Discussion: Racism - Part 2

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Dude, you do realize I am a minority right that I am agreeing with him that racism against whites is wrong as well AS a minority?

I hold to Martin Luther King's belief in white and black and any race standing tall hand in hand. I don't believe in racism against any man. I don't believe calling someone the n word is right and I don't believe calling someone the whitedevil is right. To me the whole aim is for a nation to see each other as people rather than judging them by the color of their skin.

Maybe it's because I am a minority that was raised by to some sadly "the enemy." I, personally, can not justify racism coming from anyone. As to that I can not hold one militant group seeking an all one race nation with a history of using violence above another; even in the times of MLK - MLK clashed over that with X. I can not in good conscious hold one race being racist above the other. And I can not in good conscious forget that in the civil rights marches WHITE PEOPLE (yes, to some sadly the enemy) marched right alongside them - going all the way back to Lincoln's days. To me it's sickening when people readily dismiss that just because it doesn't match up with their "white devil" beliefs. In reality white people gave their lives fighting for equality as well (in the Civil War). So yes while it's true that for some their ancestors were devils, for others their ancestors fought in the name of freedom alongside MLK, Lincoln, and many others:

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It is because of this that I can't hold the "your ancestors did this or did that" for some - their ancestors fought in the civil war, for others their grandparents marched on Selma and DC for the "I have a dream" speech. That IS the "ancestoral truth" of the matters, people of all races past and present fought alongside one another in the name of freedom for all people.

While I haven't seen the video I will say this - ALL, if appropriate, can joke at the other. Stand up comedians of all races do it and as long as it's in good spirits I'm fine with that from ALL races. There is however a line and many of us when we hear it can tell when it is crossed on either side. When it goes beyond that, then it's racism for all. To me, in good conscious, I can not say one form of racism is good and the other is bad - ALL racism is bad.

Now is there equality yet? No. I, however, can not sit back and say one race should speak racist stances about the other. That's something I can not personally condone. If it's said about someone who is personally bigoted, by all means go at it - more than go at it. I have and will continue to do so. However, when it is a race as a whole I can not in good faith align with that at all saying ONE group has a 'right' to be racist since I believe NO GROUP does - I am at a loss of how any progress can ever be achieved that way.

Then you need to watch the video because there was nothing in that video that was racist. To be racist is to exhibit some form of control or power...exactly what control and or power do blacks or any minority group have over whites or any other group in this country?

Show me in american HISTORY where blacks made laws against whites or any group? Where blacks jailed and killed with damn near impunity whites and and other groups? Show me where blacks denied whites education or housing or jobs when did any of that happen in american history? THATS racism in action..what theyre talking about in that video displays none of that in any way.

Also in the video are gender bias issues...is anyone seriously making the case that women are more sexist or just as sexist as men? Mind you we live in a partriarchal society as well as one steeped in race.
 
As said, I didn't watch the video only agreed that racism against anyone is wrong in my view. Apply that however you will: racism against white people is wrong and racism against black people is wrong, racism against anyone is wrong. That is the only thing that I have stated.

I view any form of hate speech against a race as racism. For example backwards minded people calling Obama or his wife a monkey in any way, shape, or form is racism regardless of whether that person has power and control or not it's still racist to say those kinds of obscene things; I'm stating that because I'm sure you'd agree that that's racism in action as well. Or I think at least many would agree that hate speech is a form of racism. Stating Obama because despite Obama being the one with power and control, the one sprouting racist statements is still a racist regardless of Obama being the one with power, thus it does (at least to me) go further than that.
 
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Being racist is defined as holding the belief that a certain race is superior to another. Its definition doesn't depend on whether the person holding that belief holds power or control.

Saying someone is incapable of being racist simply because they're a minority is get-out-of-jail-free-card BS and not the definition of racism.
 
Being racist is defined as holding the belief that a certain race is superior to another. Its definition doesn't depend on whether the person holding that belief holds power or control.

Saying someone is incapable of being racist simply because they're a minority is get-out-of-jail-free-card BS and not the definition of racism.

1. I never said anyone was incapable of being racist.

2. I personally disagree with that definition. Its too broad and not very specific to the action of racism.

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm
noun
1. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.


