Discussion: Racism - Part 1

[auditor]

Isn't that racist? Hey, I don't see fellow white guys at X job so I'm not going to apply because I won't get the job because they're probably racist.

That is a self fulfilling prophecy...or as Kelly mentioned, a chicken vs egg debate.

its called false barriers. And yes just like my grandmother believed we should never have a woman president.

 

[chaseter]

All Americans pay taxes so all Americans would be paying for it.

It's not a punitive award. It's basic compensation for hundreds of years of free labor.

Other groups have recieved compensation like Native Americans and Jews so it's not that outlandish.

Like you said, trade schools added to k-12 would probably be the best way to help inner city youth.

However BLM is just asking for blacks to get a fat check which would only build resentment.

We do all pay taxes but I'm not paying for that.

Native Americans...we kind of took away all their land so we've given some back. If African Americans want land, then they should contact the different African governments. Japanese Americans we paid out $20 each from documented cases. I would be ok with paying out $20 to every living African American over the age of 60 if it means they would let go of the reparations BS.

BLM doesn't want a fact check...they want advancement on the backs of others because the ancestors of the others advanced off the backs of their ancestors....a legal eye for an eye pretty much.

 

[terry78]

20 bucks?


So they can gas up the old cadillac, right?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

We do all pay taxes but I'm not paying for that.

Native Americans...we kind of took away all their land so we've given some back. If African Americans want land, then they should contact the different African governments. Japanese Americans we paid out $20 each from documented cases. I would be ok with paying out $20 to every living African American over the age of 60 if it means they would let go of the reparations BS.

BLM doesn't want a fact check...they want advancement on the backs of others because the ancestors of the others advanced off the backs of their ancestors....a legal eye for an eye pretty much.

So Native Americans get displaced and their descendants get casinos worth billions and blacks are forced to work as slaves for centuries and their descendants get 20 bucks?

Seems a little unreasonable and malicious towards blacks in particular.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Land is an important contribution to USA becoming a world leader but so was 200 years of slave labor.

I don't agree that blacks should just get a 50,000 dollar check but the idea that America owes nothing for slavery is just as ridiculous as saying Native Americans are owed nothing.

 

[Schlosser85]

So Native Americans get displaced and their descendants get casinos worth billions and blacks are forced to work as slaves for centuries and their descendants get 20 bucks?

Seems a little unreasonable and malicious towards blacks in particular.

You do realize Native Americans in general (apart from the few casino owners) are the most impoverished minority in the US, with many still living on reservations with poor or no electricity and with the highest alcohol abuse, domestic abuse, and suicide rates of any American ethnic group, right?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You do realize Native Americans in general (apart from the few casino owners) are the most impoverished minority in the US, with many still living on reservations with poor or no electricity and with the highest alcohol abuse, domestic abuse, and suicide rates of any American ethnic group, right?

Well those casinos were poorly distributed.

Clearly there's a better way to use the casino funds to help their communities thrive.

This doesn't change the fact that giving tribes an income worth billions was justified.

 

[redhawk23]

Cold. Hard. Facts.

There is minimal differential between African Americans and Whites in income for their educational level. Whether it be high school, non high school, Associates or BA. There is a very small differential. Meanwhile Hispanics with a BA earn nearly $10,000 less than whites and blacks.

What numbers are you working off of because all the reports from earlier this summer shoes massive gaps between white and black income and wealth measures at all education levels. http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/27/news/economy/racial-wealth-gap-blacks-whites/

White households headed by someone with a college degree have a median wealth of $301,300 compared to college-educated black households, which have a median wealth of $26,300.

Even if things were equal within education levels, which they are not, educational resources are not evenly distributed. In most places educational funding is heavily tied to property taxes. White flight from city centers took industry and the tax base with them. Segregation separates blacks from the quality of educational resources enjoyed by white suburban communities. White property ownership, again promoted and subsidized by the government acted as an engine of wealth allowing for a pool from which whites have statistically more money to pay for college.

 

[chaseter]

20 bucks?


So they can gas up the old cadillac, right?

That's all Japanese Americans got for internment during WW2.

I asked the question in here and no one answered re: reparations. When does it end? At what point do people take responsibility for their own path because 99.9% of us have ancestors with messed up pasts. I might be rich today if my family weren't Irish and German settlers. My family has ZERO land or wealth. Why can't I be a Rockefeler!? My wife has French ancestry linked to San Francisco prostitution rings 100 years ago. They found a newspaper clipping or something. Most immigrants came and come here with nothing to their names.

 

[chaseter]

Land is an important contribution to USA becoming a world leader but so was 200 years of slave labor.

