🇺🇸 Discussion: Guns, The Second Amendment, NRA - Part II

[Mike5575]

They are being talked about for a reason, but you are too damn blind to see it....It isn't JUST ABOUT AR-15, any semi-automatic weapon (hand gun or rifle) that can fire off 100 rounds in seconds IS A PROBLEM. Do you not get that?

No one has said the "shootings will stop" good god stop simplifying this to try and make it sound plausible to a 5 year old. We are adults here....

The problem with the gun control crowd is that they focus exclusively on the gun. Gun control is all about being soft on criminals and then they wonder why these mass shootings occur. What we witnessed at Parkland was the singular greatest law enforcement failure in history. Thanks to The Youth Promise Act, local law enforcement was encouraged not to arrest the psycho, despite having more than enough info to act. What do democrats do? Instead of pointing out their own mistakes, they punish law abiding citizens by limiting their freedoms. In Vermont, they just increased the age to buy a firearm to 21, stripping young adults of their constitutional rights. Typical.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The problem with the gun control crowd is that they focus exclusively on the gun. Gun control is all about being soft on criminals and then they wonder why these mass shootings occur. What we witnessed at Parkland was the singular greatest law enforcement failure in history. Thanks to The Youth Promise Act, local law enforcement was encouraged not to arrest the psycho, despite having more than enough info to act. What do democrats do? Instead of pointing out their own mistakes, they punish law abiding citizens by limiting their freedoms. In Vermont, they just increased the age to buy a firearm to 21, stripping young adults of their constitutional rights. Typical.

And this is not true, at all. Plenty of focus on who gets access to guns at all. How a mental healthy official or family member should be able to contact police. Look at the fight to keep guns out of those on the no fly list or those with a history of domestic violence. And yes, the age of the person.

 

[ComicBookNerd]

The mentally ill restriction concerns me. Who qualifies as mentally unfit to carry a fire arm exactly? Why should the mentally ill be denied the ability to defend themselves like everyone else? The mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violence than they are of committing violence, and America has a dark history of treating the mentally ill like they’re subhuman.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The problem with the gun control crowd is that they focus exclusively on the gun. Gun control is all about being soft on criminals and then they wonder why these mass shootings occur. What we witnessed at Parkland was the singular greatest law enforcement failure in history. Thanks to The Youth Promise Act, local law enforcement was encouraged not to arrest the psycho, despite having more than enough info to act. What do democrats do? Instead of pointing out their own mistakes, they punish law abiding citizens by limiting their freedoms. In Vermont, they just increased the age to buy a firearm to 21, stripping young adults of their constitutional rights. Typical.

Uh... What actions have Republicans taken over the years to strengthen the mental health system in the U.S. would be my counter argument? Or... Has their loyalty to cutting taxes (and thereby services of many stripes within healthcare ) contributed to in some way to lack of access and resources to both individuals and local authorities?

What I find typical is strawman arguments by alarmists with no sense of how their fellow citizens actually think or believe.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The mentally ill restriction concerns me. Who qualifies as mentally unfit to carry a fire arm exactly? Why should the mentally ill be denied the ability to defend themselves like everyone else? The mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violence than they are of committing violence, and America has a dark history of treating the mentally ill like they’re subhuman.

If someone is mentality ill and considering hurting themselves or others, they shouldn't have access to guns. If someone is not willing to take their meds and is delusion, they should not have access to weapons.

 

[ComicBookNerd]

If someone is mentality ill and considering hurting themselves or others, they shouldn't have access to guns. If someone is not willing to take their meds and is delusion, they should not have access to weapons.

Hurting yourself & others should also apply to those who aren’t mentally ill. Also, taking away rights from the mentally ill be a deterrent for seeking help, so you’re more likely to have people who are mentally ill & undiagnosed, which doesn’t help society at all.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Hurting yourself & others should also apply to those who aren’t mentally ill. Also, taking away rights from the mentally ill be a deterrent for seeking help, so you’re more likely to have people who are mentally ill & undiagnosed, which doesn’t help society at all.

