🇺🇸 Discussion: Guns, The Second Amendment, NRA - Part II

[samsnee]

The fact they have to deal with harassment from trolls like Alex Jones who think it was a false flag that they can't even visit the graves of their children is almost as horrible.

 

[Sithborg]

Only 6 years. Jesus.

 

[moviedoors]

Were they alive today, those children would still be years off from even being old enough to get a driver’s license.

 

[samsnee]

And of course someone called in a bomb threat to Sandy Hook this morning.

 

[Lighthouse]

Sandy Hook, what happened to the parents, and America's apathy towards it are a shameful mark on our country.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

And of course someone called in a bomb threat to Sandy Hook this morning.

Deplorable.

 

[Holiday]

Rocket launcher returned as part of Baltimore gun buyback

 

[Mike5575]

Rocket launcher returned as part of Baltimore gun buyback

How would someone get their hands on a rocket launcher? Asking for a friend.

 

[Holiday]

How would someone get their hands on a rocket launcher? Asking for a friend.

Probably Facebook Marketplace. Lol

 

[Marvolo]

Pennsylvania considers a tax on violent videogames to help prevent school shootings

 

[Teelie]

What about a tax on guns that cause violent deaths instead? Besides this is almost certainly getting smacked down hard by 1st Amendment adovcates.

 

[MaceB]

Couldn't hurt I guess. It's not gonna help in the immediate future though either. I think part of our problem does come from a culture that idolizes violence. And in order to change culture, I think movies and video games do play a role. But it takes time. Those 4 year olds who aren't going to be indoctrinated on violence need to grow up in order to make whatever change we're hoping for.

And the change they'd probably end up making? Well... taking away our guns. So, let's just do that now... and make sure guns are regulated already.

 

[Teelie]

I have played violent video games since I was a kid. Over 3 decades of violent video games and I have never so much as fired a gun let alone gone on a shooting spree. There is a lot more evidence against video games cause violence in children than these lawmakers care to admit. But they also fail to admit climate change is a thing and doubt science on evolution so logic and fact based analysis aren't going to sway them.

 

[MaceB]

I think it all adds to the milieu of violence that we are exposed to. I don't think violent video games indoctrinate our kids into violent behavior. Don't think movies do either.

But all of that stuff is representative of our culture, which does seem to idolize aggressive behavior (look at our president), bullishness, and yeah.. violence. A good portion of young men are taught at an early age that if someone hits you.. you hit back. Violence is an answer to problems. When a 10 year old kid is exposed to violent shows, violent games, and a violent home... then it makes sense that they would come desensitized to it. And from there... you're just looking for the 1 in a thousand kid who subconsciously picks this stuff up , and cooks it in an oven till he's ready to explode at 25.

I don't think mandating less violence in video games or movies is the key. Like I said... I think that stuff is just a representation. So treating it would just be treating the symptoms and not the problem. But, I'm not gonna lie. I'm sure violence in media can't help but breed violence in our youth to some degree.

 

[random_havoc]

Couldn't hurt I guess. It's not gonna help in the immediate future though either. I think part of our problem does come from a culture that idolizes violence. And in order to change culture, I think movies and video games do play a role. But it takes time. Those 4 year olds who aren't going to be indoctrinated on violence need to grow up in order to make whatever change we're hoping for.

And the change they'd probably end up making? Well... taking away our guns. So, let's just do that now... and make sure guns are regulated already.

I'm Canadian. We have exactly the same movies, tv shows, and video games, but even taking populations into account we have a tiny fraction of the amount of gun violence.
The movies, games and tv shows have basically nothing to do with it. It's because you guys still haven't passed any of the common sense gun laws that every other first world country on the planet has.

 

[MaceB]

I'm Canadian. We have exactly the same movies, tv shows, and video games, but even taking populations into account we have a tiny fraction of the amount of gun violence.
The movies, games and tv shows have basically nothing to do with it. It's because you guys still haven't passed any of the common sense gun laws that every other first world country on the planet has.

I think guns are the largest driver of the overall culture of violence that we've got going, so I'm all for it. We need to regulate the guns, and the rest of the cultural stuff will fall into place I think.

I just don't want to give these pop cultural items a pass. We do seem overly obsessed with violence to me. I don't want to legislatively force them to stop.. it's a reflection of who we are, but I think we'd do better as a community if less of the material we were consuming was about death, and war, and fighting, and guns... personally.

 

[random_havoc]

I think guns are the largest driver of the overall culture of violence that we've got going, so I'm all for it. We need to regulate the guns, and the rest of the cultural stuff will fall into place I think.

I just don't want to give these pop cultural items a pass. We do seem overly obsessed with violence to me. I don't want to legislatively force them to stop.. it's a reflection of who we are, but I think we'd do better as a community if less of the material we were consuming was about death, and war, and fighting, and guns... personally.

