Dear DC, if you're going to power down Darkseid so much in your stories...

[Spike_x1]

...just use Mongul instead.

If Superman is going to be hit by some miscellaneous energy beam from an alien conqueror, and survive, I'd prefer it to be from the cannon on Mongul's chest over Darkseid's Omega Beams.

If Superman is going to go one-on-one with a mountain of alien muscle, get beaten down, [insert the song "Eye of the Tiger"], and then gain the upper hand against this huge threat to his physical person, then it should be against Mongul rather than Darkseid.

I mean, seriously, it's getting to the point where there's very little difference between the two characters. No disrespect to the big yellow lug; I do like Mongul's character very much, but he was originally created to be Darkseid-lite, and now, Darkseid himself has become Darkseid-lite.

I know I'm not the only one who doesn't enjoy the way 'Seid's been watered down so much in recent years. Thoughts?

 

[Assassin]

i kinda want superman to be the only thread to darkseid and mongoul.

side note/question, that fight between superman and mongoul, the one in the arena where superman set war world free, what story is that in? or was that only in the cartoon?

 

[ssj wolverine]

I don't want Darkseid to be powered down to the point where he is a pushover for Superman. I still want Supes challenged or it won't be interesting. I am very biased since Supes is my favorite DC hero. I want Superman to win most of his battles with Darkseid but barely surviving each battle.

 

[Tropico]

i kinda want superman to be the only thread to darkseid and mongoul.

side note/question, that fight between superman and mongoul, the one in the arena where superman set war world free, what story is that in? or was that only in the cartoon?

That fight took place waaay in the 90's. Supes had exiled himself to space. He had even grown a beard and had long-ish hair, he looked very gladiatorial. It was around that time that he discovered the Kryptonian Matrix (The Erradicator). I know part of the story takes place in an annual if I'm not mistaken.

As for Darkseid...I don't think any one single superhero should be able to go toe to toe with Darkseid and punk him. I've always seen him as a force you'd need a group of heroes to defeat and even then it's only because he decides to step back and not because he was beaten physically.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Darkseid should be pretty much unbeatable one-on-one for anyone other than Orion, and Orion should still be very much the underdog and probably lose 7 times out of 10.

 

[The Question]

I don't want Darkseid to be powered down to the point where he is a pushover for Superman. I still want Supes challenged or it won't be interesting. I am very biased since Supes is my favorite DC hero. I want Superman to win most of his battles with Darkseid but barely surviving each battle.

Personally, I don't think Superman should be fighting Darkseid by himself in the first place.

 

[Harlekin]

Personally, I don't think Superman should be fighting Darkseid at all. That's for Orion to handle.

 

[Spike_x1]

I just think it's sad that Darkseid is now filling the role that Mongul was specifically created for in the 80's: that of an interstellar conqueror who didn't have all of the baggage that comes with Darkseid, and was also someone who Superman could conceivably physically defeat.

And the strange thing is that quite a few people, including DC's staff, seem to be satisfied with Darkseid currently being in that niche, when Mongul was already filling it quite nicely.

Nowadays, the Omega Force doesn't carry nearly as much awe-inspiring weight for readers as it used to. Most people seem to think that it's simply an energy beam that Superman happens to be tough enough to withstand. I was actually quite surprised when The Question and I had to go to great lengths to explain that that is not what Darkseid's power is about, in the Superman Returns Sequel Forums.

 

[The Question]

Yeah. You know, I would blame the DCAU for Darkseid's current status, but Darkseid's first DCAU apearance was exactly the way he was supposed to be. He beat the holy hell out of Superman, put him in chains, and paraded him through the streets of Metropolis as a broken man. He only lost because Highfather broke the peace treaty and showed up with a huge freakin' army. Darkseid's later apearances, however, seemed like they could have been filled by Mongul. It seems like 'Seid was changed in the DCAU late on to fit how he was in the comics.

 

[Green Lantern]

That fight took place waaay in the 90's. Supes had exiled himself to space. He had even grown a beard and had long-ish hair, he looked very gladiatorial. It was around that time that he discovered the Kryptonian Matrix (The Erradicator). I know part of the story takes place in an annual if I'm not mistaken.

