Discussion: Racism - Part 1

[Slushy]

As many had theorized, George Soros funded BLM.

 

[2kt09]

LOL at number 6 on that list. It's written in an online article so it must be true.

The editor or one of the researchers formed a conclusion based on the footage of rioters shouting "Black Power" and some going as far as hunting white residents and drivers. It's unfortunate BLM has so many racist & aggressive beyond reason, anti-cop supporters to give them + other media outlets this impression.
The other 6 things have been reported or backed by on-site coverage.

The average black citizen has far more pertinent issues even with respect to violence to worry about & resolve than the "rogue" cop situation (which fact-based statistics are stacked against as far as relative importance - struck by lightning - & yet people want this to be the vocal plight of a minority race ).

 

[SuperT]

The editor or one of the researchers formed a conclusion based on the footage of rioters shouting "Black Power" and some going as far as hunting white residents and drivers. It's unfortunate BLM has so many racist & aggressive beyond reason, anti-cop supporters to give them + other media outlets this impression.
The other 6 things have been reported or backed by on-site coverage.

The average black citizen has far more pertinent issues even with respect to violence to worry about & resolve than the "rogue" cop situation (which fact-based statistics are stacked against as far as relative importance - struck by lightning - & yet people want this to be the vocal plight of a minority race ).

Don't presume to know what's important and not important to the average black citizen.

Non-black people love telling us what should and shouldn't be important to us as if you have a clue. Why don't y'all worry about the issues you have in your own communities before you start throwing stones at other people's glass houses.

 

[RockSP]

The editor or one of the researchers formed a conclusion based on the footage of rioters shouting "Black Power" and some going as far as hunting white residents and drivers.

Then the editor or researcher is an idiot. Someone shouting black power does not magically connect them to BLM. That site is clearly a cousin to Faux News.

 

[terry78]

If *******s are rioting and attacking white people for no reason, yeah, **** them *****s I say. But don't lump the entire cause into that.

 

[CaptainWagner]

If *******s are rioting and attacking white people for no reason, yeah, **** them *****s I say. But don't lump the entire cause into that.

That's the problem. The people actually looking for change need to organize and find ways to quell and distance themselves from those just looking for a reason to riot. Because all this noise drowns out the chances for actual progression.

 

[2kt09]

Don't presume to know what's important and not important to the average black citizen.

Non-black people love telling us what should and shouldn't be important to us as if you have a clue. Why don't y'all worry about the issues you have in your own communities before you start throwing stones at other people's glass houses.

My brown community seems to be very privileged in the US. I went to 3-4 funerals in my lifetime with one of those victims being unfortunately shot and killed leaving an infant child and mother by their lonesome.
Since, it's clear where I live, you might have also heard the recent news of an imam and his assistant getting shot and killed.

The stats have me to insinuate that black people are more likely to be terrified by other black people than cops by a long shot. The same applies to white people, but the rate & percentage of violence for an entire nation is somehow far worse because of what goes on in these black communities. Former Black panther members and "uncle toms" like Chris Rock call or would call that regressive.
#Rappers-Against-BLM
#Richard-Sherman-on-Black-on-Black-Crime
Heck, even the dad of the victim blames himself.

Then the editor or researcher is an idiot. Someone shouting black power does not magically connect them to BLM. That site is clearly a cousin to Faux News.

-shouting black power
-inciting violence against unaffiliated white citizens, mistaking an Asian for being white and escorting him from harm's way
-throwing projectiles and insults at cops
raw footage showcasing each & more
The news media and most of Youtube have covered almost every negative thing to come out of incidents/cases outright claiming to be BLM (including the non-violent kind). Too many "supporters" are misinformed when they attempt to debate.
I'm with Captain Wagner because even BLM "leaders" are barely denouncing this & trying to lump this with a MLKJ quote.

 

[chaseter]

The amount of mental gymnastics people will go through to absolve white people of the privileges they get from histories of colonialism and slavery that still haunt as inequalities in America today. So much energy because what they feel entitled to is threatened.

Privilege has nothing to do with being a single parent home, staying in school, or not committing crimes. That is called personal responsibility. I lay out factual statistics and you call it mental gymnastics.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

The stats have me to insinuate that black people are more likely to be terrified by other black people than cops by a long shot.

Would it shock you to learn that black people would rather not be murdered by the police nor other people with guns? In fact, black people have been more in favor of gun control than white people for at least the last 20 years. http://www.people-press.org/2015/08/13/gun-rights-vs-gun-control/#race

The same applies to white people, but the rate & percentage of violence for an entire nation is somehow far worse because of what goes on in these black communities.

I'm more concerned about the people who live in those areas than the effect on national statistics. They should not have to deal with police brutality and abuse of power on top of living in high crime neighborhoods.

