Discussion: Racism - Part 2

[Grommers]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/his-kampf/524505/?utm_source=fbb

This was a good read, thought I'd share.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Speaking of Jerusalem, I'm pretty sure Egypt doesn't do Jewish only graduations. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

People demand equality and an end to racism but purposefully separate themselves from everyone else. Yeah, that's gonna solve racism. What's next, separate drinking fountains at the school? Can't drink from those white colonialist fountains.

It's weird that you're completely removing the context. It's a separate ceremony meant to highlight a very small percentage of students attending a school that was historically built to disenfranchise them. It's as much a celebration as it is a political statement.

That's not the same thing as, "Can't use these facilities because you're dark."

 

[ouroboros]

Am I the official spokesperson for all white people? That guy deserves life in jail for a hate crime. He will get life in jail. What is going to happen LaVar Ball? Nothing. So...your point is???

IMO a better comparison to LaVar Ball would be Al Campanis, who was obliged to resign because of his opinion that (1) black people might not have the "necessities" to be managers, and, far more famously, (2) black people weren't good swimmers because they lacked buoyancy.

Both men made dopey racist remarks that weren't worth giving any thought to. I don't think either one should have been scourged for said remarks, but Campanis was apparently obliged to resign because of his. I suppose Ball might get some negative feedback, but if he's substantially penalized, I will be very surprised.

 

[The Overlord]

At this point, Trump's base is so xenophobic, he can turn them against countries like Germany and Canada, which doesn't fair well for the people from countries Trump base really hates

 

[hellified]

IMO a better comparison to LaVar Ball would be Al Campanis, who was obliged to resign because of his opinion that (1) black people might not have the "necessities" to be managers, and, far more famously, (2) black people weren't good swimmers because they lacked buoyancy.

Both men made dopey racist remarks that weren't worth giving any thought to. I don't think either one should have been scourged for said remarks, but Campanis was apparently obliged to resign because of his. I suppose Ball might get some negative feedback, but if he's substantially penalized, I will be very surprised.

penalized how? what power structure is lavar ball a part of? Campanis was a baseball executive which means he had influence in who gets what job. If his belief is that blacks innately lack certain abilities then that could very well be influencing his and the people under him's decision on who gets hired or promoted. Lavar ball is just a **** talker.

Your example illustrates perfectly how racism functions. Two people make the same or similar disparaging and ridiculous statements or sentiments but one had the power to back it up and the other doesn't.

 

[Erzengel]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4538398/Burrito-shop-shuts-accused-stealing-culture.html

Don't go to another country learn how to make a certain food and then go back to your own country and try and sell it.

 

[Donner]

Better shut down every taco stand in the States and, for good measure, Canada, too, because white people make the tacos.

Pathetic. If it's good food, who cares.

 

[terry78]

Now when it comes to orange chicken, Mexicans got the upper hand on the Chinese, I won't even pretend to front.

 

[Pink Ranger]

No joke, if I ever ran a restaurant, it would be a soul food and BBQ place. I guess I can't anymore.

But seriously though, this is ridiculous. Go to any restaurant, of any kind of food, French, Italian, US Texmex, whatever, and I bet you half the cooks are Asian. So we have to fire them now, because it's not their culture?

 

[Erzengel]

I remember picking up food from PF Changs and the pickup area was right next to the kitchen and it was all white people.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I remember picking up food from PF Changs and the pickup area was right next to the kitchen and it was all white people.

Yeah, but it's PF Chang's. No Asian cook worth his salt wants to take credit for that ****.

 

[ouroboros]

penalized how? what power structure is lavar ball a part of? Campanis was a baseball executive which means he had influence in who gets what job. If his belief is that blacks innately lack certain abilities then that could very well be influencing his and the people under him's decision on who gets hired or promoted. Lavar ball is just a **** talker.

Your example illustrates perfectly how racism functions. Two people make the same or similar disparaging and ridiculous statements or sentiments but one had the power to back it up and the other doesn't.

I don't believe the immorality of racism inheres in whether or not one happens to be part of the so-called power structure, though I can see how such a belief can be used to critique only those in power and allowing others to skate free. I've even encountered the idea that what people call "institutionalized racism" is or ought to be the sole definition of racism.