And this is why family reporting is important. So someone can be examined.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Hurting yourself & others should also apply to those who aren’t mentally ill. Also, taking away rights from the mentally ill be a deterrent for seeking help, so you’re more likely to have people who are mentally ill & undiagnosed, which doesn’t help society at all.

So private companies should never be allowed to stop someone from being in their employment if they are diagnosed with a severe mental illness? Would this be your standard for pilots, heavy machinery operators or surgeons? This isn't an attack on the mentally ill, nor am I stating this as a one size fits all thing. We aren't talking about someone going to the psychiatrist for anything ranging from intimacy issues to addictions. We are talking about those that could well truly be a danger to themselves and others. There is a spectrum.

If you think that private companies should have policies that infringe on a person's ability to be employed, for the sake of public safety then I fail to see the issue with keeping guns out of their hands. No one said such screening would be 100% or that it would always be fair, but like those companies that don't want people with diagnosed mental ailments that might put others at risk it is erring on the side of caution and responsibility.

So up or down, yes or no... Should an airline employ someone that is mentally unstable to act as a pilot? Would you be comfortable knowing that an airline didn't have any policy regarding the mental fitness of it's pilots?

 

[ComicBookNerd]

So private companies should never be allowed to stop someone from being in their employment if they are diagnosed with a severe mental illness? Would this be your standard for pilots, heavy machinery operators or surgeons? This isn't an attack on the mentally ill, nor am I stating this as a one size fits all thing. We aren't talking about someone going to the psychiatrist for anything ranging from intimacy issues to addictions. We are talking about those that could well truly be a danger to themselves and others. There is a spectrum.

If you think that private companies should have policies that infringe on a person's ability to be employed, for the sake of public safety then I fail to see the issue with keeping guns out of their hands. No one said such screening would be 100% or that it would always be fair, but like those companies that don't want people with diagnosed mental ailments that might put others at risk it is erring on the side of caution and responsibility.

So up or down, yes or no... Should an airline employ someone that is mentally unstable to act as a pilot? Would you be comfortable knowing that an airline didn't have any policy regarding the mental fitness of it's pilots?

Being a pilot isn’t considered a fundamental right in America while the 2nd amendment is. Also, if someone with a mental disability has proven they could perform the duties of a pilot, then I have no problems with them being a pilot. Keep in mind that Howard Hughes had mental disabilities.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Being a pilot isn’t considered a fundamental right in America while the 2nd amendment is. Also, if someone with a mental disability has proven they could perform the duties of a pilot, then I have no problems with them being a pilot. Keep in mind that Howard Hughes had mental disabilities.

Howard Hughes wasn't regularly flying commercial flights with passengers though, was he? Again... we are speaking in terms of public safety. Please don't deflect and answer. Why should mental health considerations be stricter for various jobs (uh... Including ones like the military and law enforcement ) but not when it comes to fire arms?

We keep hearing "it's not JUST about guns! It's a mental health issue!" from one side. Now... We cannot bring up mental health either?

So the answer is as always to do nothing I guess?

Also... Howard Hughes crashed a plane in 1946, so... yeah.

 

[ComicBookNerd]

Howard Hughes wasn't regularly flying commercial flights with passengers though, was he? Again... we are speaking in terms of public safety. Please don't deflect and answer. Why should mental health considerations be stricter for various jobs (uh... Including ones like the military and law enforcement ) but not when it comes to fire arms?

We keep hearing "it's not JUST about guns! It's a mental health issue!" from one side. Now... We cannot bring up mental health either?

So the answer is as always to do nothing I guess?

Also... Howard Hughes crashed a plane in 1946, so... yeah.

Wait, we’re talking about gun rights, you brought up being a pilot, and you’re accusing me of deflecting?

 

[squeekness]

If someone is mentality ill and considering hurting themselves or others, they shouldn't have access to guns. If someone is not willing to take their meds and is delusion, they should not have access to weapons.

This.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Wait, we’re talking about gun rights, you brought up being a pilot, and you’re accusing me of deflecting?

