Discussion: Evolution

[Mr Sparkle]

it's not a low blow, it's a direct one.
be careful when you promise someone a life changing experience and then you don't deliver.
expect complaints.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Didn't you hear? They were planted there by God to test our faith.

actually, alot of scientists believe that pre-human remains are acutally either young and/or deformed humans (deformed through either desease or inbreeding).

 

[Spider-Who?]

it's not a low blow, it's a direct one.
be careful when you promise someone a life changing experience and then you don't deliver.
expect complaints.

again, whats the deal with that? i never insulted you. and i most defiantly never promised anything.

again, i would love to see you draw one single frame, heck, even just a face, nothing else. can't do it, huh? then quit bein a *****.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

can't do it, huh? then quit bein a *****.

I like that you ask me questions and then answer them yourself.
do you really think it would be that difficult to do?

 

[ScottyBBadd]

I am renaming this thread. Please note that I will not tolerate any more threads regarding this topic. If you have something to say for or against it, you may do so here.

Thank you.

Good call, DM.

 

[Halcohol]

actually, alot of scientists believe that pre-human remains are acutally either young and/or deformed humans (deformed through either desease or inbreeding).

From what I can tell, they inbred so much that there was a whole damn species full of 'em.

 

[Joker]

good point. lets say we look at the shark. millions of years ago, it was exactly the same. and yet, wouldnt you think the shark would have developed a way to protect its gills (the achiles heel to them?).

or what about the polar bear? it spends so much time in the water, why hasnt it developed a blow hole, gills, flippers, etc to give it the ability to be even more effective in the water?

and what about that fish, (i apologize, i forget its name - the ceta-somethin; the one scientists said died out millions of years ago and recently found alive), that fish hasnt changed at all when compared to its fossils.

the list goes on, i'm sure.

Sharks havent developed anything to cover there gills because they have no natural predators that hunt them using that weakness. If there was some animal, lets say, a very agressive sword fish, who kept attacking sharks by stabbing them in the gills, then you would have seen this adaptation. The same basic argument could be applied to any of your examples. Evolution doesnt fix EVERY single problem in every animal, only the ones that cause the species to flounder and fail. Evolve or die.

 

[Spider-Who?]

I like that you ask me questions and then answer them yourself.
do you really think it would be that difficult to do?

if it isnt, then try. for me. come on, you can do it. i have faith in you. and then try to animate a full 2 minutes and 30some odd seconds of animation, including dialouge, music, sound effects, etc - oh, and you gotta do it in less then a month. but go ahead, Sparkle - its only a stupid cartoon, i'm sure you can totally best me at it.

 

[Motown Marvel]

good point. lets say we look at the shark. millions of years ago, it was exactly the same. and yet, wouldnt you think the shark would have developed a way to protect its gills (the achiles heel to them?).

or what about the polar bear? it spends so much time in the water, why hasnt it developed a blow hole, gills, flippers, etc to give it the ability to be even more effective in the water?

and what about that fish, (i apologize, i forget its name - the ceta-somethin; the one scientists said died out millions of years ago and recently found alive), that fish hasnt changed at all when compared to its fossils.

the list goes on, i'm sure.

thats a pretty b.s. argument. no one ever said that evolution causes a species to evolve to the point where its indestructable and infallable. by this logic, i can say "if god truly loves his creation then why did he let the holocaust happen?".

 

[Motown Marvel]

if it isnt, then try. for me. come on, you can do it. i have faith in you. and then try to animate a full 2 minutes and 30some odd seconds of animation, including dialouge, music, sound effects, etc - oh, and you gotta do it in less then a month. but go ahead, Sparkle - its only a stupid cartoon, i'm sure you can totally best me at it.

i can do that....did i just prove your creationism theory wrong?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

if it isnt, then try. for me. come on, you can do it. i have faith in you. and then try to animate a full 2 minutes and 30some odd seconds of animation, including dialouge, music, sound effects, etc - oh, and you gotta do it in less then a month. but go ahead, Sparkle - its only a stupid cartoon, i'm sure you can totally best me at it.

HA! are you seriously asking me to animate a 2 minute short for you?t:
I have the best idea for a rolleyes smiley, I'm going to get on that.
it's going to be animated

 

[Lighthouse]

thats a pretty b.s. argument. no one ever said that evolution causes a species to evolve to the point where its indestructable and infallable. by this logic, i can say "if god truly loves his creation then why did he let the holocaust happen?".

That and species change as the world changes. Some abilities can be lost while new abilities gained.

 

[CConn]

or what about the polar bear? it spends so much time in the water, why hasnt it developed a blow hole, gills, flippers, etc to give it the ability to be even more effective in the water?.

Polar Bears may have not changed, but what about Penguins? Birds that can't fly, yet have amazing swimming abilities. Whose very fur is crafted as a disguise to fool both underwater predators and dangers from above. They spend half their lives in water, and unsurprisingly, their bodies are have been tailored for it. But, they haven't always been as perfectly tailored. The oldest known fossil from 62 million years ago - while still flightless - wasn't nearly as well adapted to aquatic life as modern penguins.

