Discussion: Planned Parenthood

[SV Fan]

With the millions planned parenthood gets they could be instead using that money to help poor neighborhoods where teen pregnancy is far more common by providing better education and opportunities which have shown in the past to counter issues like teen pregnancy...........

That actually is a large part of what they do provide

 

[Owl]

George Carlin said it best when it came to the pro-life movement.
"If you're preborn, you're fine. If you're pre-school, you're ****ed."

There is just so much focus on what can be a considered a basic lifeform that by the time it even becomes a human being 9 months later that Pro-life Republicans don't even give a **** about it anymore and try to pass measures that hinder the development of struggling families. Planned Parenthood at least makes it possible to have sex safely and, even though it is a very small amount, delay or reject the option of having children. This issue has been blown out of proportion and I'd prefer that women we're allowed to get abortions in a clean clinic than back when they were forced to use coat hangers or a mixture of mercury and lead.

 

[chaseter]

Abortion is a selfish, cowardly act. Using a coat hanger or a certified physician doesn't lessen the implication that you are terminating your unborn child and ending a life.

I'm all for education and prevention but taxpayers should not be responsible for others' irresponsibility. I can't believe some people mourn over the loss of a lion but will demand free access to abortions. I agree above that the other side fights for unborn life but will take away funding for meals to feed starving children to boost our defense budget. It's truly sad.

Why can't there be a middle ground? Taking a mistake pill the day after is different than sucking out a 25 week old with fingernails and nerve endings. I can't believe people support and encourage that.

 

[chaseter]

You really have no idea what kind of emotional and physical pain a woman goes through for an abortion, do you? If you did, you would never refer to it as easy.

I'll interject and ask what the baby feels?

If it's traumatic, why not just give it up for adoption? Which option is more traumatic to the mother?

 

[Mechanix]

Abortion is a selfish, cowardly act. Using a coat hanger or a certified physician doesn't lessen the implication that you are terminating your unborn child and ending a life.

I'm all for education and prevention but taxpayers should not be responsible for others' irresponsibility. I can't believe some people mourn over the loss of a lion but will demand free access to abortions. I agree above that the other side fights for unborn life but will take away funding for meals to feed starving children to boost our defense budget. It's truly sad.

Why can't there be a middle ground? Taking a mistake pill the day after is different than sucking out a 25 week old with fingernails and nerve endings. I can't believe people support and encourage that.

What about people who don't want kids and protect themselves against it? You think it's right to force a woman (or couple) to have a child that they never wanted because you personally find it wrong to abort it?

Also, anyone who suggests that a woman just carry the baby to term and put it up for adoption is narrow minded given what a woman's body goes through during pregnancy. I would never do it. There are more than enough children available for adoption. Granted, I wouldn't wait months to abort it. It would be gone as soon as I knew.

Funny enough, the legalization of abortion helped to curb the crime rates in the States back in the 70s.

 

[Mechanix]

I'll interject and ask what the baby feels?

If it's traumatic, why not just give it up for adoption? Which option is more traumatic to the mother?

It doesn't feel anything. It's a bunch of cells with no consciousness.

Carrying a baby to term is also traumatic. It wreaks havoc on a woman's hormones and can put her health at risk. I know a woman who has had two miscarriages and ended up in the hospital both times. Her body cannot handle a pregnancy. Given the option, I would abort over putting it up for adoption. I don't want children and I protect myself and I don't think it's right to force a woman to go through 9 months of pregnancy and then labour in order to have a child that she doesn't want.

 

[chaseter]

You create a life because you can't use protection and/or take the day after pill and don't want to go through the aftermath of your terrible choices so you decide to end the life you created for convenience. That is the definition of ignorance and selfishness combined. Someone who aborts a 26 week old baby (currently legal) out of convenience should have to see the face it terminated or watch a procedure before hand so it's burned into their brain for the rest of their life. A baby can feel pain at that stage in development and can survive outside the womb. People who support and actively participate in those abortions are awful human beings IMO. It's sad.

 

[KevanG]

Chaseter, do you actually know any women who have gone through pregnancy? Do you know what it does to their minds and bodies during it? You just seem to be calling women selfish *******s because they can't physically deal with carrying a baby to term or know they can't support it no matter what.