A belief system is something thats going on in your head...I can't do anything about what you think or believe or even say..I can only deal with what you DO and how you ACT toward me. You can BELIEVE i'm a n-word all day long and while that may hurt my feelings it doesn't really matter becuz whats going on in your head doesn't take food off my table or deny me access to anything or opportunity to support or better myself. Only when you start putting that belief in ACTION do we have a problem.

Example: A white guy works in the mail room of a company believes blacks are subhumans who shouldn't be working at the company he works at.

A white guy just hired as CEO of the company believes blacks are subhumans who shouldn't be working at the company he works at.

Youre a black man in middle management of this company and up for a promotion.

Between the two who has the greater potential to affect your life in real ways??

The mailroom clerk who believes youre a subhuman or the CEO who believes your a subhuman?? I'll give you a hint...that black guy knows what the mail clerk thinks of him and he doesn't care..you know why?

BECAUSE THAT MAIL CLERK DOESN'T HAVE THE POWER TO AFFECT HIS LIFE...the CEO on the other hand..thats a different story.


the definition of racism should read:

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm

1. prejudice empowered with leverage or authority

Its not passive its something one actively practices. Racism = prejudice + power. thats it..thats all you need.

Africans weren't enslaved by the n-word..or europeans belief that africans were inferior. They were enslaved by actions in fact the n-word and the inferiority belief came AFTER the development of the atlantic slave trade to JUSTIFY treating people like animals. If pseudo science and an interpretation of bible verses says its true then its okay.

Now understanding that definition how have black people AS A GROUP committed as much or more racism against whites AS A GROUP today?
 
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To my knowledge absolutely no one here is saying blacks haven't suffered more. You ask all here, they'd agree that they have. Or I am pretty sure/hope that is the case. The only thing I have ever seen said here is that racism is wrong regardless of what the other race is. That racism is never justified against black, white, or whatever. That people should be judged by their character, not the color of one's skin.
 
To my knowledge absolutely no one here is saying blacks haven't suffered more. You ask all here, they'd agree that they have. Or I am pretty sure/hope that is the case. The only thing I have ever seen said here is that racism is wrong regardless of what the other race is. That racism is never justified against black, white, or whatever. That people should be judged by their character, not the color of one's skin.

Its not about guilt tripping people with who suffered more its about white people TODAY in the 21st century are saying that blacks are as much or more racist than whites today. That the tables have turned somehow.

My question is in what real world ways is this true?

Of issues that MLK and other civil marchers dealt with name calling and what white people beleive about them wasn't at the top of it.

in his famous "Letter from Birmingham Jail" he lists all the ways racism affects black people in that time.

I guess it is easy for those who have never felt the stinging darts of segregation to say "wait."

But when you have seen vicious mobs lynch your mothers and fathers at will and drown your sisters and brothers at whim;

when you have seen hate-filled policemen curse, kick, brutalize, and even kill your black brothers and sisters with impunity;

when you see the vast majority of your twenty million Negro brothers smothering in an airtight cage of poverty in the midst of an affluent society;

when you suddenly find your tongue twisted and your speech stammering as you seek to explain to your six-year-old daughter why she cannot go to the public amusement park that has just been advertised on television, and see tears welling up in her little eyes when she is told that Funtown is closed to colored children, and see the depressing clouds of inferiority begin to form in her little mental sky, and see her begin to distort her little personality by unconsciously developing a bitterness toward white people;

when you have to concoct an answer for a five-year-old son asking in agonizing pathos, "Daddy, why do white people treat colored people so mean?";

when you take a cross-country drive and find it necessary to sleep night after night in the uncomfortable corners of your automobile because no motel will accept you;

when you are humiliated day in and day out by nagging signs reading "white" and "colored"; when your first name becomes "******" and your middle name becomes "boy" (however old you are) and your last name becomes "John," and when your wife and mother are never given the respected title "Mrs.";

when you are harried by day and haunted by night by the fact that you are a Negro, living constantly at tiptoe stance, never quite knowing what to expect next, and plagued with inner fears and outer resentments;

when you are forever fighting a degenerating sense of "nobodyness"--


then you will understand why we find it difficult to wait.

In listing the day to day issues Blacks had and in some ways still have to deal with real world racism..name calling is low on that list.

Again I ask If blacks today are more or just as racist as whites...in what real world ways is this true?


