DCU Dark

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah, I really enjoyed that story. The one to follow hasn't been quite as good thus far but it has room to grow.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Anyone pick up Constantine #1? My shop ran out of copies last week so I got mine today. I thought it was pretty bad. Maybe not bad, but painfully generic. Reads like a superhero comic. Looks like a superhero comic. I'm not exactly asking for DC to go back to the Vertigo versions of these characters, but pushing the boundaries a little bit more and giving their horror books some soul, depth and atmosphere, i.e. making them much truer horror comics, would be very nice.

Given how much I disliked Snyder's Swamp Thing after issue 7, I REALLY hope the new creative team can give Swamp Thing back some of the intellectual horror of the old days.

 

[redhawk23]

Finally got to catch up on Rotworld. Who the hell made the decision to have Andrew Belanger do the art on Swamp Thing 17? His cartoony style completely clashes with everything to come before in Swamp Thing and Animal Man for the prior year and half and is really ill suited to the story at hand. Why not hire any of the fill in artists that they've had on this series, including Kano, who actually is taking over on Swamp Thing next month anyways. Very disappointing.

 

[redhawk23]

A very good review of both Swamp Thing and Animal Man 19 and the Rotworld story in general.

http://comicsbeat.com/review-breaking-the-mold-animal-man-18-and-swamp-thing-18/

 

[redhawk23]

I'm really stoked that Soule is focusing on smaller story arcs with moments intended to be memorable.

I look forward to his first two issue arc which involves Swamp Thing encountering Scarecrow and also focuses on delineating the relationship between Swamp Thing and Superman .

 

[redhawk23]

Swamp Thing 19 felt like a bit of Moore-era goodness. It was nice to see Swamp Thing just being swamp thing.

It is an interesting wrinkle that Holland once again is coming to terms with being Swamp Thing. He talks about the past All-vegetable version of himself, the plant that thought it was Alec Holland before discovering it was a plant as separate entity. The thing is, Holland is once again all vegetable, but now thinks of himself as a man trying to fulfill the mantle of the Swamp Thing rather than a plant trying to be man.

I like the tone here.

I liked rotworld, but I'm glad the series can get back to shorter arcs and things, even while still building what are sure to be larger conflicts with this mysterious "Seeder." I like the emphasis on the conflict Holland can feel when fulfilling his role of maintaining balance.

This is how I like Swamp Thing.

 

[redhawk23]

Side note: Will they ever follow up on those 3 scientist/cultists that Maxine restored out of the Rot's Hunter's 3?

 

[Maximus One]

Who knows lol. Swamp Thing was great but man oh man Animal Man was hard to read. Feel so bad for Buddy

 

[CrimsonMist]

Finally picked up a copy of Swamp Thing #19 and what a refreshing look at the character it was. I see some people praising it, but I wouldn't go that far. I certainly enjoyed it very much. it was a nice back-to-basics style story, but with numerous branching off points for a larger, epic narrative that hopefully doesn't go the way of Rotworld. I cannot express how happy I am that Charles Soule is going to be maintaining 1 to 3 issue long arcs encompassed by an overarching narrative.

That said, I was still a little put off by Soule's decision to write Swamp Thing more...street level, I guess is a good term. He talks too much like an average guy, and not an enlightened god-being. Maybe we'll get there eventually? I'm anxious for the next issue as some of Swamp Thing's actions seem a little off. Perhaps the Parliament of Trees is trying to control Swamp Thing's actions without him knowing it? His meeting with Superman, i imagine, will clear some of that up next issue.

But a nice big "LOL" at the people complaining about Superman appearing in this book and their demands that Swamp Thing not interact with the rest of the DCU. It's a good indicator of who has only read Snyder's work and nothing that came before it. Two of the best Swamp Thing issues are the Alan Moore penned DC Comics Presents issue where Swamp Thing saves Superman from dying via a kryptonian fungal disease and Rick Veitch's issue of Swamp Thing "Waiting For God(Oh!) where Swamp Thing travels to Metropolis and confronts Superman about bringing Lex Luthor to justice. Not to mention, Swamp Thing's interactions with the rest of the DCU have been a staple since the Len Wein/Berni Wrightson days right on up to Mark Miller's run under the Vertigo banner. Hell, Rick Veitch's final run on the book was nothing but that.

 

[redhawk23]

Finally picked up a copy of Swamp Thing #19 and what a refreshing look at the character it was. I see some people praising it, but I wouldn't go that far. I certainly enjoyed it very much. it was a nice back-to-basics style story, but with numerous branching off points for a larger, epic narrative that hopefully doesn't go the way of Rotworld. I cannot express how happy I am that Charles Soule is going to be maintaining 1 to 3 issue long arcs encompassed by an overarching narrative.

