Discussion: Racism - Part 1

[moviedoors]

Does this pronoun law extend to terms like "xe" or "ou"? Two terms my bigoted phone apparently doesn't recognize either.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

By the way, don't worry. White people will no longer be the majority quite soon in the US.

Anxiety over the end of White majority plays a role in so much of what's going on in America, today.

 

[Docker2.0]

What does abortion have to do with anything exactly? Well other then the right wanting to tell women what they can do with their bodies, and trying to keep the situation where minority families have large amount of kids but no jobs to take care of them?

Agreed!

*puts a hand on DarthSkywalker's shoulder*

Forget it, Jake. It's chaseter.

LOL!

 

[DeadPresident]

Anxiety over the end of White majority plays a role in so much of what's going on in America, today.

What I find interesting is that when the notion that a predominantly white country wants to stay predominantly white is brought up it's discussed as some kind of white supremacist conspiracy theory. It only seems to have racist connotations when we're talking about the USA and their white population.

If you had to ask the Japanese if they'd be alright becoming a minority in Japan and they replied with "no" I'm assuming most would say; "Oh, well, they're trying to protect their culture, right?". When Russia refuses to take in Syrian refugees or indeed accommodate almost anyone of even vaguely differing ethnocultural makeup, are they deemed to be trying to further some kind of white supremacy or Russian supremacy?

When Putin refused to acknowledge a Japanese genocide against a cultural group from within his country's own citizenship, is that decried as Russian "majority" or supremacy? If Arab countries that have tried to exterminate Kurds continue enthusiastically in that endeavor is it called "Arab supremacy"?

Is this because most people discussing the topic here are from the USA or is there some kind of bias when people discuss "white" culture in particular? I think people need to start realizing every dominant group in any part of the world tries to protect its own dominance in a society. That's not some kind of racist conspiracy, it's a biological truth of humans as a species.

 

[MadVillainy]

 

[Docker2.0]

I don't understand the venom being spewed at Kapernick. There is clearly a problem with police killing minorities and getting off. What he is doing is bringing attention to it with a lot of vets supporting him. So all this disrespecting the military is blown out of proportion. I will say the pig socks maybe going a little to far but I support him in anthem boycott. It's bringing attention to something that needs to be addressed and not buried, which it has been. It's crazy how the USA is criticizing the Philippines President about his war on drugs but is not addressing the police/minority problem here. His response is on point as well.

 

[MadVillainy]

I don't understand the venom being spewed at Kapernick. There is clearly a problem with police killing minorities and getting off. What he is doing is bringing attention to it with a lot of vets supporting him. So all this disrespecting the military is blown out of proportion. I will say the pig socks maybe going a little to far but I support him in anthem boycott. It's bringing attention to something that needs to be addressed and not buried, which it has been. It's crazy how the USA is criticizing the Philippines President about his war on drugs but is not addressing the police/minority problem here. His response is on point as well.

95% of the people mad at Kapernick are the type who stay silent during any other racial based event. It's like the All Lives Matter thing

 

[2kt09]

It's like the All Lives Matter thing

t:
Speaking of

Oh and this was far more to the talking point of BLM

Spoiler

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

What I find interesting is that when the notion that a predominantly white country wants to stay predominantly white is brought up it's discussed as some kind of white supremacist conspiracy theory. It only seems to have racist connotations when we're talking about the USA and their white population.

A predominantly white country that annexed non-white people's land, brought non-white slaves, and pursued regional policies that result in mass immigration, has only itself to blame for no longer being predominately white. White America has benefited from those actions, accepting the resulting demographic shift with grace is the least they could do. The growing popularity of framing the shift as white genocide or a war on whites is racist.

When Putin refused to acknowledge a Japanese genocide against a cultural group from within his country's own citizenship, is that decried as Russian "majority" or supremacy? If Arab countries that have tried to exterminate Kurds continue enthusiastically in that endeavor is it called "Arab supremacy"?