If all you have is name calling and guiltripping/feeling bad at the top of your list then thats not much if anything.
 
Again. Dude. Nobody here has any idea who you are talking about or to who. It feels like projection at who I do not know. Because everybody here has thus far said that blacks have suffered worse than white people, that both unfortunately have racist people among them. I would say if it's more who have suffered it is black people yesterday and today than white people. But many here, myself included believe in rising above it and in being the better man. In following the MLK route than the one X preached about.

You seem to equate those saying racism is wrong all around for everybody as saying white people are less racist? I nor any here (I'm guessing from the other replies) have seen that if anyone here has posted as such, quote it to show as such. Right now it just looks like projection at who I do not know because nobody here is saying that.

Basically all that's going on now is you're arguing a point that nobody is arguing about.
 
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Again. Dude. Nobody here has any idea who you are talking about or to who. It feels like projection at who I do not know. Because everybody here has thus far said that blacks have suffered worse than white people, that both unfortunately have racist people among them. I would say if it's more who have suffered it is black people yesterday and today than white people. But many here, myself included believe in rising above it and in being the better man. In following the MLK route than the one X preached about.

You seem to equate those saying racism is wrong all around for everybody as saying white people are less racist? I nor any here (I'm guessing from the other replies) have seen that if anyone here has posted as such, quote it to show as such. Right now it just looks like projection at who I do not know because nobody here is saying that.

Basically all that's going on now is you're arguing a point that nobody is arguing about.

I'm not projecting anything...you mention racism all around and someone posted a video from MTV as an example of "if white people did this..."

And I'm saying show me the racism thats coming from all around which I assume means racism from every group.. show me that..

show me how that video is racist? why because it says hey white guys..you know that "all lives matter" thing youre doing is deflectionary bullcrap. you know it and we know so could you stop saying it in 2017? thats racist??

how about this one:

Dear Racism
You Come In Every Color
But People Only Care If It's White
Quit Being Racist, Racism
Sincerely,
These White Hands

$20. Who wants one?

show me the racism that comes in every color in america?..

I'd say racism towards white people also exist. To me the violent Black Panthers and other groups, as said so REPEATEDLY in the past, are just as bad as the KKK and Nazis.

The hilarious thing here is nobody could ever get me to say minorities hold racism alone. I'm a minority but my family is - WHITE. Similar to Obama, I'm basically directly in the middle of it.

show me the racism towards white PEOPLE?

If you did a side by side comparison of the kkk and nazis next to the black panthers and "other groups" I'm assuming you mean minority militant groups..you wouldn't make that comparison.
 
Lol. Okay dude. You're right. White people are the only ones being racist. Minorities shouting "kill all white people" and etc. are in the right because the KKK exist. When minorities mock and condemn all white people, that's not racism. I'm frankly tired of this. To you clearly only minorities can condemn and mock an entire race of people and little anyone can say would change your view of that. AS A RACIAL MINORITY I can only at this point tell others not all minorities view things that way. I'm out.
 
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Lol. Okay dude. You're right. White people are the only ones being racist. Minorities shouting "kill all white people" and etc. are in the right because the KKK exist. When minorities mock and condemn all white people, that's not racism. I'm frankly tired of this. To you clearly only minorities can condemn and mock an entire race of people and little anyone can say would change your view of that. AS A RACIAL MINORITY I can only at this point tell others not all minorities view things that way. I'm out.

you can be glib about it if you want but I'm showing you real world examples of what racism looks like and youre giving me people shouting BS and making videos and saying this is as bad as that other stuff...:whatever:
 
Lol. Okay dude. You're right. White people are the only ones being racist. Minorities shouting "kill all white people" and etc. are in the right because the KKK exist. When minorities mock and condemn all white people, that's not racism. I'm frankly tired of this. To you clearly only minorities can condemn and mock an entire race of people and little anyone can say would change your view of that. AS A RACIAL MINORITY I can only at this point tell others not all minorities view things that way. I'm out.

These kinds of posts really do not further the discussion at all...
 
These kinds of posts really do not further the discussion at all...

There is nowhere for it to go. Anyone is open to try if they want, but I've personally had enough and can't get bogged down by arguing that "white people experience racism as well" as well as "militant black panthers and KKK are BOTH in the wrong, neither is in the right." :cwink:

Others can take it on, but I personally don't see it going anywhere.
 
