🇺🇸 Discussion: Guns, The Second Amendment, NRA - Part II

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Jesus...

 

[:eek:]

Thousand Oaks makes 307 mass shootings in 311 days

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Thousand Oaks makes 307 mass shootings in 311 days

Even if one if inclined to quibble with those numbers... Uh even if you halved that by say, sifting out incidents you have issues with in terms of proper metrics... That would still be over 150 mass shootings in less than one year.

But as always... It's just not something one half of the political sphere of the nation has any intention of actually coming to grips with in any way, which isn't even to say there is a solution, there may not be, but FFS we should start to look at this clearly rather than try to use bromides to cover up the regular evidence that while the country is actually more peaceful than it's been since the early 1960's in terms of violent crime, that these intentional mass shootings are indicative of some issues we need to start looking at much more clearly.


It's ironic to me because as somebody in my 40's I've heard the GOP pitch on this my whole life now and... It's never made sense, but let's look at in the modern context and you all tell me if it's at all reflective of reality and I say this as somebody that actually lived in NYC during the crack and drive by shooting era. So... Trump Republican voters think that the ****ing country is on fire. I'm not putting words into their mouths. This is what they do think. When asked about reasons they say they voted for Trump, one was "crime". Thing is... crime, violent crime, has been trending downward for a long time now. While for sure there are many places where it's ticked up in the "heartland" (a vague idiom that's beyond a geographical exactitude but more like "Any small town more than two hours from an urban center of more than 3 million residents") these places are still incredibly safe, as are most big cities, at least when it comes to being attacked or killed by random strangers, because let's remember that most people have always been killed by someone they knew for a personal reason that was never going to be influenced by some public policy.

And you can yell all you want about "Chicago" or "Baltimore" but even those cities while facing headwinds of violence in neighborhoods within their limits are still safer today than say "the good olde days" of 35-40 years ago and the trends are still moving towards on the whole, a generally less violently chaotic society. And yet the Trump voter looks around and is told and chooses to believe, that the simple act of walking around where you live is more dangerous than ever and we need much, much, MUCH tougher handling of crime and criminals... But a violent crime, mass shootings, that are actually on the rise and taking lives randomly? That actual occurrence of random violence? That stuff? Not worth actually doing anything over. Something we just have to live with, ya'know? Thoughts and prayers and all that but it's just too soon after this tragic event in **INSERT NAME OF TOWN OR CITY IN THE USA FROM THE PAST FOUR YEARS WHERE A MASS SHOOTING OF UNARMED INNOCENTS HAS HAPPENED** for us to start to get political about these almost clockwork like outbreaks of bloodshed. We not only CAN'T do anything about this now or in the future but, golly gee whiz, don't you realize that we SHOULDN'T do anything about this less we unleash an authoritarian hell on earth that would be the absolute, only and inevitable outcome of a 21st Century nation say, having the gun laws and regulations that are almost always actually supported by the majority whenever they actually learn what they are? Now... If you will excuse these people they have to prepare for the invading hordes of brownish people from the south that they will have forgotten about until the next time the GOP needs to get enough votes to pass tax cuts for the 1%.

 

[MurkeNyou]

So, Uber for extra cash. Giving this guy a ride tonight, long ride, the guy has a gun case and stinks of stale beer. I try to not talk politics with conservatives for obvious reason, but this guy was intent on beating the drum. He starts talking about *******s wanting to take guns away from "law abiding" gun owning people, and how he's gearing up "for a gun grab". So, goaded I ask the obvious, what he carries. Gives the usual (AR-15's and Glocks), and I ask him what he has that is armor piercing. He say his 556 is (it isn't with legit legal ammo), but I point out that gun grabs are why municipalities are getting armored vehicles by the government, and those audible area denial emitters like the new fire alarms that almost rattle your teeth. Guy got reeeeaaallly silent after that. Maybe he was trying to fake out and scare me or something, or maybe I cracked the bubble a bit. These guys pop more on rural rides, people should be on notice.

 

[samsnee]

Officer shoots, kills armed security guard outside south suburban bar

Now imagine a situation where everyone has a gun and cops rushing in trying to figure out who the assailant is.

 

[squeekness]

Civilians should not be the ones in charge of active shooter situations just for that reason.

 

[Teelie]

Officer shoots, kills armed security guard outside south suburban bar

Now imagine a situation where everyone has a gun and cops rushing in trying to figure out who the assailant is.

As I said in the other thread, it was only a matter of time before a situation like this happened.

 

[samsnee]

Looks like NRA is losing revenue. Hopefully it's because its members are sick of them putting gun manufacturers ahead of peoples' lives.