I've seen every country and people you've mentioned criticized for xenophobia and racism on more international sites like the old FT.com forums. SHH is pretty US centric and has a lot of American members.

I think people need to start realizing every dominant group in any part of the world tries to protect its own dominance in a society. That's not some kind of racist conspiracy, it's a biological truth of humans as a species.

There's nothing biological about racial supremacy. There's greater variance within the races than there are between them, and people have intermixed before and after the concept was created.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

What I find interesting is that when the notion that a predominantly white country wants to stay predominantly white is brought up it's discussed as some kind of white supremacist conspiracy theory. It only seems to have racist connotations when we're talking about the USA and their white population.

If you had to ask the Japanese if they'd be alright becoming a minority in Japan and they replied with "no" I'm assuming most would say; "Oh, well, they're trying to protect their culture, right?". When Russia refuses to take in Syrian refugees or indeed accommodate almost anyone of even vaguely differing ethnocultural makeup, are they deemed to be trying to further some kind of white supremacy or Russian supremacy?

When Putin refused to acknowledge a Japanese genocide against a cultural group from within his country's own citizenship, is that decried as Russian "majority" or supremacy? If Arab countries that have tried to exterminate Kurds continue enthusiastically in that endeavor is it called "Arab supremacy"?

Is this because most people discussing the topic here are from the USA or is there some kind of bias when people discuss "white" culture in particular? I think people need to start realizing every dominant group in any part of the world tries to protect its own dominance in a society. That's not some kind of racist conspiracy, it's a biological truth of humans as a species.

America isn't like most European and Asian countries.

It's a nation of immigrants.

And the Japanese reject all immigrants regardless of race. That"s not the same as rejecting only certain races.

 

[Docker2.0]

t:
Speaking of

Oh and this was far more to the talking point of BLM

Spoiler

Funny how blacks are being killed by cops but some people are saying obey the law, even when the dude is clearly doing so but yet all lives matter. For anyone who's blind and says that they don't understand why Colin and BLM(a group who I don't even support but do understand)exist then look at what's going on. Cops kill minorities and get paid time off(AKA vacation)but yet racism doesn't exist. It's crazy how "all lives matter" when it's convenient.

 

[2kt09]

Funny how blacks are being killed by cops but some people are saying obey the law, even when the dude is clearly doing so but yet all lives matter. For anyone who's blind and says that they don't understand why Colin and BLM (a group who I don't even support but do understand) exist then look at what's going on. Cops kill minorities and get paid time off(AKA vacation)but yet racism doesn't exist. It's crazy how "all lives matter" when it's convenient.

Cheers to not supporting BLM.

You're 10 pages behind on what others including myself went over in this thread.

 

[Docker2.0]

Cheers to not supporting BLM.

You're 10 pages behind on what others including myself went over in this thread.

Yes.

 

[DeadPresident]

A predominantly white country that annexed non-white people's land, brought non-white slaves, and pursued regional policies that result in mass immigration, has only itself to blame for no longer being predominately white. White America has benefited from those actions, accepting the resulting demographic shift with grace is the least they could do. The growing popularity of framing the shift as white genocide or a war on whites is racist.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people's reaction to the concept. If you'd like to try and explain why in broader, more metaphoric historical strokes what's happening in the USA makes complete sense to someone with an average IQ, go ahead. I'm talking about why Joe Soap sees it as a problem, every dominant group in every society would see it as problematic.

Whites in America seeing the end of white dominance as an issue isn't racist the same way Arabs theoretically seeing the end of Arab dominance in any number of ME countries wouldn't be racist. This isn't about race, it's about hegemony.

I've seen every country and people you've mentioned criticized for xenophobia and racism on more international sites like the old FT.com forums. SHH is pretty US centric and has a lot of American members.

That's fair, and I assumed that was a relevant component.

There's nothing biological about racial supremacy. There's greater variance within the races than there are between them, and people have intermixed before and after the concept was created.

Nothing biological, no, but sociologically and anthropologically it makes complete sense. People love to make this some kind of evil racial conspiracy, it's far simpler than that. Humans, like every other animal, are comfortable around their own kind, it's why homogeneous societies are happier in general and exhibit less conflict.