That said, I was still a little put off by Soule's decision to write Swamp Thing more...street level, I guess is a good term. He talks too much like an average guy, and not an enlightened god-being. Maybe we'll get there eventually? I'm anxious for the next issue as some of Swamp Thing's actions seem a little off. Perhaps the Parliament of Trees is trying to control Swamp Thing's actions without him knowing it? His meeting with Superman, i imagine, will clear some of that up next issue.

But a nice big "LOL" at the people complaining about Superman appearing in this book and their demands that Swamp Thing not interact with the rest of the DCU. It's a good indicator of who has only read Snyder's work and nothing that came before it. Two of the best Swamp Thing issues are the Alan Moore penned DC Comics Presents issue where Swamp Thing saves Superman from dying via a kryptonian fungal disease and Rick Veitch's issue of Swamp Thing "Waiting For God(Oh!) where Swamp Thing travels to Metropolis and confronts Superman about bringing Lex Luthor to justice. Not to mention, Swamp Thing's interactions with the rest of the DCU have been a staple since the Len Wein/Berni Wrightson days right on up to Mark Miller's run under the Vertigo banner. Hell, Rick Veitch's final run on the book was nothing but that.

That's because he isn't the enlightened God-being. He is in fact Alec Holland transformed to plant, rather than a plant with a case of mistaken identity.

I am glad that he is fully plant in body now however. Something I will never understand about Snyder's run is the supposed benefit of having vegetation over Alec's Human body. It greatly reduced the Swamp Thing's abilities (i.e. can't travel via the green, can't inhabit redwood trees, can't grow multiple bodies) and instead him in constant danger. How does that help him be some kind of warrior king?

I am however okay for now with the struggle of Alec's human consciousness to come to terms with his abilities and his duties. They're treating this Alec Swamp Thing as a different character essentially (he even sees himself as separate from the Swamp Thing of the past even as he shares that Swamp Thing's memories as that Swamp Thing in turn retained Alec's memories).



Also, I've never come across that Alan Moore DC Presents Story. I'll have to track that down.

 

[CrimsonMist]

That's because he isn't the enlightened God-being. He is in fact Alec Holland transformed to plant, rather than a plant with a case of mistaken identity.

I am glad that he is fully plant in body now however. Something I will never understand about Snyder's run is the supposed benefit of having vegetation over Alec's Human body. It greatly reduced the Swamp Thing's abilities (i.e. can't travel via the green, can't inhabit redwood trees, can't grow multiple bodies) and instead him in constant danger. How does that help him be some kind of warrior king?

I am however okay for now with the struggle of Alec's human consciousness to come to terms with his abilities and his duties. They're treating this Alec Swamp Thing as a different character essentially (he even sees himself as separate from the Swamp Thing of the past even as he shares that Swamp Thing's memories as that Swamp Thing in turn retained Alec's memories).



Also, I've never come across that Alan Moore DC Presents Story. I'll have to track that down.

Even if he isn't "enlightened", what with all the memories he has of being a Swamp God on top of his experience as a new Swamp Thing, I don't think it's asking too much for a little bit more philosophical insight and a tad bit more intelligent writing. He's a warrior of the green who talks like an average guy.

I'm curious as to how much of past Swamp Thing continuity is in tact, in some way or another, because those memories could provide great story lines. How does Alec Holland cope with being a Swamp Thing with the knowledge that at one point, he was a god? That he had a daughter? How does he reconcile all of that? Perhaps once he comes to terms with his abilities that will be explored? I don't know. While I didn't buy it, i browsed through Justice League Dark #19, and there's a note from editorial explaining why Swamp Thing doesn't recognize Constantine. It says that while they met during Rot World, the fact that it was an alternate timeline means that they never met in the current timeline. Considering the role Constantine played in making Swamp Thing aware of what he is, it has me hesitant.

But I agree with you that Swamp Thing now being a full-on vegetable is good and that yes, Snyder's take didn't really make sense. Being partially human under the muck, according to Snyder, was to make Swamp Thing more powerful than he was under Alan Moore's pen. So reverting him back to the Moore version doesn't make much sense. But it works now as Swamp Thing has a more defined power set.

 

[Maximus One]

Swamp Thing was pretty great this weak. Animal Man was good but I didn't really get it. Was that Red Thunder guy actually Buddy or something? Or is Red Thunder an established character or what?

 

[chamber-music]

I think Buddy was playing Red Thunder in a movie. The comic was a story within a story.

I didn't care that much for swamp thinh either. The issue seemed more like a pointless excuse for a Superman cameo.

 

[redhawk23]

They definitely should have done more either showcasing swamp things inadvertent destruction of metropolis, or preferably dived further into his fears and the dreams brought on by the drug.

Still, when paired with Soules first issue, it was an interesting little side trip.

the introduction of the woman at the end was rather abrupt though.

Here looking to the start of a new arc next mont, instead of a year and half down the road!

 

[redhawk23]

And yeah Red Thunder is a character in a film that Buddy starred in. The first half of the story received an issue a long while ago. Thematically it is reflecting Buddy's own life and the events of the animal man story. Its a bit like the black freighter stories in watchmen.

