Discussion: Health And Healthcare II

[StorminNorman]

I don't know where you got that paragraph from, but the actual memorandum opinion says this on page 20:

Mine came from the full fourth circuit opinion.

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/fourth-circuit-opinion-1.pdf

 

[dnno1]

Mine came from the full fourth circuit opinion.

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/fourth-circuit-opinion-1.pdf

That was the (sole) dissenting opinion. I got the majority opinion directly from the US District Court, Western District of Virginia website.

 

[StorminNorman]

Haha, I will never use ThinkProgressive.org again.

 

[hippie_hunter]

It looks like the Supreme Court is going to rule on Obamacare before the election. The Obama Administration has decided not to ask the 11th Circuit to reconsider it's ruling against Obamacare and will now most likely go to the Supreme Court this term.

 

[Marx]

...that's going to be interesting.

 

[Marx]

According to the AP, the Obama administration has decided not to go forward with a major part of the healthcare reform bill. The long-term insurance plan has been cut due to "critical design flaws that can't be fixed to make it financially self-sustaining".

 

[dnno1]

According to the AP, the Obama administration has decided not to go forward with a major part of the healthcare reform bill. The long-term insurance plan has been cut due to "critical design flaws that can't be fixed to make it financially self-sustaining".

Health Secretary, Kathleen Sebelius gave a response to the decision. Since the CLASS program was to find it's own way to fund itself (for the next 75 years -- doesn't that sound familiar?) it was found that even the most basic plans of CLASS wouldn't work, and thus, they had to make the decision not to go forward with the program for now. This doesn't mean that it won't come up again in the future.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Health Secretary, Kathleen Sebelius gave a response to the decision. Since the CLASS program was to find it's own way to fund itself (for the next 75 years -- doesn't that sound familiar?) it was found that even the most basic plans of CLASS wouldn't work, and thus, they had to make the decision not to go forward with the program for now. This doesn't mean that it won't come up again in the future.

But in the near future, it just isn't going to come up at all.

The GOP is likely to capture the Senate by taking seats in North Dakota, Nebraska, Virginia, Wisconsin, Missouri, and Montana in 2012 and the Democrats unlikely to capture Massachusetts, Arizona, and Nevada like they wish they will, along with Joe Manchin being a DINO, it's not even going to get close to passing once more in the Senate in order to fix CLASS in order to be viable.

The GOP is likely to keep their hold on the House. And they certainly aren't going to entertain any notions of reforming CLASS to be viable.

And then of course, Obama isn't exactly a favorite to win re-election in 2012. And if Mitt Romney wins the election, do you think that he's going to try and fix CLASS? Hell no.

CLASS is dead and will continue to be dead for a long, long, long, time.

 

[dnno1]

But in the near future, it just isn't going to come up at all.

The GOP is likely to capture the Senate by taking seats in North Dakota, Nebraska, Virginia, Wisconsin, Missouri, and Montana in 2012 and the Democrats unlikely to capture Massachusetts, Arizona, and Nevada like they wish they will, along with Joe Manchin being a DINO, it's not even going to get close to passing once more in the Senate in order to fix CLASS in order to be viable.

The GOP is likely to keep their hold on the House. And they certainly aren't going to entertain any notions of reforming CLASS to be viable.

And then of course, Obama isn't exactly a favorite to win re-election in 2012. And if Mitt Romney wins the election, do you think that he's going to try and fix CLASS? Hell no.

CLASS is dead and will continue to be dead for a long, long, long, time.

We will have to see about that.

 

[dnno1]

In other news:

Blue Cross begins mailing refunds

In North Carolina and California. This is a result of the paragraph in the Affordable Care Act that says that the insurance companies have to refund members if their profits are more than 20%. Blue Cross members in California will save an average of 4.5% this year on annual premiums.

 

[hippie_hunter]

We will have to see about that.

If CLASS isn't repealed, I don't see the government attempting to revive it until the next decade at the earliest. It just isn't going to happen this decade even if Obama wins re-election.

 

[Paradoxium]

HHS report recommends closing Obamacare program

Last month, Congressional Republicans issued a report detailing how the Obama administration ignored warnings that the program was unsustainable in the rush to pass the national health care law. Shortly after this, the program's actuary announced he was leaving and said the office dealing with the program was to be shut down. HHS later issued a statement insisting the office hadn't been closed, while acknowledging that it had been downsized and that whether the program gets implemented remains an "open question."

One reason why the Obama administration has been reluctant to officially shut down the program is that it was one of the main accounting gimmicks they used during the health care debate. Because the CLASS Act was supposed to collect five years of premiums before paying out any benefits, the Democrats have been claim $80 billion in short-term surplus from the program as deficit reduction, ignoring the obvious fact that the money would eventually have to pay for benefits. It's been called a "budget zombie."

Here's the detailed HHS report prepared concluding that the CLASS program couldn't work. One of the fears raised is that if it were implemented and failed, it would be problematic to shut down.