As for Darkseid...I don't think any one single superhero should be able to go toe to toe with Darkseid and punk him. I've always seen him as a force you'd need a group of heroes to defeat and even then it's only because he decides to step back and not because he was beaten physically.

Actually, that was Matrix itself that was masquarading as Superman in exile I don't know the whole story but I do know its covered in the "Panic In The Sky" trade...

 

[Red]

Yeah, Darkseid should be pretty much unbeatable one-on-one for anyone other than Orion, and Orion should still be very much the underdog and probably lose 7 times out of 10.

Has Orion even ever beat Darkseid outright without help?

 

[Zeu]

Maybe they´re making room for a rew intergalactic threat...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Has Orion even ever beat Darkseid outright without help?

Yeah, I think there was one knock-down, drag-out fight between them in Kirby's New Gods or 4th World series where Orion finally wins.

 

[Tropico]

Actually, that was Matrix itself that was masquarading as Superman in exile I don't know the whole story but I do know its covered in the "Panic In The Sky" trade...

Nope, Matrix (the previous Supergirl) was also in space. She looked like Superman but had a gray and blue costume (if I remember correctly). She fought Draaga and from there came her respect for him, that's why we got the Supergirl/Draaga cover that looked like the Superman/Supergirl COEI one where she's dead in his arms. Supes had gone to space when he discovered his subconscious was making him dress up as Gangbuster adn acting like a violent vigilante, supposedly because of the guilt he felt after killing the 3 evil kryptonians. When he found out he exiled himself to space. If I remember correctly he fought and defeated Draaga with less than half his power levels.

 

[Sloth7d]

It seems Darkseids becoming to Superman what Venom became to Spiderman.

 

[kytrigger]

Yeah, I think there was one knock-down, drag-out fight between them in Kirby's New Gods or 4th World series where Orion finally wins.

Wasn't he actually supposed to kill Darkseid in that (like the prophecy foretold), but Darkseid had become too popular of a character to kill? So instead, they just neutered him into what he is today.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know, I just vaguely remember seeing scans of a Kirby-drawn fight where Orion won.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Remember that X-Men / Teen Titans crossover? The Bad Guys were Dark Phoenix and Darkseid.

He went from being almost on par with Dark Phoenix to being jacked by jokers like Booster Gold.

How the mighty have fallen. The King is spinning.

 

[Eros]

Maybe the Dc staff is just tired of the Darkseid Character.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Having Batman survive a fight with Darkseid was sickening

 

[kytrigger]

Having Batman survive a fight with Darkseid was sickening

When did he fight him? I know he confronted him in Superman/Batman, but he didn't really fight him did he? I thought he just went up to him and told him he'd blow some **** up if he didn't let them go.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if he actually did fight him and live, hell, Superman went ape**** on Batman and he still survived...

 

[Silicon Surfer]

In the X-Men/Teen Titans crossover Darkseid was depicted as being well beyond the Heroes but nothing was ever suggested to say that he was anywhere near Dark Phoenix in power. In fact it is Dark Phoenix who takes Darkseid and slams him into the wall around the Source and Darkseid couldn't or wouldn't even fight back.

 

[Green Lantern]

Nope, Matrix (the previous Supergirl) was also in space. She looked like Superman but had a gray and blue costume (if I remember correctly). She fought Draaga and from there came her respect for him, that's why we got the Supergirl/Draaga cover that looked like the Superman/Supergirl COEI one where she's dead in his arms. Supes had gone to space when he discovered his subconscious was making him dress up as Gangbuster adn acting like a violent vigilante, supposedly because of the guilt he felt after killing the 3 evil kryptonians. When he found out he exiled himself to space. If I remember correctly he fought and defeated Draaga with less than half his power levels.

My bad, its been awhile since I read that one.

 

[hippie_hunter]

DC should just do the final Darkseid story and retire the character permanently.

 

[Crowforge]

Although it wouldn't surprise me if he actually did fight him and live, hell, Superman went ape**** on Batman and he still survived...

When/how/why did this happen?

Wikipedia talks about DS being too popular to kill