All we have is a dominant "type" in a specific environment that wants to remain the dominant type.

America isn't like most European and Asian countries.

It's a nation of immigrants.

And the Japanese reject all immigrants regardless of race. That"s not the same as rejecting only certain races.

You're arguing semantics, the fact of the matter is a vehement exclusion of any differing ethnicity only seems to be some cardinal sin when whites do it, but like Angryfantasyfan said, it's likely because this site is predominantly frequented by Americans.

My point is simply that, yes, racism and various forms of prejudice exist, but for whatever reasons when it originates from certain groups it is given far more significance than some other groups. Racism isn't the problem in most people's eyes, it's racism or a specific prejudice when perpetrated by a certain group/representative of that group.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You're arguing semantics, the fact of the matter is a vehement exclusion of any differing ethnicity only seems to be some cardinal sin when whites do it, but like Angryfantasyfan said, it's likely because this site is predominantly frequented by Americans.

My point is simply that, yes, racism and various forms of prejudice exist, but for whatever reasons when it originates from certain groups it is given far more significance than some other groups. Racism isn't the problem in most people's eyes, it's racism or a specific prejudice when perpetrated by a certain group/representative of that group.

I'm pretty sure if a black person started to talk about how inferior whites were and called them terrible names, they wouldn't be given a free pass by society.

Yet in most cases, I see whites expressing these feelings, not blacks.

Unless you're one of those people who think blacks are racist when they claim someone else is being racist.

 

[DeadPresident]

I'm pretty sure if a black person started to talk about how inferior whites were and called them terrible names, they wouldn't be given a free pass by society.

Yet in most cases, I see whites expressing these feelings, not blacks.

I'm not from the States but where I'm at that happens rather frequently and you even have white people joining in to lump some guilt-ridden defamation on all Anglo-Saxons, nothing gets made of it. But, I'm in a black-majority country so it is to be expected. Again, this all goes back to hegemony, there's very little difference among race groups on aggregate, everyone behaves the same way on average in the same circumstances.

Unless you're one of those people who think blacks are racist when they claim someone else is being racist.

No, if a black person claims someone is being racist I evaluate the situation based on its own merit, and I assume in the States black Americans do find themselves on the receiving end of a lot of racism. But, by the same token I suspect a lot of racism is aimed at all groups, by all groups. However, what I see a lot of (from every demographic) is them calling prejudice whenever their (usually moronic) opinion gets criticized.

I've had many older Asian/Arab/Indian people say something racist to me about black people thinking I'm "One of those whites" - because all whites secretly have holes in their sheets and kerosene in their basements, right? Every group exhibits prejudice, and they're more likely to exhibit it when they're the dominant group in a country - that's basic human psychology.

Global society has become a maelstrom of identity politics-spouting individuals with the emotional and cognitive maturity of adolescents, it's no wonder people can't separate legitimate prejudice from someone just calling them out for being a fool.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm not from the States but where I'm at that happens rather frequently and you even have white people joining in to lump some guilt-ridden defamation on all Anglo-Saxons, nothing gets made of it. But, I'm in a black-majority country so it is to be expected. Again, this all goes back to hegemony, there's very little difference among race groups on aggregate, everyone behaves the same way on average in the same circumstances.




No, if a black person claims someone is being racist I evaluate the situation based on its own merit, and I assume in the States black Americans do find themselves on the receiving end of a lot of racism. But, by the same token I suspect a lot of racism is aimed at all groups, by all groups. However, what I see a lot of (from every demographic) is them calling prejudice whenever their (usually moronic) opinion gets criticized.

I've had many older Asian/Arab/Indian people say something racist to me about black people thinking I'm "One of those whites" - because all whites secretly have holes in their sheets and kerosene in their basements, right? Every group exhibits prejudice, and they're more likely to exhibit it when they're the dominant group in a country - that's basic human psychology.