I don't agree that blacks should just get a 50,000 dollar check but the idea that America owes nothing for slavery is just as ridiculous as saying Native Americans are owed nothing.

Europe was built on white slavery and replaced only by economical slavery (feudalism). Rome was built by slaves. Egypt was built by slaves. Slavery has touched every habitable continent. We are all connected to slaves in some way. Slaves did build the US and they should be recognized historically. Their descendants however do not deserve repayment for social injustices. We all benefitted from the US's past no matter how horrific that past is. African Americans are now given preferential treatment through affirmative action, black only programs, and official representation through the NAACP, black caucus, etc. That was important 60 years ago. The generations of today in my opinion only have themselves to blame for their plight and don't deserve anything. This isn't 1965 let alone 1865 or 1765.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Let's pretend that the playing field was evened by the passing of the Civil Rights Bill and the gutted Voting Rights Act.

It's not like black people are disproportionately born into poverty, inherit considerably less wealth, and attend inferior schools. Or that they are being systematically disenfranchised politically.

That's all on them, right, Chaseter?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

That's all Japanese Americans got for internment during WW2.

I asked the question in here and no one answered re: reparations. When does it end? At what point do people take responsibility for their own path because 99.9% of us have ancestors with messed up pasts. I might be rich today if my family weren't Irish and German settlers. My family has ZERO land or wealth. Why can't I be a Rockefeler!? My wife has French ancestry linked to San Francisco prostitution rings 100 years ago. They found a newspaper clipping or something. Most immigrants came and come here with nothing to their names.

If German settlers were rounded up and forced to work without pay for centuries I'd have no problem with people with a certain amount of German ancestry having some type of compensation for said exploitation.

Jews and Native Americans were compensated to some extent. I'm not sure why blacks can't get something as well.

We're not talking about 15 years of indentured servitude. No, centuries of chattel slavery that helped America become one of the world's leading powers.

Now that the deed is done it's "hey we all started in the same circumstance, let's just pretend hundreds of years of financial exploitation never happened".

Okie dokie.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Europe was built on white slavery and replaced only by economical slavery (feudalism). Rome was built by slaves. Egypt was built by slaves. Slavery has touched every habitable continent. We are all connected to slaves in some way. Slaves did build the US and they should be recognized historically. Their descendants however do not deserve repayment for social injustices. We all benefitted from the US's past no matter how horrific that past is. African Americans are now given preferential treatment through affirmative action, black only programs, and official representation through the NAACP, black caucus, etc. That was important 60 years ago. The generations of today in my opinion only have themselves to blame for their plight and don't deserve anything. This isn't 1965 let alone 1865 or 1765.

Yeah many people have been displaced and slaughtered throughout history. Yet Jews and Native Americans were compensated for things that happened a very long time ago.

Are the poorest and least successful blacks responsible for their own plight? To some extent but trying to create reparation programs that help these people break the cycle of poverty and crime isn't a completely unreasonable idea.

If we can find a reparation program that increases the skills and success of the least successful slave descendants then we should do it. That's fewer criminals, fewer welfare recipients, fewer negative influences.

I'm against a one time check. I support something that"s proven to truly help break the cycle of poverty and crime.

This makes sense symbolically and pragmatically.

 

[chaseter]

Let's pretend that the playing field was evened by the passing of the Civil Rights Bill and the gutted Voting Rights Act.

It's not like black people are disproportionately born into poverty, inherit considerably less wealth, and attend inferior schools. Or that they are being systematically disenfranchised politically.

That's all on them, right, Chaseter?

White people did have an advantage 100 years ago. I won't argue that. What does that translate into today? 19 million white people are considered poor or about 10%. About 12 million black people are poor or about 27%. Is the proportion different because of only white racism? I would say yes a handful of generations ago. Today? No.

Only 1.4% of total whites in the US owned slaves. Only the wealthy owned slaves. That's the same today with top 1% owning more capital than the rest of us. There are some African Americans in that 1%. Secondly, regarding slaves, there were about 3,000 black slave owners. So, even some blacks benefited from black slavery. So, I don't think the problems of today are caused by slavery. Slavery is horrible but that was 200 years ago.

As for social policies and discrimination. Yes, that has a more current affect...but that too was 60 years ago. So, what keeps more blacks poor today than whites, proportionally? 72% of black children are born out of wedlock and 67% are raised in single parent homes. Compare that to 29% and 25% for whites, respectively. That has nothing to do with social policy TODAY. That has to do with personal responsibility. So, of course there are going to be more poor black household than whites when there are 2.5x more single black parents than single white parents. Look at those stats. 10% poor whites x 2.5 (single parent home differential) = 25% poor black homes I would hypothesize. Look how close those numbers match. It's a financial strain to raise kids alone. You can also add in education as education is key to success. Whites graduate high school at a rate 25% higher than blacks (86% vs 69%). That increases the household income gap between races even more. We can compare even more differentials such as crime stats. In my opinion, it's largely cultural today. The important thing to do is try to fix the issue through education. That's why I'm adamant about revamping k-12 and creating a 1-2 year extension school/vocational training. That way we all benefit.

