other to meet and ask for dates so its less of a hassle.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Everything's different when money's involved. Though I don't think this is exclusive to women or chivalry. Living with roommates again has reminded me that. They'll discuss whether to split the cost of buying FIFA 12 but can anyone buy paper towels when we run out? Nope, I get to do that. But I suppose it makes sense. After all, I'm the one who uses them. Granted its to clean up their messes, but I am the one who uses them.

 

[BlackLantern]

I think it depends on how you define it. I always used to look at chivalry as a type of way to woo or court a girl, in that you don't just approach a random girl and ask for a date, but prove that you're worthy first. But that's not really the case these days. Now people text or facebook each other to meet and ask for dates so its less of a hassle.

but I see that happening in a really magnified way today.....good example...was in a bar the other night with some friends, was getting a round from the bar and said HI to these two girls and I got the look ...the "how dare you talk to me" look

 

[SpideyVille]

but I see that happening in a really magnified way today.....good example...was in a bar the other night with some friends, was getting a round from the bar and said HI to these two girls and I got the look ...the "how dare you talk to me" look

True, but I think now they call it "spittin' out game" to a girl when you talk them into giving you their number. But there isn't that nice gesture that is necessary for that since nowadays, the way to a woman's heart is solely through her ears.

 

[BlackLantern]

I was just saying HI to be courteous....wasn't interested at all, just it was the open spot at the bar I was getting a drink at

 

[SpideyVille]

I think it also depends on the girl. Like some girls are hot and they know it, so if we pull out their chair for them to sit before a meal, it's like they expect where as before it would be considered a nice, sweet gesture. And like you said, it could be a completely innocent "Hi", but they are so into themselves that they automatically think you're hitting on them, and you'll get an attitude unless you look or act like the kind of guy they're waiting for.

 

[Anubis]

I told a girl she was pretty not too long ago, and she looked at me in disgust like I wanted in her pants, when I just told her an accurate compliment. It was weird. My friend even thought it was strange.

Tell the truth, you did want into her pants.

 

[twylight]

I have several scenarios: If a guy asks me out I expect him to pay, it's a date. If we go as friends, I specify separate checks at the beginning of the meal when ordering or when I ask for the checks at the end of the meal. If I take a girl friend out as a treat I also end up specifying one check either at the beginning of the meal when we order (which I find is usually when the waiter/waitress checks to see if it's together or separate) or when I request the check.

I like 'chivalry'. I like having doors opened for me, I like the tab being picked up by the guy on a date, I like having him offer to carry any shopping bags I may have. It's stuff my father has always done for my mother, it's stuff my parents trained me to do for my elders, or others in need, be they male or female. I was trained (and my brothers) that men help females, elderly and those in need. Girls help elderly and those in need. Maybe it's just that my family is old fashioned, but I never saw myself as the 'weaker' sex, or 'non-independant' because of it. I don't classify myself as 'strong' or 'independent' woman, I mean, what am I if I'm not either of those? I'm a human. I can function alone. I can function with others. I don't see the difference.

I dated a guy who knew I liked having doors opened for me and he never did it, ever. Our first date to a museum he only held the door open for me because there was a family behind us walking out. He'd bought something in the gift shop for himself and I held the bag for it while he put his jacket on (eff those Wisconsin winters) and I ended up carrying his bag back to the car. Never once did he offer to take it back. I find that...just not courteous.

I don't expect whatever guy I'm with to always open a door for me, or always carry shopping bags. But I do expect it sometimes as a courtesy. Just as I'd hope he'd expect me to be courteous about helping him if his hands are full, and a door needs to be opened. It's just good manners.


*babbles*

 

[Watson]

I don't really expect the guy to pay for anything. But if I pay, he better put out at the end of the night .