So you reply that Lavar Ball is just a ****-talker who has no power to hire and fire, and that's why he's not part of the power structure? Well, on that logic Don Imus should never have been fired for his "nappy headed hos" remark in 2007. He had no power to hire or fire, right? He wasn't an executive, right? And being that Imus was a shock jock, wasn't his job explicitly all about ****-talking, as opposed to Ball, who's just doing it to satisfy some animus against white players?

By the way, while Googling institutionalized racism I came across this interesting quote from Ben Shapiro:

I want to be on your side. I do. I want to fight racists. Again, I think racist behavior is evil. I want to fight it with you. But I can’t fight it if you’re not showing me what it is. We have to decide together if the policies you’re proposing will alleviate racism or exacerbate racism. And it turns out I think that a lot of the policies proposed by the left –I think “institutional racism” is a way, is usually a lever for proposing a policy that is actually unpalatable to freedom, and then castigating people on the other side of that policy as being in league with the “institutional racism.” The policies are either good or bad, without regard to words like “institutional racism,” is what I’m saying.

 

[ouroboros]

Now when it comes to orange chicken, Mexicans got the upper hand on the Chinese, I won't even pretend to front.

Spaghetti is considered the quintessential Italian dish, but Wiki says it probably came from the Middle East. Does that mean those long-ago Italians were guilty of (gasp) appropriation?

And did the makers of soul food swipe from Native Americans?

The Arawak way of barbecuing pork developed after the Spanish introduced domestic pigs to the Caribbean region.

 

[hellified]

I don't believe the immorality of racism inheres in whether or not one happens to be part of the so-called power structure, though I can see how such a belief can be used to critique only those in power and allowing others to skate free. I've even encountered the idea that what people call "institutionalized racism" is or ought to be the sole definition of racism.

So you reply that Lavar Ball is just a ****-talker who has no power to hire and fire, and that's why he's not part of the power structure? Well, on that logic Don Imus should never have been fired for his "nappy headed hos" remark in 2007. He had no power to hire or fire, right? He wasn't an executive, right? And being that Imus was a shock jock, wasn't his job explicitly all about ****-talking, as opposed to Ball, who's just doing it to satisfy some animus against white players?

By the way, while Googling institutionalized racism I came across this interesting quote from Ben Shapiro:

Don Imus was fired or suspended because of pressure put on sponsors of the show to pull out. What happened to Imus was a grassroots effort by consumers. If people want to boycott lavar ball theyre free to do so thats pretty much the only penalization he would get. Now if ball was an executive at say Nike and talked the crap he does his employment would have been summarily terminated long ago.


funny you should bring up institutionalized racism

[YT]KT1vsOJctMk[/YT]

 

[ouroboros]

Don Imus was fired or suspended because of pressure put on sponsors of the show to pull out. What happened to Imus was a grassroots effort by consumers. If people want to boycott lavar ball theyre free to do so thats pretty much the only penalization he would get. Now if ball was an executive at say Nike and talked the crap he does his employment would have been summarily terminated long ago.


funny you should bring up institutionalized racism

[YT]KT1vsOJctMk[/YT]

I certainly wouldn't characterize a lot of people calling up the radio station to complain any sort of "grassroots effort." It was just a lot of people *****ing, and the radio executives chose to cut their losses by cutting out Imus.

I'm not aware of any Black celebrity, executive or not, being penalized for racist remarks, but if you know of one, feel free to share.

I wondered if Jeremiah Wright might've been forced to retire after his anti-Semitic remarks in 2008, but one source asserted that he may have been planning to retire anyway prior to making the news.

 

[RockSP]

White supremacist terrorist stabs and kills two men in Portland. The two men (also white) were defending some muslim women that the terrorist was harassing: http://www.wweek.com/uncategorized/...top-anti-muslim-bullying-of-women-passengers/

 

[hellified]

I certainly wouldn't characterize a lot of people calling up the radio station to complain any sort of "grassroots effort." It was just a lot of people *****ing, and the radio executives chose to cut their losses by cutting out Imus.