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There is no discussion when the person you are talking to isn't listening and doesn't care about anyone else's viewpoint but their own.

To say racism is only bad when there is systemic power behind it is about the most asinine thing I've ever heard. That's like saying you're not gay if you're the one on top. It's just about the POWER BRO.
 
Is the KKK a racist group today? I mean they don't really have any 'power'.
 
There is no discussion when the person you are talking to isn't listening and doesn't care about anyone else's viewpoint but their own.

To say racism is only bad when there is systemic power behind it is about the most asinine thing I've ever heard. That's like saying you're not gay if you're the one on top. It's just about the POWER BRO.

its not assinine its the action that goes with the words... that list of things that MLK talked about are the REAL effects of racism. You take away all that stuff and all you got is name calling and **** talking.

Calling a white person white devil in a real world sense is no more racist than calling a white person stupid or ugly. It doesn't reference a history of pain or suffering for them. A black person calling a white person cracker or honkey for example doesn't have the same reference to a history or time when whites were persecuted and killed at will as when a white person calling a black person the n-word. They don't have the same history or weight.

Jews are VERY sensitive to ethnic slurs and hate speech directed at them because there is a very REAL HISTORY of violence and death that comes with with those words. When people said those words they were herding them into camps and gas chambers and killing them en masse thats why they say never again and immediatley jump on anyone for saying anything close to hate speech or slurs directed at them.

I'll give you a gender example...

**** or ****e are words designed to shame and control female sexual behavior. It references something thats real that women have to deal with which is being percieved as reprehensible and to be shunned. Thats a REAL effect on a female in society.

Now whats the SAME TYPE of word or insult you can call a man that brings the same sense of shame and disgrace for promiscuous behavior? There really isn't one because men's sexual behavior isn't scutinized in the same way or manner. There is no male version of **** or ****e. And even if you call a man a DOG because he's promiscuous...does that really hurt you? Is there a historical reference of society shaming a man for promiscuous behavior? no.

So when men feign being upset because a women calls him a pig or dog and he says "I'm hurt..why if I said something like that to a woman blah blah blah..." the reaction is :whatever: :whatever:

I'm NOT saying its okay to call white people names or make hate speech about them or thats its okat to call men names..I'm explaining WHY the reaction to that stuff is different or lesser than when its directed at some other ethnic groups in america or women.

That is essentially the underlying basis of that MTV video. Now if you don't want to accept that or understand that then YOURE the one thats not listening or doesn't care to hear and dismissive of the others viewpoint.
 
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Is the KKK a racist group today? I mean they don't really have any 'power'.
they have a legacy and a long one. The fact that they were created in the 1800s and STILL exist today is testament to some level of power.

The Black Panthers of the 60s that everyone keeps comparing them to lasted all of 16 years from the mid 60s to about the early 80s but their most popular effect peak time was about 5 years or so.

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Boykin.png

The rainbow coalition was an active coalition which consisted of many members such as Fred Hampton from the Black Panthers, William “Preacherman” Fesperan, Hy Thurman from the Young Patriots Organization, Jack (Junebug) Boykin, Jose Cha Cha Jimenez, the Puerto Rican founder of the Young Lords Party, among others.

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At the peak of their popularity they formed coalitions with other ethnic groups including whites.

The violence the BP engaged in was mainly with police and at that time the cops were as likely to start or escalate violence as anyone. This is the same time period when police were beating peaceful protesters and harassing people. The organization was effectively dismantled by the fed govt in a program called COINTELPRO.

The group today that calls themselves the NEW black panther party has been disavowed by the surviving original members.

So when people compare them to the kkk they have no idea what theyre talking about.
 
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I'm NOT saying its okay to call white people names or make hate speech about them or thats its okat to call men names..I'm explaining WHY the reaction to that stuff is different or lesser than when its directed at some other ethnic groups in america or women. .

So basically you agree with everyone you're arguing with, because the only thing people have said is that racism against any is still racism. Hate speech against any is still hate speech. It's coming off more now as semantics.

I might be wrong, but the only point DeadPresident was trying to make I'm pretty sure was racism is going to be around as long as there are racist people - which to me makes more than a lot of sense: racism will exist as long as anyone is racist.