By your way of thinking it looks like every woman should carry every baby to term no matter how much it may hurt them or if they have no way to take care of them when they get born. I know some people who live on child support from the government and they have a hell of a time trying to live on two full time jobs and government assistance with kids because she had kids too early. She thought she was ready but surprise! She wasn't and it's messed up her life rather severely.

As for adoption, I know several people who went through adoption and they admit living in various homes over the years really ****ed with their heads to the point that most regret being born and one has attempted suicide over the depression they've gone through.

So the whole 'birth them and dump them on the adoption system' idea isn't as good as you seem to think it is.

 

[SuperT]

Seriously. With how messed up, convoluted and sometimes emotionally draining (on the child and parties involved) the adoption process is here in the states why would anyone want to force a child to go through that crap if they don't have to.

 

[Mechanix]

You create a life because you can't use protection and/or take the day after pill and don't want to go through the aftermath of your terrible choices so you decide to end the life you created for convenience. That is the definition of ignorance and selfishness combined. Someone who aborts a 26 week old baby (currently legal) out of convenience should have to see the face it terminated or watch a procedure before hand so it's burned into their brain for the rest of their life. A baby can feel pain at that stage in development and can survive outside the womb. People who support and actively participate in those abortions are awful human beings IMO. It's sad.

For convenience? Have you ever met a woman who had an abortion? You seem to think you know the reasons behind abortions. And what about those people who don't feel like birth control should be readily available for women? Birth control can be very expensive. So poor women can't have sex, then.

You pass a lot of judgement for someone that will never have to deal with being pregnant.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I am not for abortion and I am pro life. Abortion is only acceptable if a woman has been violently raped. But even then it's iffy. Otherwise, if you make the decision to sleep around or not use protection of you are sexually active then you need to grow up and take care of your responsibilities, no excuses. Or if you can't do that put the child up for adoption. As for planned parent hood, I am not sure if it was confirmed they were selling tissue/ body parts of aborted babies, but if it was true they definitely need to be shut down and charged for their crimes.

 

[DDS]

I don't think any man should make abortion into a black-and-white evil unless they want to look into the eyes of a 16 year old girl going through an unwanted pregnancy that could ruin her life or the eyes of a rape victim, and share their pro-life thoughts with them.

I say this as someone who has been pro-life for the vast majority of my (albeit short) life until pretty recently.

 

[Corinthian™]

I am not for abortion and I am pro life. Abortion is only acceptable if a woman has been violently raped. But even then it's iffy. Otherwise, if you make the decision to sleep around or not use protection of you are sexually active then you need to grow up and take care of your responsibilities, no excuses. Or if you can't do that put the child up for adoption. As for planned parent hood, I am not sure if it was confirmed they were selling tissue/ body parts of aborted babies, but if it was true they definitely need to be shut down and charged for their crimes.

I wish people would look at issues from the other perspective.

No. They don't sell tissue. You can't sell tissue. It's against the law. You can't even sell blood. You donate it.


I also like how the whole "Pro-life" point can be seen as two things that people can't separate:

1) Killing unborn babies is wrong
2) Sleeping around is wrong


I mean, you can't have just the unborn baby killing. You have to add the fact that they are having promiscuous sex and not suffering the consequences. Because all sex shall have consequences. Why? Because Jesus/God said so.


Well, good for you all. Let them go to hell in peace.

 

[KevanG]

Boxer, have you read anything about the fetal tissue selling from an unbiased source because it is legal. The thing is that it's illegal to mention it before they do the abortion then they ask permission to sell it by the parent(s), if it's not given then the tissue is destroyed.

It is illegal to profit from the sale of fetal tissue, though not illegal for expenses involved in its collection to be reimbursed.

The videos that came out recently that were said to be from the PP people were made by anti-abortion jackasses who wanted to ruin the name of PP but they were found out since they edited them like crazy to make them look like sadistic monsters.

You know what's funny though, the same people who now say it's a bad terrible thing to do were the ones who voted for it for years to go through. It was questioned back in the 80's and the bipartisan vote was very much in favor of it continuing.

 

[DDS]

What's so asinine about the attempts to defund Planned Parenthood is that doing so would do nothing to stop the legality of abortion, and 100% for profit abortion places would still be around. All that would do is decrease access to health care services for poor people. We wouldn't be "saving babies," we'd just be ****ing the poor over again.