Global society has become a maelstrom of identity politics-spouting individuals with the emotional and cognitive maturity of adolescents, it's no wonder people can't separate legitimate prejudice from someone just calling them out for being a fool.

If you look at the worst result of so called identity politics you get a bunch of entitled people who might demand too many accommodations from society.

Compare that to the worst result of xenophobia and racism and you get a dangerous political climate with the threat of systematic discrimination or human right abuses at every corner.

As bad as entitlement is, it is by far the lesser of the two evils by a country mile.

 

[DeadPresident]

If you look at the worst result of so called identity politics you get a bunch of entitled people who might demand too many accommodations from society.

Compare that to the worst result of xenophobia and racism and you get a dangerous political climate with the threat of systematic discrimination or human right abuses at every corner.

As bad as entitlement is, it is by far the lesser of the two evils by a country mile.

Yes, for now, until certain identities become socially sanctioned to persecute. People like to call the Nazis right wing, they were actually very left wing. Who says regressive leftism is going to remain about nothing more than entitlement and concessions from society? The vocal minority of these liberal offshoots have abandoned reason completely, no human rights abuses occurred at the infancy of its perpetrator's existence.

And no, the worst result of identity politics isn't just about concession from society, identity politics leads to legislated prejudice - identity politics is what caused slavery. It was identity politics that caused the genocide in Rwanda, one group was arbitrarily valued over another to the point where it became socially sanctioned to massacre the other group. Now, that won't happen in the USA since it isn't a backwater state, but the possibility for conflict remains significant. I don't personally think it'll ever get to that point in the USA, but then again many people thought nobody would ever try and fly an aircraft into a civilian skyscraper. It doesn't take much energy to speak out against the enthusiastic development of unreasonable thinking, it's any decent citizen's duty.

It starts out as murmurings at grassroots level about who matters and who doesn't, eventually it becomes mass graves in Stalin's Russia or pyres in Nazi Germany, or something as "insignificant" as retributive killings against innocent cops. Bottom line, America is primed for some kind of flashpoint and identitarians are doing nothing more than widening the rift because fools are allowing them to dominate the conversation.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Yes, for now, until certain identities become socially sanctioned to persecute. People like to call the Nazis right wing, they were actually very left wing. Who says regressive leftism is going to remain about nothing more than entitlement and concessions from society? The vocal minority of these liberal offshoots have abandoned reason completely, no human rights abuses occurred at the infancy of its perpetrator's existence.

And no, the worst result of identity politics isn't just about concession from society, identity politics leads to legislated prejudice - identity politics is what caused slavery. It was identity politics that caused the genocide in Rwanda, one group was arbitrarily valued over another to the point where it became socially sanctioned to massacre the other group. Now, that won't happen in the USA since it isn't a backwater state, but the possibility for conflict remains significant. I don't personally think it'll ever get to that point in the USA, but then again many people thought nobody would ever try and fly an aircraft into a civilian skyscraper. It doesn't take much energy to speak out against the enthusiastic development of unreasonable thinking, it's any decent citizen's duty.

It starts out as murmurings at grassroots level about who matters and who doesn't, eventually it becomes mass graves in Stalin's Russia or pyres in Nazi Germany, or something as "insignificant" as retributive killings against innocent cops. Bottom line, America is primed for some kind of flashpoint and identitarians are doing nothing more than widening the rift because fools are allowing them to dominate the conversation.

There's no historical precedent for what you're suggesting. Nazis, for all their socialist postering, were much closer to the modern day far right and alt right. Blatant xenophobia, racism, homophobia, etc mixed with jingoism, white nationalism, fascism, authoritarianism, etc.

The closest these egalitarian, SJW come to being genocidal maniacs are maybe the student commies of China during the cultural revolution. But SJWs are far more likely to demand a Scandinavian system with free college than behead wealthy landowners in a Maoist revolution.

So again, neo nazis are much closer to actual nazis than SJW are to Maoist. I mean neo nazis actually use the term "nazi" in their name if the common beliefs weren't obvious enough.