The group today that calls themselves the NEW black panther party has been disavowed by the surviving original members. .

So basically it comes down to semantics. There is a reason the black panthers disowned them, those extremist aren't in the right - even to them. To clear up confusion should have stated "some" if I knew it came down to that. The militant ones screaming "KILL all white people" going as far as violence which now it sounds like even you don't agree with. The whole point was every race has people aiming to kill them because of their race, sadly.

Thus, more or less you agree. The only one who talked about who had it worse, I am pretty sure, was you because no one was talking who had it worse to my knowledge. Nobody was saying white people have it to those degrees, to my knowledge. Everyone else was just saying racism is racism. Or if it's still a matter of semantics, hate speech is wrong for anyone doing it.

In other words, to me, it sounds like everyone IS in agreement and the difference came down to semantics making you believe we're stating something and making us believe you're saying something. But, now it's reading as though everyone's saying the same thing just with different words and phrasings being taken to their extremes.
 
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So basically you agree with everyone you're arguing with, because the only thing people have said is that racism against any is still racism. I might be wrong, but the only point DeadPresident was trying to make was that basically racism is going to be around as long as there are racist people - which to me makes more than a lot of sense: racism will exist as long as anyone is racist.

the example he used was a bad one and not illustrative of racism at all.


So basically it comes down to semantics. There is a reason the black panthers disowned them, those extremist aren't in the right even to them. The militant ones screaming "KILL all white people" going as far as violence which now it sounds like even you don't agree with those doing that.

Thus, more or less you agree. The only one who talked about who had it worse, I am.pretty sure, was you man. Everyone else was just saying racism is racism. Or if it's still a matter of semantics for you, that hate speech is wrong for any doing it.

the original black panthers aren't like the kkk in any way and the new black panthers haven't committed any acts of violence on whites so they aren't like the kkk either. there is no semantics about it. the comparison is just not true or right by any measure..
 
the example he used was a bad one and not illustrative of racism at all.

the original black panthers aren't like the kkk in any way and the new black panthers haven't committed any acts of violence on whites so they aren't like the kkk either. there is no semantics about it. the comparison is just not true or right by any measure..

But you agree with the words DeadPresident used more or les saying racism will continue to exist as long as racism exists?

With some militant black panthers shouting such things as "death to white people" it is severely hard for me to tell who is a member and who just holds that same militant view. Or even if those who go to that extreme and state similarly are or are not involved.

Chris Woods was killed in 2013 for example by James Edwards, fastest I could pull up.

The tweets and Facebook status updates from accounts linked to James Edwards paint a very clear picture of someone obsessed with violence and hatred for white people. Edwards had no problem putting violent and hate-filled messages like "90% of white ppl are nasty. #HATE THEM." or "knocked out 5 woods since Zimmerman court." out for public consumption. "Woods" is a slang term for white people.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.mic....e-murder-wasn-t-a-tragedy-it-was-a-hate-crime

And there are plenty of more articles about this example and others can find more. Minorities who view all white people as evil and go beyond just talk, but actually kill them for being white as well. More minorities are killed but this is to show/prove it happens to white people as well. There are groups (and I don't know the names of all of them or hell, there might even be a much better example of these militant groups among minorities) that believe white people are evil and must be eliminated.

This got lost during all of the hate tagging after the election that was going on:

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Not many wanted to stop and pay attention to incidents as illustrated above. I'm unsure what black lives matter and what is written has to do with each other. My point is words like these were written as well as all the tagged kkk and nazi symbols as well.

There was also a hispanic woman on the news, video can be found on youtube, shouting about how a war has begun and how people must be killed (she was aiming at Trump supporters, but if you see her manic behavior as well as "kill white people" and the minority narrative at that time being all white people voted Trump - I seriously do not think she would care to tell a difference). That this is KILLING time. I'm hispanic and frankly that woman scared the hell out of me seeing that narrative and that she was out for blood. While many minorities were afraid of what would happen to them and those like them, I was afraid of what would happen to me as a minority as well as what would happen to my white family.

My whole ENTIRE point is white people are killed for the color of their skin as well. There are crime reports, groups and people shouting that, and spray painted tags as well all illuminating this. Do I know if some of these are militant black panthers? No, but I do know those militant have expressed similar views so a 'lone soldier' type being among these wouldn't surprise me (lone soldier is the term given to individuals from these anti-____ race groups that separate from the pack and carry through with violence in the name of a race war rather than just talk).