Honestly, it helps them more to have a Democrat as President so they can use "he's going go take away your guns!" scare tactics to drive up revenue.


https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/nra-kills-coffee/

The National Rifle Association is doing away with free coffee and water coolers for employees at its Fairfax, Virginia, headquarters — a cost-cutting move that has NRA insiders “freaking out,” The Trace has learned.

“The whole building was freaking out,” said one former employee who remains in contact with current staffers. Three other sources familiar with the gun group’s operations confirmed the story to The Trace.

The coffee cutback is the just latest indication that the NRA is hurting for cash. Membership revenue declined by $35 million last year, and the NRA recently rolled out its second dues increase in as many years. In May, the gun group sued New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, claiming that the state’s zealous regulatory efforts against its Carry Guard insurance program had cost the NRA “tens of millions of dollars” in lost revenue, legal fees, and other damages. (A federal judge recently ruled that the suit can go forward.)

Perhaps the most vivid evidence of belt-tightening at the NRA was its drastically reduced spending on the 2018 midterm elections. The group shelled out just under $10 million on House and Senate candidates this cycle — less than half of what it spent on congressional races in 2014 and 2016.

The Carry Guard litigation and midterm spending, however reduced, have drained resources away from day-to-day operations, one former staffer said. “Money is going from the programs to fight the legal battle. They’re draining money from general operations to push over to [the NRA’s lobbying arm, the Institute for Legislative Action]. They want the money to be able to push the agenda.”

According to NRA insiders, the austerity campaign has been led by Josh Powell, the group’s executive director for general operations. The coffee cuts, sources say, are part of Powell’s effort to overhaul the organization’s budget to make up for lost revenue. Powell, sources say, is scrutinizing every expense and contract with the help of the group’s new treasurer, Craig Spray.

“Josh is going to greatly reduce education and training and slash the number of the NRA’s publications down to one magazine,” said a source close to the gun group’s leadership. The group currently maintains six publications, including four print magazines.

Powell is an unlikely budget hawk. A Trace investigation into his business history last month found a trail of defaulted debts, including 20 lawsuits for more than $400,000 from jilted vendors.

When The Trace asked the NRA about the cuts, the gun group did not dispute them. “The historical fact is nobody returns investment and results in defending Second Amendment freedoms like the NRA,” Andrew Arulanandam, an NRA spokesperson, said. “We will continue to honor our commitment to our members by carefully managing financial and professional resources, including reviewing vendor contracts — in an effort to maximize their value in support of our mission.”

 

[Sithborg]

Which also explains them embracing Russian money. The NRA as an organization is dying, due to the next generations not being a fan of them.

 

[samsnee]

Embracing Russian money just like Cheetoh whole cheering White America first

 

[Teelie]

If only guns rights activists would actually pay attention to what the NRA is saying and doing instead of blindly going along with it.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Lot of issues intersecting with this story as it develops.

The Latest: Father says man killed in mall had gun permit

 

[Teelie]

They also shot and killed the wrong man. He was not the shooter but had a gun and was black so he got shot. He might have been a "good guy with a gun" but the details are still murky on what happened as the police keep revising the story.

 

[MurkeNyou]

He might have been a "good guy with a gun"

He was.

The silence from the NRA is deafening, yet again.

Meanwhile, the shooter is that case is still on the loose, but hey, look at how police branded an active duty 2nd amendment soldier into a potential spree killer...

 

[Teelie]

The last I had seen the police state was he was somehow involved in the altercation but did not specify how. Maybe he pulled his gun after the other man pulled his gun and started firing. I don't know. Whatever the police know, they aren't saying.

 

[MurkeNyou]

The last I had seen the police state was he was somehow involved in the altercation but did not specify how. Maybe he pulled his gun after the other man pulled his gun and started firing. I don't know. Whatever the police know, they aren't saying.

Them not saying anything, is them saying everything. They murdered a 2nd amendment active-military-service civilian because of blatantly obvious panic shooting. The silence from the NRA is also telling, given if this was a realtree wearing rotund white guy trying to assist authorities during a mass shooting, don't you think they would be flipping out?

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah, it isn't deafening. It says all there is to say about the NRA. And who they support.

 

[Holiday]

Them not saying anything, is them saying everything. They murdered a 2nd amendment active-military-service civilian because of blatantly obvious panic shooting. The silence from the NRA is also telling, given if this was a realtree wearing rotund white guy trying to assist authorities during a mass shooting, don't you think they would be flipping out?

That isnt factual. Bradford wasn't active military, he received a honorable discharge due to an injury. "An Army spokesman said only that Bradford Jr. "never completed individual training" and was not considered to have served. Bradford had returned home to Alabama to work full-time.".

