DC getting more diverse

[Harlekin]

Isn't that kind of a stereotype in itself, though? I'm mostly Indian by ethnicity, but I don't really feel the need to see a greater number of Indian characters. The color of the characters' skin or their ethnic background has never stopped me from relating to them.

Yeah, I thought about my post multiple times, but it's just that I've often seen minorities more often than not advocating diversity.

 

[Darthphere]

As a hispanic guy and friend of Mexicans in genereal I find the new Blue Beetle so stereotypically mexican it hurts me sometimes.

 

[SonOfCthulhu]

As a hispanic guy and friend of Mexicans in genereal I find the new Blue Beetle so stereotypically mexican it hurts me sometimes.

Careful now. I said pretty much the same thing and got told I was a racist.

I applaud DC on the diversity thing, but give them a thumbs down on deciding that they should use existing superheros to accomplish it.

What's next? An Icelandic Superman? Perhaps Swedish Batman?

 

[Varient]

Isn't that kind of a stereotype in itself, though? I'm mostly Indian by ethnicity, but I don't really feel the need to see a greater number of Indian characters. The color of the characters' skin or their ethnic background has never stopped me from relating to them.

If you are commenting on my comments:

If written correctly it shouldn't matter what color or background a character comes from as long as they are relatable.

IMHO blacks don't complain overmuch as long as the black characters there are - are not stereotyped so heavily on how someone outside their experience needs to believe them to be.

Blue Beetle?
Didn't like Ted Kord being killed,.... Glad they are making an EFFORT to write the new character correctly.

Kinda wish that the same kid could've been mentored by Kord instead of flat replacing him.

New Atom?
Gonna wait and see. Ray Palmer isn't dead,.. he went subatomic,... he's done that before,.. he'll be back. In the meantime I fully expect some other tech Geek to try to step in. The fact that he's asian? Eeh,... Not sweating it unless they beat that fact into the ground.


If you were not commenting on my comments,.. disregard my last.

Peace.

 

[SonOfCthulhu]

If you are commenting on my comments:

If written correctly it shouldn't matter what color or background a character comes from as long as they are relatable.

IMHO blacks don't complain overmuch as long as the black characters there are - are not stereotyped so heavily on how someone outside their experience needs to believe them to be.

Blue Beetle?
Didn't like Ted Kord being killed,.... Glad they are making an EFFORT to write the new character correctly.

Kinda wish that the same kid could've been mentored by Kord instead of flat replacing him.

New Atom?
Gonna wait and see. Ray Palmer isn't dead,.. he went subatomic,... he's done that before,.. he'll be back. In the meantime I fully expect some other tech Geek to try to step in. The fact that he's asian? Eeh,... Not sweating it unless they beat that fact into the ground.


If you were not commenting on my comments,.. disregard my last.

Peace.

Ted couldn't teach the new kid much about the suit since he never wore it. Would be nice to see him giving Jamie some lessons on basic fighting stances and martial arts moves. That would have made for some great scenes. Too bad, more missed opportunities.

And I'd stand by my statements in the BB thread. Basically the DC marketing department is overstressing that Jamie is a hispanic character to appeal to a certain demographic.

 

[Varient]

Ted couldn't teach the new kid much about the suit since he never wore it. Would be nice to see him giving Jamie some lessons on basic fighting stances and martial arts moves. That would have made for some great scenes. Too bad, more missed opportunities.

And I'd stand by my statements in the BB thread. Basically the DC marketing department is overstressing that Jamie is a hispanic character to appeal to a certain demographic.

"IMHO blacks don't complain overmuch as long as the black characters there are - are not stereotyped so heavily on how someone outside their experience needs to believe them to be."

The same applies to any minority/group.

I can SEE DC making the effort,... kinda crude, like how Black Lightning first came out.

But they are trying.

 

[Tropico]

As a hispanic guy and friend of Mexicans in genereal I find the new Blue Beetle so stereotypically mexican it hurts me sometimes.

What about the character makes him stereotypical? I know there's the environment he's in and the cookie cutter villains he fought; but, what about Jaime makes him stereotypically MEXICAN or hispanic?

 

[Darthphere]

What about the character makes him stereotypical? I know there's the environment he's in and the cookie cutter villains he fought; but, what about Jaime makes him stereotypically MEXICAN or hispanic?

Mostly, his appearance, the way hes drawn. The fact that he has a friend named Paco. His dad being a mechanic.....its all been done before.

 

[SonOfCthulhu]

Mostly, his appearance, the way hes drawn. The fact that he has a friend named Paco. His dad being a mechanic.....its all been done before.

Dad's blue collar, Mom's white collar.

Why isn't his Dad an investment banker? Or a Computer Tech?

 

[Tropico]

Mostly, his appearance, the way hes drawn.

Sooooo, he shoud be hispanic, but not look it?

The fact that he has a friend named Paco.

