David Finch: "No More Ultimate Comics."

[Bubonic]

You make it sound like 616 Cap was out of touch with reality when he, er, bit the bullet. You been bedding with Sally Floyd? I agree with Darth that Cap shouldn't have a problem with women's place in society...because Cap wasn't out of touch with reality. To me, this man is America...he represented America, and we all know that Steve didn't take that lightly. He made sure he was always true to what America was and is, in essence, while at the same time holding on to those nostalgic qualities that let you know that that this guy came from an era before our own. He knows what America was, what America is, and what America should be based on all that, yet he still has that "everyman" quality that, while he is deeply respected, keeps him from being a godlike character. I mean, isn't that his schtick? The ULTIMATE Patriot (no pun intended.) That's 616 Cap.

Then over here you have Ultimate Cap who cracks jokes about the French (that's gonna do a lot to make people like America more ) and abandons much of what makes his 616 counterpart so iconic. As you might have guessed, my biggest pet peeve is the stint he had with Janet Van ****, while she was in a majorly messed up relationship and generally unstable...emotionally. Blah...he's just not Cap. Shame if that's the only Cap that someone knows, especially with Ed Brubaker's run readily available. [Mr. T]I pity the fool[/Mr. T]

At least 616 Captain was treated as the All-American respectable man instead of some American stereotype of a 50's ignorant average joe hardline conservative.

 

[Crowforge]

But the French did surrender and there were collaborators, those guys don't count as French? Not that Cap would point that out, not because he cared about how that makes the US look but because it's out of his character for him to point out 60 year old failings of a nation and really more things were going on at that time and I kind of think some of that weighed on Cap.

 

[THANOSRULES]

Ultimate Cap is more believable.

First off, I served in the army for years and never met anybody as perfect as 616 Steve Rogers. Ultimate Cap reminds me of some soldiers i knew.

Ultimate cap is a guy with some faults, like most men in the early 20s he is not perfect and he hasnt figured everything out.

616 cap was such a broad range of characters..often times hijacked to serve the purpose of writers who have no clue what soldiers are like. God, Operation Galactic Storm Cap just kills me every time i read him.

Ultimate cap is not an Icon or symbol, he is above all... a soldier. And i think the guy is very interesting.

But I dig John Walker, so what do I know.

 

[Doc Destruction]

That was pretty much my take on him, Thanos...I don't LIKE him, I find him an interesting take on the character. I don't think you're supposed to really like the guy.

 

[Bubonic]

But the French did surrender and there were collaborators, those guys don't count as French? Not that Cap would point that out, not because he cared about how that makes the US look but because it's out of his character for him to point out 60 year old failings of a nation and really more things were going on at that time and I kind of think some of that weighed on Cap.

Your not getting the point, your generalizing as if the whole country gave up, but history, as well as that panel, remind us that about half of the French nation kept on fighting... They weren't its government, but you shouldn't always judge a people based on its government.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There are plenty of American traitors and corrupt politicians, too. Hell, Cap's spent half his career fighting against the US government, in fact.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

Ultimate Cap is more believable.

First off, I served in the army for years and never met anybody as perfect as 616 Steve Rogers. Ultimate Cap reminds me of some soldiers i knew.

Ultimate cap is a guy with some faults, like most men in the early 20s he is not perfect and he hasnt figured everything out.

616 cap was such a broad range of characters..often times hijacked to serve the purpose of writers who have no clue what soldiers are like. God, Operation Galactic Storm Cap just kills me every time i read him.

Ultimate cap is not an Icon or symbol, he is above all... a soldier. And i think the guy is very interesting.

But I dig John Walker, so what do I know.

I think that's the point. 616 Cap is supposed to be more than just a soldier...a symbol, a soldier, and a man who carries the weight of a country on his shoulders. You got all these new "super-soldiers" flying around in the Ultimate Universe...so, really, what is Ult. Cap? Just another soldier. So I guess if it's your preference to have Cap just another soldier, Ult. Cap is the way to go.

But 616 Cap is the true first and the true last of his kind. Not because the SS serum made him that super-patriot, but because he was like that before the powers. He was a set apart person before the serum. He had the heart of a soldier and the heart of a patriot, more than anyone else could have or ever would have.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

On the subject of relatability: I've always thought you're not supposed to know anyone like 616 Cap. He exists as an example of what you ought to strive for. Obviously, he's more complex than that because he is a well developed character in his own right, and he has all the faults and failings of anyone else; but in his public persona, he overcomes all of those faults and shows the common person what he or she has the potential to be.

Ultimate Cap is essentially a commentary on the world's view of the United States right now, which is a sad, sad picture.

 

[storyteller]

The ultimate line didnt want to simply be a carbon copy of the 616 universe , just moving back to the starting point in modern times. But it also didnt want to be an endless what if story. What if mary jane died, what if captain america was asian..............