And hospitals donate fetal tissue as well. Let's just build moats around them because making health care embarrassingly harder to get access to compared to other first world nations is all we're really fighting for. **** it.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I don't think any man should make abortion into a black-and-white evil unless they want to look into the eyes of a 16 year old girl going through an unwanted pregnancy that could ruin her life or the eyes of a rape victim, and share their pro-life thoughts with them.

I say this as someone who has been pro-life for the vast majority of my (albeit short) life until pretty recently.

Like I said I am pro life, but a woman being raped is the only time I would think it would be okay with an abortion, just because of psychological issues that raising the child may have on the mother. But 16 year old that gets pregnant from just sleeping around.. No abortion is not okay there. They need to grow up and take care of their responsibilities, if they don't want that responsibility then use protection, better yet don't have sex at all until your mature enough to handle the consequences.

 

[DDS]

So you're saying a 16 year old should throw her life away and go through with giving birth, which could cause her severe harm and even death, rather than just shed a zygote. Alright.

Also, sometimes you can use protection and birth control and still have mishaps.

 

[DDS]

The root of the most extreme pro-life causes is sex negativity.

 

[Mechanix]

Like I said I am pro life, but a woman being raped is the only time I would think it would be okay with an abortion, just because of psychological issues that raising the child may have on the mother. But 16 year old that gets pregnant from just sleeping around.. No abortion is not okay there. They need to grow up and take care of their responsibilities, if they don't want that responsibility then use protection, better yet don't have sex at all until your mature enough to handle the consequences.

This is so ridiculous. I have sex with my fiance. We don't want kids. We use protection. If I got pregnant, I would abort in a second. No question. And there is no way anyone will ever force me to carry a child I don't want or raise it. And to anyone who says I shouldn't have sex then, screw you.

 

[Mechanix]

Sex is not just for procreation and those that think it is are so sexually repressed it's truly sad. No one and I mean no one should be forced to raise a child they never wanted. Like I said before, the legalization of abortion helped curb crime rates in the 70s.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Like I said I am pro life, but a woman being raped is the only time I would think it would be okay with an abortion, just because of psychological issues that raising the child may have on the mother. But 16 year old that gets pregnant from just sleeping around.. No abortion is not okay there. They need to grow up and take care of their responsibilities, if they don't want that responsibility then use protection, better yet don't have sex at all until your mature enough to handle the consequences.

In an ideal world where people are without flaw, that would be all dandy and fine. Except in reality mistakes happen, lapses in judgement happen, things don't go as planned, and no amount of birth control is 100% effective. And there is no reason why anyone, especially a 16 year old girl, should have to pay for that mistake with the rest of her life. It's so easy as a man who is not susceptible to such an unfortunate situation to pass judgement on the women who are. Especially when it's so easy for a man to walk away from such an unfortunate situation leaving the woman alone to deal with it. And it's all the more unfortunate when the woman is forced to have an unwanted baby, in a country where she is given no paternity leave from a job that pays her less than her male counter part, to live under a government that is trying to slash every "entitlement" she has available when attempting to raise her family out of poverty, but then condemn her for not getting an education from a college who's tuition she could never afford because she's apparently not good enough for anything more than a minimum wage job that doesn't even provide her with a livable income...as if she would even have time to go to school because SHE'S A SINGLE MOM SADDLED WITH A KID WHICH RESULTED FROM ONE STUPID MOMENTARY MISTAKE!

Hey, that sounds like a totally fair situation to raise a kid in.

How about, instead, we show the woman some understanding and sympathy as she is forced to deal with the harrowing and traumatizing situation that is a terminated pregnancy? how about we take that opportunity to educate and lift her above her mistakes to give her a new opportunity at a better future where she won't be shamed, and condemned, and demoralized into more committing more mistakes? Can we maybe try that?