I'll give you that one just on account of the name that they chose for one of the supporting cast. Chances are if you have a good amount of hispanic friends you'll always know a Paco, Jose or Tito. Please note I said CHANCES ARE, it doesn't mean it'll always be like that. The same can be said for the American Chris or Joe, you won't always know one but chances are that you will.

His dad being a mechanic.....its all been done before.

Ok, I guess I'm from a different place and didn't know that most Mexicans become mechanics. I see it as a job that anyone else can do, but I guess that's something Americans consider stereotypically Mexican.

 

[SonOfCthulhu]

I'll give you that one just on account of the name that they chose for one of the supporting cast. Chances are if you have a good amount of hispanic friends you'll always know a Paco, Jose or Tito. Please note I said CHANCES ARE, it doesn't mean it'll always be like that. The same can be said for the American Chris or Joe, you won't always know one but chances are that you will.

I know a lot of hispanic people. I don't know anyone named Paco or Tito and only one Jose. But he likes to be called "Joe". Go figure.

 

[Tropico]

Dad's blue collar, Mom's white collar.

Why isn't his Dad an investment banker? Or a Computer Tech?

Why weren't Peter Parkers surrogate parents better off? Why weren't John Henry Irons'? Why were the Kents farmers? I thought it was to put the hero through some kind of humbling experience and later show them as overcoming adversity, but I guess I was wrong. I guess when you put a minority in that kind of environment it makes him a stereotype?

 

[Tropico]

I know a lot of hispanic people. I don't know anyone named Paco or Tito and only one Jose. But he likes to be called "Joe". Go figure.

What's "a lot"? Seven or eight? A dozen?
What's your point? That what I was speaking about odds applied to you? That your friend prefers to be called a name in English? Letting us know more about you? What?

 

[SonOfCthulhu]

What's "a lot"? Seven or eight? A dozen?
What's your point? That what I was speaking about odds applied to you? That your friend prefers to be called a name in English? Letting us know more about you? What?

That names like "Paco" and "Tito" are not that common. Many individuals of hispanic decent have *gasp* everyday names like Andy, Danny and Ray. And many hispanics will try to downplay their ethnicity to fit in with mainstream American culture, especially during the teen years (which Jamie is suppose to be). Part of the who trying to "fit in" thing.

So the Paco thing is pretty blatant on DC's part.

 

[SonOfCthulhu]

Why weren't Peter Parkers surrogate parents better off? Why weren't John Henry Irons'? Why were the Kents farmers? I thought it was to put the hero through some kind of humbling experience and later show them as overcoming adversity, but I guess I was wrong. I guess when you put a minority in that kind of environment it makes him a stereotype?

The specific problem with this is that it builds up the stereotype that a Hispanic father can do a job only if it involves working with his hands. Out of all the jobs that they could have had him do the top three NOT to give him should have been mechanic, lawn care or construction.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

"Paco" is an "everyday name." You mean it's not an Anglicized name. I grew up in Miami and I know plenty of hispanic people with Anglicized names, but I know just as many with hispanic names. For every Christian or Brett I know of hispanic descent, there are Jorges and Sergios of similar descent; also, a lot of them are quite proud of their heritage and don't try to suppress it to fit in. I don't really see anything blatant about giving a hispanic kid a hispanic name. It's just as reflective of the real world for a hispanic kid to be named "Paco" as it is for a hispanic kid to be named "Jim."

The specific problem with this is that it builds up the stereotype that a Hispanic father can do a job only if it involves working with his hands. Out of all the jobs that they could have had him do the top three NOT to give him should have been mechanic, lawn care or construction.

So... if Wally West were of Mexican descent it would be stereotypical for him to hold the same mechanic job he did before OYL?

 

[Tropico]

That names like "Paco" and "Tito" are not that common.

Really? Maybe that's your experience. It isn't mine, especially with the Jose's.

Many individuals of hispanic decent have *gasp* everyday names like Andy, Danny and Ray.

LOL. I never said they didn't. Andy is not an uncommon name even outside the US, Danny isn't English exclusice either since it's just shortening Daniel which is written the same in English and Spanish; PLUS, it's a biblical name which was a very common way to name your children. I know a lot of Ray's or Rey's or Raymundo/Reymundo's.

And many hispanics will try to downplay their ethnicity to fit in with mainstream American culture, especially during the teen years (which Jamie is suppose to be). Part of the who trying to "fit in" thing.

What would be more stereotypical, the second-generation minority desperately trying to fit in or one who is proud of his heritage and doesn't care what those with no minority parents say or think?

So the Paco thing is pretty blatant on DC's part.

I already conceded on the Paco thing, dude. Look up.

I don't understand what some people want, it's really confusing and seems contradicting in my eyes. They're ok with a minority hero that doesn't look like a minority. Doesn't act like a minority and doesn't live in a place with a heavy minority concentration. So we're supposed to portray a white second generation Mexican whose name is Roger White (his mom is Mexican. His grandpa isn't although his father was born and raised in Mexico) and he lives in Massachusetts in an all white community? He has hispanic roots but otherwise his behavior is like your "average white American". So we're supposed to KNOW he's a minority but not SEE any minority elements in his life? That's what I'm getting from these complaints.