I agree we'd probably be psychologically healthier, but that's a different thing then what you were saying. I understood your comment to be implying that the violent media has at least some connection with the gun problem and that's simply not true. There are many other countries with exactly the same media but not the American gun violence problem. And the reason I make sure to point out that that alleged connection is completely wrong isn't to defend violent media, but to try and cut off an excuse that many Americans try to use to claim that lack of gun control isn't the biggest cause of the problem. Not saying you did that, but many have, especially a lot of Republican politicians. And it's reprehensible to try to find excuses to hide behind to avoid having to deal with the real cause of so many people's deaths.

 

[Teelie]

I still think trying to pass off gun violence or violence in general as a pop culture problem is misleading. We have had violence in society since there was a society and contrary to Fox News and other hysterics, violent crime is actually down (excluding race crime, to which a easier cause is sitting in the White House) so despite video games and movies and television being more violent than before, violent crimes are less than before when none of that existed.

 

[MaceB]

I think you guys are getting caught up in the question of what the primary driver is. The primary driver of gun violence is guns.

However, all the things we see, watch, hear, taste, and smell create an overall environment that supports those violent instincts.

Is pop culture the cause of violence within our society? No... but it's not a helpful factor. It adds to the culture of violence, it doesn't create it.

There are lots of reasons why violent crime would go down, and that's a good thing. But I don't see how a 5 year old playing a shooting game is going to help anything but to reinforce the idea that guns are fun and that violence can be acceptable, even funny at times. That can't help the situation, right?

If someone came here, and proposed a ban on violent pop media as an answer to our gun violence problem, I'd say that's silly. As long as we have military style weapons available to civilians, then some civilians are going to misuse them. I don't see any way around that. But raising that person up in a culture of violence can't help either. It has to be a contributing factor.

 

[Teelie]

Most games with guns aren't meant to be played by 5 year olds. That should be down to the parents who are ultimately responsible for what they instill in their children.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If your 5 year old is playing really violent videogames, that is not an issue with videogames. It is an issue with parenting.

 

[Herofan]

I have played violent video games since I was a kid. Over 3 decades of violent video games and I have never so much as fired a gun let alone gone on a shooting spree. There is a lot more evidence against video games cause violence in children than these lawmakers care to admit.

It doesn't have to cause violence in children in general or in many instances to still be a big problem (not surprising that there's evidence both for and against it causing violence in children).

A good portion of young men are taught at an early age that if someone hits you.. you hit back. Violence is an answer to problems. When a 10 year old kid is exposed to violent shows, violent games, and a violent home... then it makes sense that they would come desensitized to it. And from there... you're just looking for the 1 in a thousand kid who subconsciously picks this stuff up , and cooks it in an oven till he's ready to explode at 25.

Or by high school. Yes, the point of a valid law or program can be to change the actions of a small numeric minority that are socially harmful even if the vast majority of people already aren't doing the harm (and the program imposes some burden on them to have the desired effect on the few who do).

A rating system for content as we have now, and getting parents to take it seriously, seems a much milder and therefore better way to regulate violent entertainment than taxes or bans but it's not surprising some would want stronger regulation if they feel what we have now is ineffective.

There are many other countries with exactly the same media but not the American gun violence problem.

Many other countries don't have the same media, they do or did censor violence from the original versions.

 

[random_havoc]

Many other countries don't have the same media, they do or did censor violence from the original versions.

There are NUMEROUS countries that have EXACTLY the same media. Literally the exact same shows/movies/games with ZERO censoring. You have to be frighteningly ignorant of other cultures/countries to not know that. Again, Canada, where I live and have my whole life, has the exact same ones and zero censorship of violence.

...People desperately looking for something to blame other than the US's insane lack of gun control

 

[samsnee]

Parkland was a year ago. Let's see if our fearless leader actually remembers or recognizes it in a tasteful way.

 

[MaceB]

There are NUMEROUS countries that have EXACTLY the same media. Literally the exact same shows/movies/games with ZERO censoring. You have to be frighteningly ignorant of other cultures/countries to not know that. Again, Canada, where I live and have my whole life, has the exact same ones and zero censorship of violence.

...People desperately looking for something to blame other than the US's insane lack of gun control

All people are saying is that it can be Guns AND media instead of Guns OR media. It also seems ignorant, in my mind, to insist that the material people watch and listen to doesn't contribute to how they interact with society, or that it can't be a contributing factor for those with mental illness. Come on. Stop being so unequivocal about this.

You're acting like I want to push all the blame onto the video game industry. No, I just know that things can have multiple causalities... and all things being equal, gun violence is probably caused by more than just one thing.

Like, I can be against Assault weapons, and the culture of violence at the same time.