Buddy is now up for an Oscar for the role.

 

[redhawk23]

I love this cover for Animal Man 21

While seeing the conclusion of tights was interesting, I hope the story picks up a bit.

 

[chamber-music]

Anyone read Constantine?

I'm not sure how I feel about it.

It's not a bad book but I haven't managed to warmed up to it much yet.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I like Constantine in a team setting like JLD, but I have no interest in him alone. I considered picking up issue 2, though, because I saw the Spectre was in it but opted to pass.

 

[chamber-music]

The Vertigo Constatine and orginal Alan Moore Swamp Thing series debut run was great.

 

[CrimsonMist]

They definitely should have done more either showcasing swamp things inadvertent destruction of metropolis, or preferably dived further into his fears and the dreams brought on by the drug.

Still, when paired with Soules first issue, it was an interesting little side trip.

the introduction of the woman at the end was rather abrupt though.

Here looking to the start of a new arc next mont, instead of a year and half down the road!

I thought the issue's problem was that Superman gives Swamp Thing some advice, flies off, and then Swamp Thing goes back to Louisiana without saying anything. Then the issue ends. He doesn't thank Superman, nor do we get any internal monologues. It felt like the book needed another two pages. But I enjoyed the arc otherwise and am really looking forward to the next one beginning next month.

Anyone read Constantine?

I'm not sure how I feel about it.

It's not a bad book but I haven't managed to warmed up to it much yet.

I thought Constantine #1 was terrible. It looked like a superhero book and it read like a really poor superhero comic book. I thought Sargon's daughter's dialogue was about as cliche and hamfisted as it could get.

 

[redhawk23]

Demon Knights comes to an end in August. I admit I haven't read it since January but had planned to jump back into it. I guess I'll finish out the run.

It just kind of bums me out because with its cancellation DC becomes even more homogenous. Bat characters appear in nearly a quarter of the 52 but now even Demon Knights is done.

I think the 30 year time skip was a mistake.

 

[CrimsonMist]

A little late on this, but what did everyone think of Swamp Thing #21? Thought it was Soule's best issue yet. I like the artwork, but I prefer Kano's more.

I also liked the subtle references to past Swamp Thing continuity. The first was making a reference to Eyam, the third avatar of the green, who was a trilobite. He was introduced in Swamp Thing #89, in one of Doug Wheeler's first issues.

The second was a reference to the Parliament making motions to replace Swamp Thing with a new avatar, which could only be a reference to Tefe, Swamp Thing and Abby's daughter.

So there's hope that we'll see some prior continuity re-inserted for this character, atleast to a point. Snyder's significant (and stupid) changes to Arcane throws a wrench in there somewhere, because Tefe would be part Plant Elemental, part Flesh elemental, part Rot elemental and part demon(if Constantine is still partly her father, and he still has the blood of Nergal in him).

Soule could probably get around it with clever and subtle retconning if he had to. Who knows. But I'm loving this book now.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Is it still as dark as it was under Snyder? I enjoyed the first 12 or so issues but it was a little too disturbing for a PG-13 mind like mine. But I love the character.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Is it still as dark as it was under Snyder? I enjoyed the first 12 or so issues but it was a little too disturbing for a PG-13 mind like mine. But I love the character.

Not quite. It's a little more personal of a story that Soule is crafting. It focuses more on Holland coming to grips with the fact that he looks like a monster, while working for a force that he thinks may be trying to steal his humanity. Meanwhile, there's a character called Seeder that has similar powers to Swamp Thing's and he's doing things that while can ultimately help people, upsets the natural balance of things. Swamp Thing suspects ulterior motives that are none too humble.

The arcs are very small. The first two issues, 19-20, consisted of one arc. 21 is a stand-alone. 22 makes the first of a three part story. This'll be the standard for Soule's run, which makes me very happy. The story, thus far, is more character driven than it is "mega important event" driven, which is great as the personal, character driven stories were always the norm for Swamp Thing.

Also, something to note: I've been going back to collect all the uncollected back issues of Swamp Thing, starting with Vol. 2(Marty Pasko, the tail end of Rick Veitch's run, Doug Wheeler, Nancy A. Collins and Mark Millar) up through Vol. 4(The Joshua Dysart/Andy Diggle run). Having read most of Brian K. Vaughn's 20 issue run that consisted of the entirety of Vol. 3, I can easily say that Vaughn's and Snyder's runs are probably the worst in the history of the character. Many will tell you Doug Wheeler belongs there, but while his run was a bit inconsistent, his great issues outweigh the bad. Vaughn's heart was in the right place, but it ultimately fell short and suffers from trying to be too edgy. Snyder's is just hollow and flat.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I've never read anything with him in it until Snyder, so Have nothing to compare it to. But I liked what I read, it was just a tad too dark for me. I like the approach to Justice League Dark better. Darker stories and characters without the need for disturbing horror movie effects and such.