Captain America in the ultimate universe can have time to grow into a more respectable cap. But this guy came right off the middle of a war in an imperfect world. The ultimate line didnt start in the middle of the GOOD TWO SHOES HERO. It started in the imperfect hero.

 

[Crowforge]

So why not just make a new character? Why call a character Captain America if he's going to be a totally different guy under the mask?
I like the ideal Captain American, I don't want him to be just some guy I want him to be a better guy than I am.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

On the subject of relatability: I've always thought you're not supposed to know anyone like 616 Cap. He exists as an example of what you ought to strive for. Obviously, he's more complex than that because he is a well developed character in his own right, and he has all the faults and failings of anyone else; but in his public persona, he overcomes all of those faults and shows the common person what he or she has the potential to be.

Ultimate Cap is essentially a commentary on the world's view of the United States right now, which is a sad, sad picture.

Perfectly said. My thoughts exactly.

 

[THANOSRULES]

or you could say the opposite..that cap is an "everyman"...and thus should be very relatable.

 

[Anubis]

Relatability is for *****es to scared to try and be better.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

But... he's not. Spider-Man's the everyman.

 

[farmernudie]

^ And we all know that all us Everymen deal our wives to the devil to keep our elderly aunts alive.

You don't know how happy I was when they went this route.

It took them how many stinkin years to write this storyline reboot that finally compares to our own ordeals?? I'm realting better than ever now!

ON topic tho...i can see how relaunching the "ultimate line" could be beneficial with starting over with whole new fresh takes on these characters that could go anywhere....not stories now confined to the ultimate continuity and history. I think Amazing is actually the secret first launch of the new ultimate line they'll break out with new histories.

 

[Mr. Green]

Why do the people who hate the Ultimate Universe care if the Ultimate comics stay or go? If they aren't reading them, how exactly would it make a difference either way?

 

[J. J. Jameson]

Why do the people who hate the Ultimate Universe care if the Ultimate comics stay or go? If they aren't reading them, how exactly would it make a difference either way?

Because Ultimate Spider-Man is actually good/better than Amazing Spider-Man at the moment

 

[Darthphere]

That's lawl worthy.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

That's lawl worthy.

Why is everything Spider-Man laughable nowadays? (ASM I understand...)


...Well I have been enjoying Ult. Spidey.

 

[SouLeSS]

That interview was unbearable.

 

[Mr. Green]

Because Ultimate Spider-Man is actually good/better than Amazing Spider-Man at the moment

But if someone doesn't read ANY Ultimate comics, why are they like, "YES! Finally! **** Ultimate comics!" If they don't read them when they're coming out, why the hell do they care if they STOP coming out. They were never reading them in the first place!

 

[Mr. Green]

But the French did surrender and there were collaborators, those guys don't count as French? Not that Cap would point that out, not because he cared about how that makes the US look but because it's out of his character for him to point out 60 year old failings of a nation and really more things were going on at that time and I kind of think some of that weighed on Cap.

What in the name of **** are you talking about?

 

[Darthphere]

But if someone doesn't read ANY Ultimate comics, why are they like, "YES! Finally! **** Ultimate comics!" If they don't read them when they're coming out, why the hell do they care if they STOP coming out. They were never reading them in the first place!

Why do people continue to read Hulk is it supposedly sucks so much? These are the mysteries of the world.

 

[UK_Stu]

But if someone doesn't read ANY Ultimate comics, why are they like, "YES! Finally! **** Ultimate comics!" If they don't read them when they're coming out, why the hell do they care if they STOP coming out. They were never reading them in the first place!

Because it means Marvel will stop wasting time, money and talent on the Ultimate line and be able to focus more on the 616. With the ultimate line gone, the best artists and resources will be focused on improving the 616 universe.

 

[THANOSRULES]

The problem with 616 Cap is that he doesnt add up.

Here you have a soldier who fought, to the death, against Nazi's in WWII.

As such, a soldier, I believe cap would have a soldiers mentality over everything else.

He wouldnt revolt against the US every other week over minor philosphical differences. He wouldnt go into pompus diatribes on the battlefeild like he frequently does.

He would be a soldier.

This doesn't mean he would be a brainless killer, but I think in REALITY a captain america would be a bit more "relatable".

Of course, I NEVER ascribe 616 Caps faults to him personally, I always blame the writer at the time. And I admit that cap does behave as I would expect MOST of his time, but some things cap has done have been absolute head scratchers.

After a certain amount of "stories of cap as an Icon" the possibilites run a bit thin. The formula gets tired, and we realize after all these years..Steve Rogers is still a mystery.

I can see why some think this is cool. But If certain writers get a hold of cap, we can get a VERY different picture of him over the changing political climates of the years. ( and I admite Ultimate cap may be a representation of current "egotistical american" as others have mentioned)

Ultimate cap, is a person..he is an interesting idea and concept (although not drastically different than the whole point of John Walker). He has pros and cons, and doesnt behave in an "Iconic" way. I really dig his character.