None of this - any race being killed for the color of their skin - is even remotely right. And yes, it does happen to white people as well. As said, I'm hispanic and that hispanic woman shouting about killing people and all those 'kill white people' tags absolutely terrified me. Maybe this is because while I'm hispanic, my family is white - following the election I wasn't just scared as a minority, I was scared of people who were coming out and had their sights on my family. Different 'beliefs' (one says kill minorities, the other whites) but both were chilling to me as someone in an inter racial family and both absolutely terrified me to the same degree. While they weren't aiming against me, they were aiming to act against my family.

All too frequently white people bring this up and all too frequently they're told to stop whining because it happens to minorities more. It shouldn't happen period and white people shouldn't be silenced about speaking up about this either since it is very real and it is a danger.
 
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Interesting article on political correctness:

Political correctness: how the right invented a phantom enemy
For 25 years, invoking this vague and ever-shifting nemesis has been a favourite tactic of the right – and Donald Trump’s victory is its greatest triumph .

Three weeks ago, around a quarter of the American population elected a demagogue with no prior experience in public service to the presidency. In the eyes of many of his supporters, this lack of preparation was not a liability, but a strength. Donald Trump had run as a candidate whose primary qualification was that he was not “a politician”. Depicting yourself as a “maverick” or an “outsider” crusading against a corrupt Washington establishment is the oldest trick in American politics – but Trump took things further. He broke countless unspoken rules regarding what public figures can or cannot do and say.

Every demagogue needs an enemy. Trump’s was the ruling elite, and his charge was that they were not only failing to solve the greatest problems facing Americans, they were trying to stop anyone from even talking about those problems. “The special interests, the arrogant media, and the political insiders, don’t want me to talk about the crime that is happening in our country,” Trump said in one late September speech. “They want me to just go along with the same failed policies that have caused so much needless suffering.”

Trump claimed that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were willing to let ordinary Americans suffer because their first priority was political correctness. “They have put political correctness above common sense, above your safety, and above all else,” Trump declared after a Muslim gunman killed 49 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando. “I refuse to be politically correct.” What liberals might have seen as language changing to reflect an increasingly diverse society – in which citizens attempt to avoid giving needless offence to one another – Trump saw a conspiracy.

Throughout an erratic campaign, Trump consistently blasted political correctness, blaming it for an extraordinary range of ills and using the phrase to deflect any and every criticism. During the first debate of the Republican primaries, Fox News host Megyn Kelly asked Trump how he would answer the charge that he was “part of the war on women”.

“You’ve called women you don’t like ‘fat pigs,’ ‘dogs,’ ‘slobs,’ and ‘disgusting animals’,” Kelly pointed out. “You once told a contestant on Celebrity Apprentice it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees …”

“I think the big problem this country has is being politically correct,” Trump answered, to audience applause. “I’ve been challenged by so many people, I don’t frankly have time for total political correctness. And to be honest with you, this country doesn’t have time either.”

Trump used the same defence when critics raised questions about his statements on immigration. In June 2015, after Trump referred to Mexicans as “rapists”, NBC, the network that aired his reality show The Apprentice, announced that it was ending its relationship with him. Trump’s team retorted that, “NBC is weak, and like everybody else is trying to be politically correct.”

In August 2016, after saying that the US district judge Gonzalo Curiel of San Diego was unfit to preside over the lawsuit against Trump Universities because he was Mexican American and therefore likely to be biased against him, Trump told CBS News that this was “common sense”. He continued: “We have to stop being so politically correct in this country.” During the second presidential debate, Trump answered a question about his proposed “ban on Muslims” by stating: “We could be very politically correct, but whether we like it or not, there is a problem.”

Trump and his followers never defined 'political correctness”, or specified who was enforcing it. They did not have to
Every time Trump said something “outrageous” commentators suggested he had finally crossed a line and that his campaign was now doomed. But time and again, Trump supporters made it clear that they liked him because he wasn’t afraid to say what he thought. Fans praised the way Trump talked much more often than they mentioned his policy proposals. He tells it like it is, they said. He speaks his mind. He is not politically correct.