 

[2kt09]

I brought this sort of thing up so often I might as well change my handle.

So, this seems relevant.

all this over a black cop shooting and killing an armed black career criminal.

 

[Sithborg]

So, Glen Beck was talking about being sympathetic toward Black Lives Matter.

If anyone needs me, I will be looking for the portal back to my reality.

 

[RockSP]

I brought this sort of thing up so often I might as well change my handle.

So, this seems relevant.

all this over a black cop shooting and killing an armed black career criminal.

LOL at number 6 on that list. It's written in an online article so it must be true.

 

[Mad Ones]

The amount of mental gymnastics people will go through to absolve white people of the privileges they get from histories of colonialism and slavery that still haunt as inequalities in America today. So much energy because what they feel entitled to is threatened.

 

[summerteeth]

The amount of mental gymnastics people will go through to absolve white people of the privileges they get from histories of colonialism and slavery that still haunt as inequalities in America today. So much energy because what they feel entitled to is threatened.

No, it's because it is an immigrant nation and we are talking of something that happened generations ago that people don't feel any connection to. I said before earlier, my family came here in the late 60's from Mexico. I don't know why we should be on the hook as taxpayers for stuff that happened before we even got here, same can be said with many other people in this country. How about we focus on solutions to help communities that need it instead of trying to blame people or execute some kind of punitive justice. All for ending the war on drugs, all for fixing the criminal justice system, all for improving educational opportunities. I think if we talk about this and come up with solutions that make sense for everyone you will see many many people across all political spectrums get on board, but if you continue to talk about white privilege, continue to talk reparations, you aren't going to accomplish much at all.

 

[Mad Ones]

No, it's because it is an immigrant nation and we are talking of something that happened generations ago that people don't feel any connection to. I said before earlier, my family came here in the late 60's from Mexico. I don't know why we should be on the hook as taxpayers for stuff that happened before we even got here, same can be said with many other people in this country. How about we focus on solutions to help communities that need it instead of trying to blame people or execute some kind of punitive justice. All for ending the war on drugs, all for fixing the criminal justice system, all for improving educational opportunities. I think if we talk about this and come up with solutions that make sense for everyone you will see many many people across all political spectrums get on board, but if you continue to talk about white privilege, continue to talk reparations, you aren't going to accomplish much at all.

No one making policies is talking about white privilege. The people making in charge of drugs, crime, immigration, and education have been making policies without considering who systems privilege and how is that working out? Working on improving the conditions of the marginalized means unpacking privileges afforded to people based on colonialism and slavery. You say it's an immigrant nation as if black slaves had the choice to come here.

 

[summerteeth]

No one making policies is talking about white privilege. The people making in charge of drugs, crime, immigration, and education have been making policies without considering who systems privilege and how is that working out? Working on improving the conditions of the marginalized means unpacking privileges afforded to people based on colonialism and slavery. You say it's an immigrant nation as if black slaves had the choice to come here.

Well first off, Hillary Clinton herself has mentioned white privilege so I don't know what you are talking about. Talking about the policies she's supported in the past is a different matter, but she's certainly talking about it today.

Again, I'm all for a discussion on looking at things and seeing how we can create more opportunity. What systems are adversely impacting one group over another etc and let's fix those systems to increase opportunity for everyone in this country.

Your last sentence is just a fallacy. By no means was I discussing the black immigrant experience. I was obviously discussing fourth wave immigration. People that had no say in what happened in the past, and no ancestral connection, but would be forced to pay into any type of reparation style program. Like I said, I'm not interested in punitive justice. I'm interested in finding solutions to the problem to create more opportunity.

 

[Mad Ones]

Solutions that create more opportunity is extremely vague which is why it's part of pretty much any political campaign.

 

[summerteeth]

Solutions that create more opportunity is extremely vague which is why it's part of pretty much any political campaign.

Not at all.


https://www.scott.senate.gov/opportunityagenda

 

[Mad Ones]

If it's that simple then why is nothing happening?

 

[summerteeth]

If it's that simple then why is nothing happening?

Never said it was simple, did I? but some of it has already been incorporated into actual legislation as noted on that page with a big old PASSED stamp in red letters.