Parents of man killed at Alabama mall 'outraged' by police treatment

I don't think the NRA would be defending Bradford if he were white either. Richard Black (an old white Vietnam Veteran) was shot in Colorado back in July by police after defending his home from an intruder. I cant find anything where the NRA even commented on his death.

Aurora veteran Richard Gary Black Jr. remembered as hero

In that first article I posted the Bradford family lawyer is claiming there is video of what happened so hopefully that is released soon.

 

[Teelie]

Alabama police offer new explanation for shooting wrong man

Turns out the good guy with a gun is just another guy with a gun to shoot in the eyes of the cops.

Alabama police say a black man mistaken for an active shooter during a mall shooting had "heightened the sense of threat" by drawing his own firearm after shots rang out.

Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr, 21, had "brandished a gun" as police responded to Thursday's incident at the shopping centre near Birmingham, they said.

Police initially said Mr Bradford, a US Army veteran, was the gunman, before backtracking on Friday.

The actual suspect remains at large.

Protesters and Mr Bradford's family have demanded transparency from police.

Hoover Police Department said on Monday: "We can say with certainty Mr Bradford brandished a gun during the seconds following the gunshots, which instantly heightened the sense of threat to approaching police officers responding to the chaotic scene."

Mr Bradford had a permit to carry a weapon, according to his family. Under Alabama gun law, it is not illegal to carry a firearm in public.

The police department extended its sympathies to Mr Bradford's family, saying he was "shot and killed during Hoover Police efforts to secure the scene in the seconds following the original altercation and shooting".

The tragedy unfolded on the evening of the US Thanksgiving holiday when a gunman shot and wounded an 18-year-old man and a 12-year-old girl at the Riverchase Galleria Mall in the Birmingham suburb of Hoover.

It happened just before the Black Friday sales outside a footwear retailer and, according to Al.com, may have been over some trainers.

As people fled, witnesses reported many people had their own guns out, according to NPR.

When police arrived on scene, a uniformed officer saw Mr Bradford with a firearm and shot him to death, believing him to be the gunman.

Police initially praised that officer as a "hero". But on Friday evening they said their earlier report was "not totally accurate".

The updated police statement said: "New evidence suggests that while Bradford may have been involved in some aspect of the altercation, he likely did not fire the rounds that injured the 18-year-old victim."

According to Al.com, Mr Bradford was friends with the 18-year-old who was shot and seriously hurt.

Mr Bradford's family cited witnesses as saying that he had been trying to help by waving people to safety.

The unnamed officer who killed Mr Bradford during the shooting has reportedly been placed on administrative leave.

During a news conference on Sunday, the Bradford family said that Hoover police did not contact them about his death, and they only learned of the shooting through social media.

The family's lawyer, Ben Crump, said on CNN that an officer "made a decision within milliseconds to shoot [Mr Bradford] in his face".

"If you're black and you're a good guy with a gun, the police does not see you as a good guy. They just see you as a criminal and they shoot and kill you."

Mr Crump represented the family of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager shot dead by a neighbourhood watchman in Florida in 2012.

On Saturday, around 200 protesters marched through the Alabama shopping centre calling for the release of the officer's body camera footage.

Monday's police statement noted that bodycam and other available footage has been turned over to the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department as the investigation continues.

Whether or not those recordings are released is now up to the Alabama Law Enforcement Agency, which is leading the inquiry.

Authorities said they have some information on the initial shooter and are working towards an arrest.

The shooting has reignited a nationwide debate about racial profiling of black Americans.

Earlier this month, police in a suburb of Chicago killed an armed security guard, Jemel Roberson, while he was detaining a suspected gunman.

BBC News

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Alabama police offer new explanation for shooting wrong man

Turns out the good guy with a gun is just another guy with a gun to shoot in the eyes of the cops.


BBC News

This is one of the issues this story intersects with for sure.

 

[Holiday]

"Hero" homeowner fatally shoots escaped inmate who kicked in her door, sheriff says - CBS News

 

[Donner]

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/gun-play-at-edmonds-home-led-to-teens-death-police-say/

Looks like the NRA doesn't want guns to be safely locked up because...reasons?

 

[Teelie]

Because reasonable gun-anything is wrong and infringing in the eyes of the NRA.

 

[samsnee]

Today is the 6th year anniversary of Sandy Hook. I think about those kids at least once a month every time I walk my own to school. I can't imagine as a parent having to go through that.

 

[moviedoors]

Today is the 6th year anniversary of Sandy Hook. I think about those kids at least once a month every time I walk my own to school. I can't imagine as a parent having to go through that.

Likewise. It's quite literally the worst thing I can imagine. I legitimately do not know how any of those parents have remained functional.