I'm not aware of any Black celebrity, executive or not, being penalized for racist remarks, but if you know of one, feel free to share.

I wondered if Jeremiah Wright might've been forced to retire after his anti-Semitic remarks in 2008, but one source asserted that he may have been planning to retire anyway prior to making the news.

the thing against imus wasn't the march on washington but they made their point...

google isaiah washington. Dude lost his career for supposedly homophobic remarks...and he wasn't even talking to the guy who was gay.

 

[terry78]

I know the instances vary, but basically if you're black and you **** up it's a one strike and you're out kinda deal a lot of the time. Whereas someone of another race could do the same stupid **** and not get chewed out as much.

 

[ouroboros]

the thing against imus wasn't the march on washington but they made their point...

google isaiah washington. Dude lost his career for supposedly homophobic remarks...and he wasn't even talking to the guy who was gay.

The Isaiah case has some similarities to what we're talking about, but strictly speaking, it didn't involve a racist slur. Jeremiah Wright still seems to be the most high-profile guy to spout a really high level of racist cant without being totally ostracized. Google him and you'll find that despite retirement he still gives the occasional speech, dunno if it's for money or not. In one he called Obama a "Halfrican."

 

[TheCommissioner]

also Imus was on the downside, WFAN was growing tired of his antics and was looking to move on - it just happened sooner than expected

 

[hellified]

The Isaiah case has some similarities to what we're talking about, but strictly speaking, it didn't involve a racist slur. Jeremiah Wright still seems to be the most high-profile guy to spout a really high level of racist cant without being totally ostracized. Google him and you'll find that despite retirement he still gives the occasional speech, dunno if it's for money or not. In one he called Obama a "Halfrican."

you'd have to refresh my memory on what racist things wright said... also his fame is most directly tied to obama as hes a mainly chicago celeb..once obama distanced himself from him that was it for his national spotlight fame..

 

[ouroboros]

also Imus was on the downside, WFAN was growing tired of his antics and was looking to move on - it just happened sooner than expected

Sure, that happens a lot: organizational heads use a controversy about race or gender to bring about an effect that they wanted for other reasons.

I don't think the hidden motivations take away from the perception that the supervisors seek to create: that they are chastising someone for going over the line. If the standards were applied uniformly across the board, that would be no more than the name of the game that everyone has to play. And that's the question that interests me: what sort of things does the culture tolerate and what sort of things will it not tolerate, and why?

 

[ouroboros]

you'd have to refresh my memory on what racist things wright said... also his fame is most directly tied to obama as hes a mainly chicago celeb..once obama distanced himself from him that was it for his national spotlight fame..

Well, there was a lot of it, some directed at whites, some at Jews (making the slurs both ethnic and religious, I guess). There's nothing as succinct as "nappy headed hos," so anyone interested is free to Google it and see if the things he said are on a par with the quotes from Imus or Campanis. Your mileage may vary.

It's true that Wright got national exposure through his association with Obama, but once he was on a more public stage, one might have thought he might have sought to play down some of his more inflammatory statements. The fact that he did not suggests to me that he thought it more important to bring his version of the truth to his congregation.

 

[ouroboros]

I know the instances vary, but basically if you're black and you **** up it's a one strike and you're out kinda deal a lot of the time. Whereas someone of another race could do the same stupid **** and not get chewed out as much.

It depends on the circumstances. There's not much doubt that black people often get the short end of the stick any time an alleged crime is involved.

But in civil matters, some black people have been known to "work the system." A few months back, I heard an anecdote from a white female who said her whole department had to go through "sensitivity training." The reason? The supervisor had used the Southern expression "you all."

The woman told me the racial makeup of her department, which included a few whites, a few blacks, and a few Mexican-Americans. Now, I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to which group, or individual within a group, is most likely to have taken offense to "you all."

In all likelihood, the complainant probably wasn't even offended by the expression itself, but was using it as an excuse to "fight the Power." I've never been involved in a racially oriented workplace dispute, but I've been involved in other petty crap at work, and a lot of the complaints come down to petty spite.

 

[Matt]

Soooo...Bill Maher dropped the N-bomb last night on Real Time.