Dear DC, if you're going to power down Darkseid so much in your stories...

[kytrigger]

When/how/why did this happen?

Wikipedia talks about DS being too popular to kill

Maxwell Lord was using mind control on Superman, and he beat the crap out of Batman. This is leading up to Infinite Crisis when Wonder Woman then snapped Lord's neck.

And it's happened several times where they have fought an dBatman hasn't been killed easily. Although, at elast in the other times Batman usually has been planning to fight Superman, so he could prepare a plan to beat him which at least makes it a little more believable.

 

[Harlekin]

DC should just do the final Darkseid story and retire the character permanently.

I'm in full agreement. It's time Orion puts Darkseid out of his misery.

 

[kytrigger]

I'm in full agreement. It's time Orion puts Darkseid out of his misery.

While I would rather DC restore Darkseid to his full glory (who knows, give him a mini where he searches for his testicles that he seems to have lost), if it would be a choice between him staying like he is, and going out with a bagn, I would say let him die too. As long as they do that story justice and have him really die in an awesome way. Right now, I think they would kill Darkseid by having Orion fart on him.

 

[DavidTyler]

Actually, that was Matrix itself that was masquarading as Superman in exile I don't know the whole story but I do know its covered in the "Panic In The Sky" trade...

The only Superman in exile story I'm familiar with is the story arc that introduced The Eradicator.

In short, Superman went into self imposed exile after killing the Phantom Zone criminals from the pocket universe. During the course of the arc, Supes joined a small band led by The Cleric who had one of the last remaining artifacts of Krypton: A small device known as The Eradicator.

Matrix, on the other hand, was a creation of the Luthor from that pocket universe and, upon leaving that alternate reality, went to live w/Jonathan and Martha in Smallville. She didn't go on the exile w/Clark. It was his journey alone. A journey of self-discovery and forgiveness. Matrix took her own self-imposed exile much later and w/out Superman.

 

[Anubis]

You can find that story in trade. Superman:Exile

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_/...earch-alias=aps&field-keywords=Superman:Exile

Excellent read I might add.

 

[Assassin]

thanks. If its half as good as the DCAU one it would be great.

 

[Arach Knight]

In Superman/Batman: Supergirl, Darkseid kidnapped Kara. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman went to get her back. Some how, Batman took on the job of facing down Batman. I think it was Bruce's finest hour. He took a mother box, and armed himself to fight Darkseid. Darkseid is malevolant, but he has little interest in smiting weaklings. So he wails on Batman, but in a toying around fashion. During the beating, Batman makes it known that he has rigged bombs to 500 of the devices that create hell pits. Rather than assume Batman is bluffing, he believes Batman (and rightfully so), beacuse Batman is a human, and as such, humans are capable of large scale acts of horror. So Darkseid doesn't continue fighting Batman, because if dead, nobody can disarm the hell pit devices. So it all came down to losing Apokolips, or losing Kara. Darkseid chose to save Apokolips.

 

[The Leaguer]

Mongul has a chest cannon?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

If he doesn't, he should.

 

[The Leaguer]

He needs something to make up for how damn lame he is.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I know. I'd say he's like a poor man's Darkseid, but Darkseid's already got that position covered right now.

 

[The Leaguer]

I like how, out of his two best-known appearances, one of them (Reign of the Supermen) had him as Cyborg's b**** and the other is pretty much famous for how badly Supes handed his ass to him (For the Man who has Everything).

 

[Tropico]

If people are so tired of Darkseid then make the story where Apokolips is barren and he's left in a dormant state. That way he can be revived 1k years later and have a kick ass story with the Legion. If people can't appreciate him in the 21st century at least leave the door open for the character to be used at another point in time.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I like how, out of his two best-known appearances, one of them (Reign of the Supermen) had him as Cyborg's b**** and the other is pretty much famous for how badly Supes handed his ass to him (For the Man who has Everything).

But let us not forget that Mongul participated in the destruction of Coast City, the one thing that almost made Hal Jordan an interesting character.

 

[The Leaguer]

But it didn't, so he still fails.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, it was a pretty tough task. Not so much an uphill climb as it was an up-a-sheer-perpendicular-mountain-face-on-Jupiter-while-angry-crows-peck-at-your-liver climb.

 

[fifthfiend]

In Superman/Batman: Supergirl, Darkseid kidnapped Kara. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman went to get her back. Some how, Batman took on the job of facing down Batman. I think it was Bruce's finest hour. He took a mother box, and armed himself to fight Darkseid. Darkseid is malevolant, but he has little interest in smiting weaklings. So he wails on Batman, but in a toying around fashion. During the beating, Batman makes it known that he has rigged bombs to 500 of the devices that create hell pits. Rather than assume Batman is bluffing, he believes Batman (and rightfully so), beacuse Batman is a human, and as such, humans are capable of large scale acts of horror. So Darkseid doesn't continue fighting Batman, because if dead, nobody can disarm the hell pit devices. So it all came down to losing Apokolips, or losing Kara. Darkseid chose to save Apokolips.