There is sceening for mental health for law enforcement and the military. There is screening for mental health in other occupations where public safety is at stake.

Follow along please.

Because frankly it seems you just prefer the status quo. Just say that then.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

There is already restrictions on owning guns. A 5 year old can't buy one. You can't take them to many public places. Is that not okay?

 

[ComicBookNerd]

There is sceening for mental health for law enforcement and the military. There is screening for mental health in other occupations where public safety is at stake.

Follow along please.

Because frankly it seems you just prefer the status quo. Just say that then.

I oppose discrimination against those with mental issues. Just because someone has mental issues, doesn’t mean they’ll act out violently.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I oppose discrimination against those with mental issues. Just because someone has mental issues, doesn’t mean they’ll act out violently.

You are making it sound like it applies to everyone who has a mental issue. It clearly doesn't. Protecting those that pose a danger to themselves and others as diagnosed by a doctor is discrimination now? Is it discrimination when someone is placed in a facility to protect them from doing harm to themselves or others?

 

[ComicBookNerd]

You are making it sound like it applies to everyone who has a mental issue. It clearly doesn't. Protecting those that pose a danger to themselves and others as diagnosed by a doctor is discrimination now? Is it discrimination when someone is placed in a facility to protect them from doing harm to themselves or others?

Stuff like this will make people less likely to be honest with their doctors, or decide to not see doctors at all. All it does is add a negative stigma to getting psychological treatment.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Stuff like this will make people less likely to be honest with their doctors, or decide to not see doctors at all. All it does is add a negative stigma to getting psychological treatment.

Only for those who value guns over their own health and safety. Though you continue to ignore reporting by family. Why?

 

[ComicBookNerd]

Only for those who value guns over their own health and safety. Though you continue to ignore reporting by family. Why?

You are aware that the negative stigmas associated with having psychological problems are a major reason people don’t seek help, right? Those are just social stigmas, now you’re saying we should add a formal stigma that goes on their record.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You are aware that the negative stigmas associated with having psychological problems are a major reason people don’t seek help, right? Those are just social stigmas, now your saying we should add a formal stigma that goes on their record.

https://mentalillnesspolicy.org/ivc/involuntary-commitment-concepts.html

 

[TheCommissioner]

I oppose discrimination against those with mental issues. Just because someone has mental issues, doesn’t mean they’ll act out violently.

so youre ok with reading stories almost weekly about wives/girlfriends being murdered by their exes because they decided to leave and a sefish disturbed man decided that no one can have her

also

A mostly naked man shot up a Waffle House, killing 3 and wounding 4

 

[DeadPresident]

I oppose discrimination against those with mental issues. Just because someone has mental issues, doesn’t mean they’ll act out violently.

What...? That's why policies can be specific. If a mental health screening shows a history of violence or a condition that's associated with dangerous or impulsive behavior it should absolutely be taken into account.

Saying something as vague as "mental health issues" is ridiculous, specific conditions should definitely be considered when deciding whether or not someone should be allowed to own a gun.

It's like saying someone with narcolepsy should be allowed to legally drive a car because you don't want to discriminate against people with neurological disorders.

 

[squeekness]

also

A mostly naked man shot up a Waffle House, killing 3 and wounding 4

This I blame on social media which seems to encourage oneupmanship. "Whatever you can do I can do better naked!"

 

[Hotwire]

so youre ok with reading stories almost weekly about wives/girlfriends being murdered by their exes because they decided to leave and a sefish disturbed man decided that no one can have her

also

A mostly naked man shot up a Waffle House, killing 3 and wounding 4

And he was stopped by a black man with NO gun!

 

[ComicBookNerd]

so youre ok with reading stories almost weekly about wives/girlfriends being murdered by their exes because they decided to leave and a sefish disturbed man decided that no one can have her

also

A mostly naked man shot up a Waffle House, killing 3 and wounding 4

You act as if only mental illnesses cause people to do that. The greatest motivations for domestic violence are sex and money.