Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues

[Franklin Richards]

Which member of the GOP will apologize to him?

 

[Kelly]

Doubtful any, after what happened the last time.

 

[DACrowe]

They'll apologize in private and on Fox News or in press release as they did last time. They'll just not make sure they do it to someone at BP's face (Boehner, Bachmann, Barbor and over 150 House GOP representatives all released and/or said what Barton did, Barton just did it in the most publicly taboo place (to BP's CEO).

But that doesn't change their genuine rationale on the matter.

 

[chaseter]

You seem to ignore most of the businesses in NAT GAS, E-15, hydrogen cells, electric vehicles, etc. want government investment. You are obviously ignoring that many industries are frustrated there is no Renewable Energy Standard in this country as it leaves the future uncertain and are looking at other things.

And most of all you seem to forget we're on a timetable here. Green technology is the future because oil is going to become very, very expensive over the next 50 years when our global population nearly doubles. And if you look at the lack of glaciers in Glacier National Park or the polar bears drowning this summer...there are more than just energy issues at hand.

But, sticking the head in the sand is the go-to strategy these days.

I am all for green technology. I am not all for the government creating those jobs under their payroll and why anyone would think the government trying to develop new technology will be fruitful makes me laugh.

Plus, I would assume that the bill was extremely lengthy, filled with loopholes, and laden with tons of pork. Look at all the countries that have cap and trade...how is it working out for them?

 

[DACrowe]

Who said creating them under the government payroll? The government can be used to subsidize green technology innovation and incentivize the market to move green over time as opposed to perpetuating our never-ending addiction to oil.

And government cannot create an industry?



Look at how aviation exploded in the 1930s and particularly during WWII when the government subsidized all this major innovation in aviation technology. Sure it existed since the Wright Brothers flew in 1903. And there were major successes in aviation.

But they were pioneers. Adventurers. Being a pilot in the 1920s and 1930s, at least of the major continental and transocean flights, was like being an explorer. Charles Lindbergh, Amelia Earhart and Howard Hughes were crazy risk-takers.

The huge boom of commercial aviation? Post-WWII after the government threw millions of dollars into the industry and grew what would become the definitive mode of transportation in the 20th century and now the dawn of the 21st. Just as it did the railroads in the 19th century.

Saying the government has no place in green technology is ideologically naive and based more on a partisan talking point about fearing "big government" than an actually sound policy debate.

 

[chaseter]

So government should force innovation on companies? It is fine if they provide incentives, but that isn't the government creating green jobs...which is what Obama was wanting. He wanted to create government green jobs in the short term to help lower unemployment numbers. He wanted government green jobs.

 

[Marx]

The government has done alot of good when it comes to innovation. I still think healthy competition between the government and the private sector would do alot of good for green tech.

 

[chaseter]

The government would be outshined and force it to have to be tax payer subsidized like every government entity to date because government and efficiency are not synonymous.

 

[DACrowe]

So government should force innovation on companies? It is fine if they provide incentives, but that isn't the government creating green jobs...which is what Obama was wanting. He wanted to create government green jobs in the short term to help lower unemployment numbers. He wanted government green jobs.

Cap and Trade is an incentive (a stick). I thought that was your big hang-up? "Government green jobs?" He's trying to spur growth by putting more money into battery and Natural Gas vehicles to try and make them more affordable, to bring the costs down. He also is trying to push the government to buying and upgrading their buildings to greener standards. As the federal government is 38 percent of the GDP, that creates some nice incentives to try to get the private market to appeal to that.

These are private jobs (contractors or researchers right now) being created. Carbon pricing makes carbon more expensive thus incentivizes energy companies and utilities to look at other means to not use carbon and as a byproduct reducing our national consumption of oil and also carbon emissions. That is what I thought you were obsessed about.

That is not the government creating jobs. It is making (oil and gas) energy more expensive to speed-up the process of reducing our overall dependency as energy industries are reluctant to change as of all the money in oil. But that is not what you describe.

 

[chaseter]

Giving money in tax credits and taxing companies because they aren't meeting your standards are two different things.

 

[Paradoxium]

Cap and Trade is an incentive (a stick). I thought that was your big hang-up? "Government green jobs?" He's trying to spur growth by putting more money into battery and Natural Gas vehicles to try and make them more affordable, to bring the costs down. He also is trying to push the government to buying and upgrading their buildings to greener standards. As the federal government is 38 percent of the GDP, that creates some nice incentives to try to get the private market to appeal to that.

These are private jobs (contractors or researchers right now) being created. Carbon pricing makes carbon more expensive thus incentivizes energy companies and utilities to look at other means to not use carbon and as a byproduct reducing our national consumption of oil and also carbon emissions. That is what I thought you were obsessed about.

That is not the government creating jobs. It is making (oil and gas) energy more expensive to speed-up the process of reducing our overall dependency as energy industries are reluctant to change as of all the money in oil. But that is not what you describe.

On noes, Thomas Friedman surfs SHH

 

[chaseter]

And again, oil and gas companies pass the newly created expenses from the government down to the people that Obama claims he will help. If oil and gas companies are hit with a 15% tax increase, who do you think that is going to hurt the worst?

 

[Paradoxium]

I hear a lot of hilarious stories how these green stimulus jobs end going overseas to non-Americans, or the companies go bankrupt.

 

[Marx]

BREAKING NEWS: MAJOR OIL SPILL ON KALAMAZOO RIVER
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/07/state_of_emergency_declared_as.htmlhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/27/michigan-oil-spill-among_n_661196.html

Wow...

 

[chaseter]

We had an oil pipeline burst in the brazos river last month and they shut down the lake that we go to every weekend. Luckily they got it cleaned up after a few weeks.

It is sad how many oil spills have happened in half a year.

 

[Paradoxium]

BP Takes $32.2 Billion Write-Off on Spill; Earns $9.9 Billion Tax Credit
Half of BP's Escrow account will be paid by the taxpayers.

Awesome

 

[DACrowe]

On noes, Thomas Friedman surfs SHH

I actually rarely read Friedman. But I am using common sense, so if that is what he is saying than Mr. Friedman again proves he is a very smart man.

 

[Marx]

BP Takes $32.2 Billion Write-Off on Spill; Earns $9.9 Billion Tax Credit
Half of BP's Escrow account will be paid by the taxpayers.

Awesome

I would sincerely hope BP declines that tax credit. I believe it was Boeing (or Exxon?) that qualified for a similar credit and they were pressured into declining it.

 

[Kelly]

If they take it, it may mean quicker pay out to the people of the Gulf that need it....just saying...

 

[Marx]

If they take it, it may mean quicker pay out to the people of the Gulf that need it....just saying...

...but if that means taxpayer dollars footing the bill?

 

[StorminNorman]

Good news is that it sounds like Bay County on East is looking to avoid major oil damage.

Bad news is that it means termination of thousands of employees - myself included. I'm trying to get up with a contractor in Lousiana or Texas now.

 

[Marx]

Good news is that it sounds like Bay County on East is looking to avoid major oil damage.

Bad news is that it means termination of thousands of employees - myself included. I'm trying to get up with a contractor in Lousiana or Texas now.

I'm sorry to hear that man...I know you were really excited to get the position.

 

[StorminNorman]

If I get a job in Michigan maybe I can buy you a beer in Ohio

 

[Marx]

If I get a job in Michigan maybe I can buy you a beer in Ohio

 

[VampElvis]

Heard on the radio at lunch Jay Leno is doing a benefit show at the Beau Rivage in Biloxi, 100% of ticket sales got to charity.

Time to step up team coco!