I mean, I know that you in particular, SonofC, want the old Beetle back; but what is it that people want from this new Beetle in regards to his ethnicity? I really don't understand, they say they embrace diversity but still have this long list of complaints that seems to say otherwise.

 

[Varient]

i admit the failing that I prefer my heroes to come from ordinary to humble beginings,.. to have a "common" name that fits into a background that they sprung from.
With no exceptions I can see in American society,.. the greatest heroes with "two exceptions" were any better than "well off". I say no becuase one lost his parents,.. and the other had to be stranded on an island for months.

those incidents put them on the path to being heroes.

As long as Blue Beetle doesn't do an anglo inmpression of hispanic pidgin-speak,....I'm giving it a chance.
(Imagine how embarrassing it was for me to read Black Lightning speaking "street" - lotta filler with no content in the begining,.. thank God it got better.)

 

[SonOfCthulhu]

I already conceded on the Paco thing, dude. Look up.

I don't understand what some people want, it's really confusing and seems contradicting in my eyes. They're ok with a minority hero that doesn't look like a minority. Doesn't act like a minority and doesn't live in a place with a heavy minority concentration. So we're supposed to portray a white second generation Mexican whose name is Roger White (his mom is Mexican. His grandpa isn't although his father was born and raised in Mexico) and he lives in Massachusetts in an all white community? He has hispanic roots but otherwise his behavior is like your "average white American". So we're supposed to KNOW he's a minority but not SEE any minority elements in his life? That's what I'm getting from these complaints.

I mean, I know that you in particular, SonofC, want the old Beetle back; but what is it that people want from this new Beetle in regards to his ethnicity? I really don't understand, they say they embrace diversity but still have this long list of complaints that seems to say otherwise.

Ted back would be a great start. That's a joke son.

Ethnically diverse doesn't mean that when you do a latino superhero they automatically have a friend named "Paco", a dad that works with his hands to make a living, a Mom who earns more money because she has a white collar job and an ensemble of villians right out of "American Me". There is a limit to the number of these things you can add in before you turn "ethic flavoring" into creating a character that is a walking latino stereotype. It's called restraint and DC isn't exercising very much of it in Jamie's case.

 

[SonOfCthulhu]

So... if Wally West were of Mexican descent it would be stereotypical for him to hold the same mechanic job he did before OYL?

Drop that scarecrow right there. We are dicussing Blue Beetle here.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

i dont have any problems with how the blue beetle is being written, but i can see what darthspehreis trying to say. we both live in maimi and around here there alot of mexican/cuban mechanics.

 

[BrianWilly]

Drop that scarecrow right there. We are dicussing Blue Beetle here.

I think it's an apt point, myself. There are many, many characters who are mechanics that are not Mexican. I can think of a ton of far more stereotypically "Mexican" jobs that Giffen could have stuck the man with.

 

[Darthphere]

Watch any spanish soap opera. The poor family's dad is always 95% of the time a mechanic. Why? I dont know, but this is from first hand experience.(Not saying I watch telenovelas.....)

 

[Varient]

Watch any spanish soap opera. The poor family's dad is always 95% of the time a mechanic. Why? I dont know, but this is from first hand experience.(Not saying I watch telenovelas.....)

lol

 

[Tropico]

Ted back would be a great start. That's a joke son.

No, it's not; at least not coming from you since I KNOW you want Ted back, "dad". And that's ok, most of us probably have stories of characters we loved that got bumped off, replaced or dropped off into limbo.

Ethnically diverse doesn't mean that when you do a latino superhero they automatically have a friend named "Paco", a dad that works with his hands to make a living, a Mom who earns more money because she has a white collar job and an ensemble of villians right out of "American Me". There is a limit to the number of these things you can add in before you turn "ethic flavoring" into creating a character that is a walking latino stereotype. It's called restraint and DC isn't exercising very much of it in Jamie's case.

Ok, this is the distinction that I'm making that is probably what makes me crash with what people are saying. Is the Blue Beetle COMIC using stereotypes? From what all of you have been saying I guess it is. BUT. But, is the Jaime character stereotypical? Where are his tatoos? Where is the almost non-existant mustache yet it's still there? Where is the rolled up bandana that almost covers his eyes? When did he say "andale"? What gang does he belong to? Where's his low rider? Are the only things he eats tacos? Is he speaking mangled English? Why doesn't he say "ese" all the time?

I see all of your points in regards to the things happening in his comic and I'm glad that some people finally had the guts to say how you stereotype Mexicans. Is it an incorrect depiction of the environment where he's living? Is it far fetched to say that if he lives in a hispanic heavy community his enemies would be hispanic also (yeah, they went overboard with it, I know)? Is it going to be like this always or are we going to see Jaime go on to greater things? Is it the writer's intent to set up a poor environment to show that he can be a hero while overcoming all the things around him? I don't know, those are just questions I ask myself as only the third comic comes out.