Old school darkseid would have chosen to flash the Omega beams for like half a second, and be like oh well guess what, I just teleported all those bombs to Gotham city. Oh and if you want me to not set them off well here's Jason Effing Todd, I just resurrected him, and you're gonna go right on ahead and kill him again.

 

[trustyside-kick]

...just use Mongul instead.

If Superman is going to be hit by some miscellaneous energy beam from an alien conqueror, and survive, I'd prefer it to be from the cannon on Mongul's chest over Darkseid's Omega Beams.

If Superman is going to go one-on-one with a mountain of alien muscle, get beaten down, [insert the song "Eye of the Tiger"], and then gain the upper hand against this huge threat to his physical person, then it should be against Mongul rather than Darkseid.

I mean, seriously, it's getting to the point where there's very little difference between the two characters. No disrespect to the big yellow lug; I do like Mongul's character very much, but he was originally created to be Darkseid-lite, and now, Darkseid himself has become Darkseid-lite.

I know I'm not the only one who doesn't enjoy the way 'Seid's been watered down so much in recent years. Thoughts?

No offense to huge Superman fans...but this is why I've stayed away from actually reading the series for so long. I love Supes and his rogues and all but...stuff like this leads to boring/bad story telling.

Darkseid diserves justice for all the depowering he has had over the years.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

That fight took place waaay in the 90's. Supes had exiled himself to space. He had even grown a beard and had long-ish hair, he looked very gladiatorial. It was around that time that he discovered the Kryptonian Matrix (The Erradicator). I know part of the story takes place in an annual if I'm not mistaken.

As for Darkseid...I don't think any one single superhero should be able to go toe to toe with Darkseid and punk him. I've always seen him as a force you'd need a group of heroes to defeat and even then it's only because he decides to step back and not because he was beaten physically.

I think it's pretty obvious that Batman should be able to beat him.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Batman shouldn't be able to take down Darkseid or take hits from him.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Old school darkseid would have chosen to flash the Omega beams for like half a second, and be like oh well guess what, I just teleported all those bombs to Gotham city. Oh and if you want me to not set them off well here's Jason Effing Todd, I just resurrected him, and you're gonna go right on ahead and kill him again.

Yes, and I'm remembering why it would have ever made sense to depower Darkseid.

As soon as they took him out of the New Gods setting and put those characters into a larger DCU context, he was unacceptable as an invincible, do anything he wants god. He had to be depowered.

I'm almost finding myself in favor of a massive retcon that erases the New Gods from continuity and places them in their own universe. But not quite.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

If people are so tired of Darkseid then make the story where Apokolips is barren and he's left in a dormant state. That way he can be revived 1k years later and have a kick ass story with the Legion. If people can't appreciate him in the 21st century at least leave the door open for the character to be used at another point in time.

It's not that he's unappreciated. It's that he's depowered to the point of being just another guy.

 

[DavidTyler]

Yes, and I'm remembering why it would have ever made sense to depower Darkseid.

As soon as they took him out of the New Gods setting and put those characters into a larger DCU context, he was unacceptable as an invincible, do anything he wants god. He had to be depowered.

I'm almost finding myself in favor of a massive retcon that erases the New Gods from continuity and places them in their own universe. But not quite.

It reads like your thinking the only use for Darksied is a 'one-on-one' physical confrontation. Darksied is not and should never be considered a brawler. He should be a thinking man's adversary. Not even Superman should be able to best him in a fight - leaving the only means of defeat to be intellectual - kind of what Batman did in the Supergirl story cited or how he was defeated in that great STAS episode where Turpin is killed. He had to accept that the human race was never going to willingly go under his heel and he came to respect that at some level. He left willingly. It's that kind of thing that sets him apart from a Mongul.

 

[The Question]

Yes, and I'm remembering why it would have ever made sense to depower Darkseid.

As soon as they took him out of the New Gods setting and put those characters into a larger DCU context, he was unacceptable as an invincible, do anything he wants god. He had to be depowered.

I'm almost finding myself in favor of a massive retcon that erases the New Gods from continuity and places them in their own universe. But not quite.

The New Gods were always apart of the DCU. And anyway, it isn't unacceptable for him to have his old power levels. It's unnaceptable for someone of his level to be reduced to being merely a Superman villain. He should be a threat to the entire DCU, not just one guy.

 

[Tropico]

It's not that he's unappreciated. It's that he's depowered to the point of being just another guy.

You obviously haven't seen all the posts saying he should be killed, that's why I posted what I did. As mentioned before, Darkseid, for all his power, is a thinker; he's not some raving berserker. The one who likes engaging in physical fights is his son, Kalibak, he's the one constantly getting his ass kicked. I've yet to read a Legion story where Darkseid has been dissed like he has been in the "present" DCU. It's still a great character, I stand by my first post.