SJW are entitled and annoying but they're not violent sociopaths advocating a race war. They're not the ones amassing weapons and training in the woods to overthrow the government.

Far right rhetoric is far more dangerous than safe spaces and transgender bathrooms. Get real.

 

[DeadPresident]

There's no historical precedent for what you're suggesting. Nazis, for all their socialist postering, were much closer to the modern day far right and alt right. Blatant xenophobia, racism, homophobia, etc mixed with jingoism, white nationalism, fascism, authoritarianism, etc.

The closest these egalitarian, SJW come to being genocidal maniacs are maybe the student commies of China during the cultural revolution. But SJWs are far more likely to demand a Scandinavian system with free college than behead wealthy landowners in a Maoist revolution.

So again, neo nazis are much closer to actual nazis than SJW are to Maoist. I mean neo nazis actually use the term "nazi" in their name if the common beliefs weren't obvious enough.

SJW are entitled and annoying but they're not violent sociopaths advocating a race war. They're not the ones amassing weapons and training in the woods to overthrow the government.

Far right rhetoric is far more dangerous than safe spaces and transgender bathrooms.

You're repeating yourself, and I already said what the regressive left is now isn't the point, it's how it could develop. You're busy comparing movements that had begun, evolved and ended to something that's only been around for less than a decade. Fascist liberals aren't very long in the making, is it going to end as a genocide? Probably not, but it might take a different but nonetheless violent shape. The point is certain groups (from the perspective of the fascist liberals) are more important than others, it's no different from the ideological underpinning of the likes of Nazis, the only thing that's changed is which identities they say are worthy of protection and existence and which aren't.

Get real.

Right

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So you're saying being more accepting of gays, persons of color, women, various religions, Jews, immigrants, the disabled, etc and helping people gain equal access the bathrooms, education, housing is how the Nazis started out?

Is this bizarro Nazi Germany?

You trollin, bro?

 

[Handsome Rob]

Right

I wouldn't bother. If the Communists of China, the Soviet Union, etc., and their body counts of millions-upon-millions had been vilified the way the Nazis were in Western culture and pop culture, you'd have plenty of Hype leftists insisting that those Communists were right-wing, too.

(Rightfully) stating that the Nazis were a left-wing party goes against an article of faith for the American left.

 

[DeadPresident]

So you're saying being more accepting of gays, persons of color, women, various religions, Jews, immigrants, the disabled, etc and helping people gain equal access the bathrooms, education, housing is how the Nazis started out?

Is this bizarro Nazi Germany?

You trollin, bro?

Do you not understand the distinction between liberals and REGRESSIVE liberals…? Liberals do the things you mentioned above, regressive liberals have identified certain identity categories as having more importance than others. Someone that tries to bring attention to and eliminate racial discrimination against black Americans could be classified as a liberal, someone who's taking part in the rising black nationalism found in certain parts of the BLM movement would probably be getting closer to being a liberal fascist.

Liberals have their token identities as do conservatives that are generally associated with those groups, the fascist minority in each of those groups is trying to establish its own identity groups as the de facto status quo over and above all the others. All I'm saying is recognize that the blanket term "liberal" isn't some kind of ordained vestige of virtue and morality like it may have been once upon a time - liberalism very much has its own little radicals developing.

But you can see the future and you've seen it'll all end peacefully, so it's all good

 

[DeadPresident]

I wouldn't bother. If the Communists of China, the Soviet Union, etc., and their body counts of millions-upon-millions had been vilified the way the Nazis were in Western culture and pop culture, you'd have plenty of Hype leftists insisting that those Communists were right-wing, too.

(Rightfully) stating that the Nazis were a left-wing party goes against an article of faith for the American left.

Yeah, I see there's some quick and untidy revisionist history going on in here. But then again, regressives of all walks of life always ignore or reframe inconvenient facts that make them have to consider uncomfortable truths about their gospel.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You know who resembles the nazis more than neo nazis?

Power Rangers!

Look at their color "identity politics" and sharp uniforms.