"(W)e conclude that there is substantial uncertainty about what would follow if solvency or legal problems prevented the CLASS program, once operational, from continuing to implement the plan," the report reads. "We cannot with any confidence predict that the CLASS program would beable to honor its commitments to individuals who had already enrolled or entered beneficiarystatus in the program, or avoid leaving them worse off, or that such individuals would be able torecoup their paid premiums."

 

[Handsome Rob]

HHS report recommends closing Obamacare program

Now is it just me, or does it appear that the federal government is putting $$ before people here?

I thought only health insurance and other evil assorted corporations did such vile things.

 

[Lighthouse]

My premiums are going up next year for less coverage. Does anyone know a better way to get high risk health insurance? My employment just isn't going to cut it next year.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Ohio voters are on the verge of approving a constitutional amendment against Obamacare. It's currently 60% yes to 40% no with over 2% of the precincts reporting.

 

[DACrowe]

...which is ultimately meaningless if SCOTUS upholds HCR (or "Obamacare")'s legality next year.

Also in HCR news today, the DC Federal Appeals Court upheld HCR as constitutional. The judge was appointed by Reagan, btw. Those liberal activists and all that.

 

[hippie_hunter]

...which is ultimately meaningless if SCOTUS upholds HCR (or "Obamacare")'s legality next year.

Also in HCR news today, the DC Federal Appeals Court upheld HCR as constitutional. The judge was appointed by Reagan, btw. Those liberal activists and all that.

I saw that, and for once, a court ruling that actually supported Obama's position of the constitutionality of the individual mandate, as opposed to pushing it to the side by saying that there was just no right to sue to begin with.

 

[dnno1]

My premiums are going up next year for less coverage. Does anyone know a better way to get high risk health insurance? My employment just isn't going to cut it next year.

You can try [BLACKOUT]the public option[/BLACKOUT]. I don't know how much you are paying right now, but if you are considered high risk, you are going to pay more wherever you go for now. Depending on what state you live in, your premium may vary.

 

[Marx]

Ohio officially voted against the "Obamacare" mandate. Symbolic or not, I'm glad the vote went the way it did.

 

[dnno1]

...which is ultimately meaningless if SCOTUS upholds HCR (or "Obamacare")'s legality next year.

Also in HCR news today, the DC Federal Appeals Court upheld HCR as constitutional. The judge was appointed by Reagan, btw. Those liberal activists and all that.

Yes, this is totally symbolic seeing that the Constitution, in Article IV, Section I, states that the Congress via legislation, may prescribe the effect of any State's law. You also have the Supremacy Clause.

 

[DACrowe]

Ohio officially voted against the "Obamacare" mandate. Symbolic or not, I'm glad the vote went the way it did.

You're against the individual mandate, Marx? I'm surprised, given that was a centerpiece of Hillary Clinton's platform in 2007-2008 is all.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Yes, this is totally symbolic seeing that the Constitution, in Article IV, Section I, states that the Congress via legislation, may prescribe the effect of any State's law. You also have the Supremacy Clause.

But it is a major symbolic blow to the Obama Administration. This is the fourth time that a state has overwhelmingly rejected Obamacare. Missouri already rejected it with 71% in favor, Arizona rejected it with 55% in favor, Oklahoma rejected it with 65% in favor, and Ohio has done the same with 66% in favor.

What makes Ohio even worse for the Obama Administration is that unlike the Missouri's Proposition C, or Oklahoma's State Question 756, or Arizona's Proposition 106, turnout for Ohio's Issue 3 was high (thanks to Issue 2) and was rejected in every single county of Ohio voting against Obamacare.

 

[dnno1]

But it is a major symbolic blow to the Obama Administration. This is the fourth time that a state has overwhelmingly rejected Obamacare. Missouri already rejected it with 71% in favor, Arizona rejected it with 55% in favor, Oklahoma rejected it with 65% in favor, and Ohio has done the same with 66% in favor.

What makes Ohio even worse for the Obama Administration is that unlike the Missouri's Proposition C, or Oklahoma's State Question 756, or Arizona's Proposition 106, turnout for Ohio's Issue 3 was high (thanks to Issue 2) and was rejected in every single county of Ohio voting against Obamacare.

Yes, but there are 50 states. Last I checked 46 out of 50 was a pretty good batting average. Look never did I think that this would please everyone, nor would I have expected you to think the same, but saying that 4 states out of 50 not wanting the ACA being a major blow is like equating that to the southern states succeeding from the Union, and that by far is no comparison.

 

[BlackLantern]

not a major blow, but it's definitely making others think twice about it

it's probably going to be on the ballot for Connecticut in the next year or two

 

[Marx]

You're against the individual mandate, Marx? I'm surprised, given that was a centerpiece of Hillary Clinton's platform in 2007-2008 is all.

I'm very familiar with Hillary Clinton's presidential platform. I have always opposed the "individual" mandate. I did, however, support her view of an "employer" mandate that would've required businesses to provide healthcare for employees.