While not nearly as sexy as rappers and comedians against BLM, I found this article on the judge overseeing police reform in Seattle much more relevant. http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ge-wont-let-guild-hold-police-reform-hostage/

 

[2kt09]

Would it shock you to learn that black people would rather not be murdered by the police nor other people with guns? In fact, black people have been more in favor of gun control than white people for at least the last 20 years. http://www.people-press.org/2015/08/13/gun-rights-vs-gun-control/#race

Of course not. No one's forcing these guys to carry stolen weapons or be irresponsible with legal firearms. It's somehow a myth that most conceal & carry people carry in case they have to defend themselves against potentially life-threatening encounters. Not everyone who supports the right to defend oneself carries, most likely because they might not live an environment where that's necessary like a functioning police state.
If these riots proved anything is that you too can be a violent criminal using things other than guns. You definitely don't need guns to be an arsonist.

I'm more concerned about the people who live in those areas than the effect on national statistics. They should not have to deal with police brutality and abuse of power on top of living in high crime neighborhoods.

It's a constant circle jerk. They're more likely to be dealt by police because the crime rate is so damn high & officers are trying to deal with that and then criminals try to hide or get hidden behind brutality while committing more crimes.

While not nearly as sexy as rappers and comedians against BLM

Larry Elder and Thomas Sowell, then, because the core message is the same.

I found this article on the judge overseeing police reform in Seattle much more relevant. http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ge-wont-let-guild-hold-police-reform-hostage/

Relevant to BLM. Cops being kept under check, so when will more people do their part and help out with the much larger factor in this equation?

 

[Mad Ones]

Privilege has nothing to do with being a single parent home, staying in school, or not committing crimes. That is called personal responsibility. I lay out factual statistics and you call it mental gymnastics.

Stats without a source and without talking about research methods or knowledge production. Include as many percentages as you want in your post but it doesn't cover your ignorance. Personal responsibility implies the game isn't rigged before you even play. Placing irresponsibility on the level of the individual is America's number one agenda and look how many people that way of thinking has helped.

 

[chaseter]

Where are your sources?

My sources are government published data. But, the government is racist so they may be incorrect.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Privilege has nothing to do with being a single parent home, staying in school, or not committing crimes. That is called personal responsibility. I lay out factual statistics and you call it mental gymnastics.

Most working age blacks don't commit crime and are employed tax payers so why should these people fear the police during routine stops any more than the average white guy?

 

[2kt09]

Most working age blacks don't commit crime and are employed tax payers so why should these people fear the police during routine stops any more than the average white guy?

Because the national crime stats are too damn high for a literal minority of the populace,
and yet...get ready for the irony...more white lives are taken by cops annually.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

Because the national crime stats are too damn high for a literal minority of the populace,
and yet...get ready for the irony...more white lives are taken by cops annually.

According to your first chart, not only are black people more likely to be the victims of black homicide than whites, blacks are more likely to be the victim of white homicide than whites are of black homicide. According to the second graph you posted, 4.18 black people per million were killed by the police compared to 1.65 white people per million.

The U.S. Department of Justice concludes in a study that the Baltimore Police Department routinely violated citizens' constitutional rights and describes the relationship between the community and the police as "broken."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...arly-violated-constitutional-rights/88489196/

"This enforcement strategy focused on African-Americans and predominantly African-American neighborhoods for discretionary enforcement actions, and it led to officers frequently stopping, searching and arresting individuals without the required constitutional justification," the report said. http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/11/us/baltimore-residents-doj-report/

While one of the worst examples of officer misconduct in the Department of Justice’s report on the Baltimore Police Department, it’s far from the only one. The report, released Wednesday after a 14-month investigation, concludes the BPD engages in a pattern of practice of unconstitutional stops, searches and arrests; unfairly targeting black people; excessive force; and retaliation.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article94829582.html#storylink=cpy​

Where's the outrage from the Constitution-loving alt-right?

 

[chaseter]

Most working age blacks don't commit crime and are employed tax payers so why should these people fear the police during routine stops any more than the average white guy?

Blacks make up 12% of local law enforcement overall. Blacks are 13% of the US population. So, those numbers are very very close. It's not like there are a large disproportionate number of blacks vs whites as cops, overall.

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbd...olice Departments 2013&utm_campaign=juststats

There is my government data for MadOnes.


Now, that is overall. There are jurisdictions where it is disproportionate, but overall, not really. The lack of black police officers in underrepresented jurisdictions would be a cultural issue as you have to apply to be a police officer, they aren't appointed. That's up to African Americans to want to be a police officer in their community. Other minorities such as Asians are severely underrepresented...and so are women.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Because the national crime stats are too damn high for a literal minority of the populace,
and yet...get ready for the irony...more white lives are taken by cops annually.

The violent criminals are only a small segment of the total black population. Most blacks still deserve fair treatment from the police.

And whites are 60% of the population. So ofcourse they're more whites who were shot but which unarmed person is more likely to be shot by the police? White or black?

 

[Kelly]

Blacks make up 12% of local law enforcement overall. Blacks are 13% of the US population. So, those numbers are very very close. It's not like there are a large disproportionate number of blacks vs whites as cops, overall.

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbd...olice Departments 2013&utm_campaign=juststats

There is my government data for MadOnes.