 

[Mechanix]

In an ideal world where people are without flaw, that would be all dandy and fine. Except in reality mistakes happen, lapses in judgement happen, things don't go as planned, and no amount of birth control is 100% effective. And there is no reason why anyone, especially a 16 year old girl, should have to pay for that mistake with the rest of her life. It's so easy as a man who is not susceptible to such an unfortunate situation to pass judgement on the women who are. Especially when it's so easy for a man to walk away from such an unfortunate situation leaving the woman alone to deal with it. And it's all the more unfortunate when the woman is forced to have an unwanted baby, in a country where she is given no paternity leave from a job that pays her less than her male counter part, to live under a government that is trying to slash every "entitlement" she has available when attempting to raise her family out of poverty, but then condemn her for not getting an education from a college who's tuition she could never afford because she's apparently not good enough for anything more than a minimum wage job that doesn't even provide her with a livable income...as if she would even have time to go to school because SHE'S A SINGLE MOM SADDLED WITH A KID WHICH RESULTED FROM ONE STUPID MOMENTARY MISTAKE!

Hey, that sounds like a totally fair situation to raise a kid in.

How about, instead, we show the woman some understanding and sympathy as she is forced to deal with the harrowing and traumatizing situation that is a terminated pregnancy? how about we take that opportunity to educate and lift her above her mistakes to give her a new opportunity at a better future where she won't be shamed, and condemned, and demoralized into more committing more mistakes? Can we maybe try that?

This x1000

 

[childeroland]

Why show such compassion and common sense when we can impose our will on women's bodies instead and back up our tyranny with ancient documents from cultures completely different from our own?

 

[Motown Marvel]

People say if yer not responsible enough to handle the consequences, then you shouldn't be having sex. But, frankly, until as a society we are ready to enable and empower our women and their children with an education, financial stability, and a chance at a life better than what they were born into, then maybe we shouldn't be the ones to condemn them for the choices they make. we as a people create the society which they must live in, so what about our responsibility in this?

 

[DDS]

In an ideal world where people are without flaw, that would be all dandy and fine. Except in reality mistakes happen, lapses in judgement happen, things don't go as planned, and no amount of birth control is 100% effective. And there is no reason why anyone, especially a 16 year old girl, should have to pay for that mistake with the rest of her life. It's so easy as a man who is not susceptible to such an unfortunate situation to pass judgement on the women who are. Especially when it's so easy for a man to walk away from such an unfortunate situation leaving the woman alone to deal with it. And it's all the more unfortunate when the woman is forced to have an unwanted baby, in a country where she is given no paternity leave from a job that pays her less than her male counter part, to live under a government that is trying to slash every "entitlement" she has available when attempting to raise her family out of poverty, but then condemn her for not getting an education from a college who's tuition she could never afford because she's apparently not good enough for anything more than a minimum wage job that doesn't even provide her with a livable income...as if she would even have time to go to school because SHE'S A SINGLE MOM SADDLED WITH A KID WHICH RESULTED FROM ONE STUPID MOMENTARY MISTAKE!

Hey, that sounds like a totally fair situation to raise a kid in.

How about, instead, we show the woman some understanding and sympathy as she is forced to deal with the harrowing and traumatizing situation that is a terminated pregnancy? how about we take that opportunity to educate and lift her above her mistakes to give her a new opportunity at a better future where she won't be shamed, and condemned, and demoralized into more committing more mistakes? Can we maybe try that?

People say if yer not responsible enough to handle the consequences, then you shouldn't be having sex. But, frankly, until as a society we are ready to enable and empower our women and their children with an education, financial stability, and a chance at a life better than what they were born into, then maybe we shouldn't be the ones to condemn them for the choices they make. we as a people create the society which they must live in, so what about our responsibility in this?

A+ response.

I honestly need to remind myself to have a little more sympathy for the pro-life crowd, and perhaps right-wingers in general. I used to be so much like that not long ago, just as a product of my environment growing up. I'm 19 almost 20, and was basically still on the fence on the abortion topic until I went through a few years of college. I had it deeply engrained that abortion was murder (I learned about abortion before I ever learned what sex actually was), and pregnancy was a consequence of "ungodly" sex, and that gays were an abomination...you get the idea and general picture. So I'm going to try harder know to sympathize with people who have these views, because I was like that at one point, and know where all this comes from. Since I've changed my views, I often react with anger instead of calmly expressing myself. So ShadowBoxer, my arguments with you aren't personal attacks, I just feel very strongly about these issues now. Maybe it's the exact amount I should be feeling, or maybe it's too strong. I don't know.