 

[Halcohol]

Polar Bears may have not changed, but what about Penguins? Birds that can't fly, yet have amazing swimming abilities. Whose very fur is crafted as a disguise to fool both underwater predators and dangers from above. They spend half their lives in water, and unsurprisingly, their bodies are have been tailored for it. But, they haven't always been as perfectly tailored. The oldest known fossil from 62 million years ago - while still flightless - wasn't nearly as well adapted to aquatic life as modern penguins.

Exactly. I'm sure if polar bears still exist in a few million years they'll have evolved slightly to resemble sea lions.

If they're still around

 

[CConn]

I'm waiting for Spider-Who? to tell me the old penguin fossils are different because they're mom and dad were siblings.

 

[Lighthouse]

Exactly. I'm sure if polar bears still exist in a few million years they'll have evolved slightly to resemble sea lions.

If they're still around

Or they'll just become more practical.

 

[Spider-Who?]

I'm waiting for Spider-Who? to tell me the old penguin fossils are different because they're mom and dad were siblings.

sorry, my computer decided to be ******ed.

if the penguin thing is true, thats cool. As i said earlier, I do not argue adaptation, but changing from one species to another (ie monkey to man, terrible lizard to bird, etc) is something I find hard to swallow.

 

[Spider-Who?]

i can do that....did i just prove your creationism theory wrong?

huh? what?

first off, never once did I mention a creationist theory, there are people who dont precribe to that theory and find evolution hard to swallow as well. second, if you can animate, awesome. but i dont think a simple animation could debunk a theory/idea/whatever - if it could, thatd be one hell of a video.

 

[Joker]

sorry, my computer decided to be ******ed.

if the penguin thing is true, thats cool. As i said earlier, I do not argue adaptation, but changing from one species to another (ie monkey to man, terrible lizard to bird, etc) is something I find hard to swallow.

all evolution is is a series of adaptations...dinosaurs for example...

giant, slow moving doesnt work, so they get smaller and faster. the food is up too high now though, so they develop hollow bones for jumping, and eventually wings. feathers work better for flying, so eventually they are developed. there you go, bird from dinosaur.

Man from monkey is even easier. Being dumb doesnt work, we get smarter. We develop housing, and fire, so therefore we no longer need to be covered in fur to survive harsh winters, therefore we lose it over time as those born with less and less fur dont die off. That's about all you really need to do to get from monkey to man.

 

[Spider-Who?]

HA! are you seriously asking me to animate a 2 minute short for you?t:
I have the best idea for a rolleyes smiley, I'm going to get on that.
it's going to be animated

seriously? no. because you cant even give an adquate response to my post(s) concerning your original comment. but then again, it doesnt matter, everyone is intitled to their opinion, regardless of how much grey matter lies between their ears. good for you, you can think (alittle anyway), you're better off then some

 

[Spider-Who?]

all evolution is is a series of adaptations...dinosaurs for example...

giant, slow moving doesnt work, so they get smaller and faster. the food is up too high now though, so they develop hollow bones for jumping, and eventually wings. feathers work better for flying, so eventually they are developed. there you go, bird from dinosaur.

Man from monkey is even easier. Being dumb doesnt work, we get smarter. We develop housing, and fire, so therefore we no longer need to be covered in fur to survive harsh winters, therefore we lose it over time as those born with less and less fur dont die off. That's about all you really need to do to get from monkey to man.

yes, i understand the logistics behind it. i just dont buy it.

if evolution (in the examples you have given) is neccesary for a species to survive ("survival of the fittest" and all), then why do we still have reptiles? why do we still have an over abundance of monkeys and apes? if evolve or die is the way of the game, then there should be ONLY the "Evolved" species, otherwise there was no need to evolve in the first place.

 

[Joker]

because those species have not been put into a situation where if they dont evolve that they will die...reptiles and monkeys and apes are usually very well suited to living in there enviroments, so say, all monkeys turning into people-like creatures is not neccesary, because it is simply not required for there species to survive

 

[Won '08]

yes, i understand the logistics behind it. i just dont buy it.

if evolution (in the examples you have given) is neccesary for a species to survive ("survival of the fittest" and all), then why do we still have reptiles? why do we still have an over abundance of monkeys and apes? if evolve or die is the way of the game, then there should be ONLY the "Evolved" species, otherwise there was no need to evolve in the first place.

You cant possibly be serious.

 

[Mr Jide]

Wheres the evidence that a deity made of pure energy came to earth and gave us this "ability"?

So you think, life decided to created itself and everything else that comes along with it is convenience?
I'm a christian through and through. I would say to people go and read the bible but that is pointless because, there isn't a single person alive who can decide to 1 day pick up a bible, read and say they understand it because they dont and wont. Understanding the bible and what it teaches takes yeras of serious study. So...

 

[Canadian Rider]

And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
- Lev. 11:6

Thanks Wilhelm. I did wonder about that and did some online investigation. Apparently the translation may be the issue.

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=178

I believe that I covered the other three items raised but please correct me if I missed something.

Have a great day -- about to go into a meeting (just so you know I wasn't running away again to rotate my cleavage ...) so I will check back and perhaps we can dialogue on this at that time.

Cheers. CR.