Now, that is overall. There are jurisdictions where it is disproportionate, but overall, not really. The lack of black police officers in underrepresented jurisdictions would be a cultural issue as you have to apply to be a police officer, they aren't appointed. That's up to African Americans to want to be a police officer in their community. Other minorities such as Asians are severely underrepresented...and so are women.

Overall statistics mean absolutely nothing....

That is the same mentality that my school administrators use when we as teacher say....UM......how is it that I have 40 kids in some of my classes, and you say that we are adhering to the rule of 25....and their answer...."Well, you average 25 students"....YEAH, because I have 10 in some classes and 40 in anothers.....HMMMMMMM......that classes of 40 are going to get screwed.

 

[chaseter]

According to your first chart, not only are black people more likely to be the victims of black homicide than whites, blacks are more likely to be the victim of white homicide than whites are of black homicide. According to the second graph you posted, 4.18 black people per million were killed by the police compared to 1.65 white people per million.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...arly-violated-constitutional-rights/88489196/



Where's the outrage from the Constitution-loving alt-right?

To jump into this one, look up the percentage of population of how many blacks commit homicides vs whites. I think it's 3x based on population. So, of course more blacks are going to get shot by cops proportionally because they were disproportionally involved in a crime that had a weapon involved (homicide). Cops responding to homicide calls usually don't roll up to a calm scene or a calm perpetrator.

I posted in length about this one in the community forum.

 

[chaseter]

Overall statistics mean absolutely nothing....

That is the same mentality that my school administrators use when we as teacher say....UM......how is it that I have 40 kids in some of my classes, and you say that we are adhering to the rule of 25....and their answer...."Well, you average 25 students"....YEAH, because I have 10 in some classes and 40 in anothers.....HMMMMMMM......that classes of 40 are going to get screwed.

You have to apply to become a cop. That means it is up to YOU to apply. Your analogy is not the same as you have no say over classroom sizes. Kids have no say in classroom sizes. An African American has a say whether they want to be a cop or not in their community. The under representation relies on the underrepresented minority to apply as it is illegal to deny employment based on race. There will always be outliers, statistically.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

According to your first chart, not only are black people more likely to be the victims of black homicide than whites, blacks are more likely to be the victim of white homicide than whites are of black homicide. According to the second graph you posted, 4.18 black people per million were killed by the police compared to 1.65 white people per million.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...arly-violated-constitutional-rights/88489196/



Where's the outrage from the Constitution-loving alt-right?

Does the far right consider themselves constitutional?

I thought tbey blatantly embraced authoritarianism.

 

[2kt09]

According to your first chart, not only are black people more likely to be the victims of black homicide than whites

Correct. Not enough people care about this while cops are the ones being jotted down on how much they care (the latter is fine because "protect and serve" as public servicemen and prove there's not an epidemic in abuse of power). bring black on black down and you're bound to see an effect on cop on black

blacks are more likely to be the victim of white homicide than whites are of black homicide.

The "first chart"?
white offenders: 189
total black victims: 2,491
offenders/total victims: 7.5%
black offenders: 409
total white victims: 3,005
offenders/total victims: 13.6%

According to the second graph you posted, 4.18 black people per million were killed by the police compared to 1.65 white people per million.

MessiahDecoy understands this pretty succinctly.
They're more likely because the population pool is smaller & I must reiterate within that pool are criminals doing ~50% of the total damage, so...
The 3rd source goes by both percentages (click per million) and actual numbers (click total)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...arly-violated-constitutional-rights/88489196/

Where's the outrage from the Constitution-loving alt-right?

As much outrage necessary to decry based on one city's study, but I would like the stats here on their use of "regularly". Is that publicly available?

The violent criminals are only a small segment of the total black population. Most blacks still deserve fair treatment from the police.

They sure do, but there are unfortunately too many crimes being committed by such a small segment so the cops are understandably on high alert. If an individual believes they're being searched/targeted unreasonably, let the cop know (record it if it's that serious) or take it to court as that is his/her constitutional right.

And whites are 60% 77% of the population. So of course they're more whites who were shot but which unarmed person is more likely to be shot by the police? White or black?

That's basic math for ya'. Do I have to keep repeating why this is sadly the way it is?
yes-sir-re more white lives (unarmed even) among all lives are taken by cops annually You can filter the results and see for yourself.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

The violent criminals are only a small segment of the total black population. Most blacks still deserve fair treatment from the police.

And whites are 60% of the population. So ofcourse they're more whites who were shot but which unarmed person is more likely to be shot by the police? White or black?

2015:
Of the 306 black people killed by the police, 79 were unarmed. 25.8%
Of the 581 white people killed by the police, 104 were unarmed. 17.9%

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

2015:
Of the 306 black people killed by the police, 79 were unarmed. 25.8%
Of the 581 white people killed by the police, 104 were unarmed. 17.9%

Well this statistic says it all.

Still more productive and less divisive than pointing out "All Lives Matter" and "blacks commit more crime".

That doesn't help anything yet that's where 99% of the "discussion" is.

 

[2kt09]

I agree until the numbers finally suit each and every intended narrative that's when it's productive and less divisive.