Trump and his followers never defined “political correctness”, or specified who was enforcing it. They did not have to. The phrase conjured powerful forces determined to suppress inconvenient truths by policing language.

There is an obvious contradiction involved in complaining at length, to an audience of hundreds of millions of people, that you are being silenced. But this idea – that there is a set of powerful, unnamed actors, who are trying to control everything you do, right down to the words you use – is trending globally right now. Britain’s rightwing tabloids issue frequent denunciations of “political correctness gone mad” and rail against the smug hypocrisy of the “metropolitan elite”. In Germany, conservative journalists and politicians are making similar complaints: after the assaults on women in Cologne last New Year’s Eve, for instance, the chief of police Rainer Wendt said that leftists pressuring officers to be politisch korrekt had prevented them from doing their jobs. In France, Marine Le Pen of the Front National has condemned more traditional conservatives as “paralysed by their fear of confronting political correctness”.

Trump’s incessant repetition of the phrase has led many writers since the election to argue that the secret to his victory was a backlash against excessive “political correctness”. Some have argued that Hillary Clinton failed because she was too invested in that close relative of political correctness, “identity politics”. But upon closer examination, “political correctness” becomes an impossibly slippery concept. The term is what Ancient Greek rhetoricians would have called an “exonym”: a term for another group, which signals that the speaker does not belong to it. Nobody ever describes themselves as “politically correct”. The phrase is only ever an accusation.

If you say that something is technically correct, you are suggesting that it is wrong – the adverb before “correct” implies a “but”. However, to say that a statement is politically correct hints at something more insidious. Namely, that the speaker is acting in bad faith. He or she has ulterior motives, and is hiding the truth in order to advance an agenda or to signal moral superiority. To say that someone is being “politically correct” discredits them twice. First, they are wrong. Second, and more damningly, they know it.

If you go looking for the origins of the phrase, it becomes clear that there is no neat history of political correctness. There have only been campaigns against something called “political correctness”. For 25 years, invoking this vague and ever-shifting enemy has been a favourite tactic of the right. Opposition to political correctness has proved itself a highly effective form of crypto-politics. It transforms the political landscape by acting as if it is not political at all. Trump is the deftest practitioner of this strategy yet.

Most Americans had never heard the phrase “politically correct” before 1990, when a wave of stories began to appear in newspapers and magazines. One of the first and most influential was published in October 1990 by the New York Times reporter Richard Bernstein, who warned – under the headline “The Rising Hegemony of the Politically Correct” – that the country’s universities were threatened by “a growing intolerance, a closing of debate, a pressure to conform”.

Bernstein had recently returned from Berkeley, where he had been reporting on student activism. He wrote that there was an “unofficial ideology of the university”, according to which “a cluster of opinions about race, ecology, feminism, culture and foreign policy defines a kind of ‘correct’ attitude toward the problems of the world”. For instance, “Biodegradable garbage bags get the PC seal of approval. Exxon does not.”

Bernstein’s alarming dispatch in America’s paper of record set off a chain reaction, as one mainstream publication after another rushed to denounce this new trend. The following month, the Wall Street Journal columnist Dorothy Rabinowitz decried the “brave new world of ideological zealotry” at American universities. In December, the cover of Newsweek – with a circulation of more than 3 million – featured the headline “THOUGHT POLICE” and yet another ominous warning: “There’s a ‘politically correct’ way to talk about race, sex and ideas. Is this the New Enlightenment – or the New McCarthyism?” A similar story graced the cover of New York magazine in January 1991 – inside, the magazine proclaimed that “The New Fascists” were taking over universities. In April, Time magazine reported on “a new intolerance” that was on the rise across campuses nationwide.

If you search ProQuest, a digital database of US magazines and newspapers, you find that the phrase “politically correct” rarely appeared before 1990. That year, it turned up more than 700 times. In 1991, there are more than 2,500 instances. In 1992, it appeared more than 2,800 times. Like Indiana Jones movies, these pieces called up enemies from a melange of old wars: they compared the “thought police” spreading terror on university campuses to fascists, Stalinists, McCarthyites, “Hitler Youth”, Christian fundamentalists, Maoists and Marxists.

Many of these articles recycled the same stories of campus controversies from a handful of elite universities, often exaggerated or stripped of context. The New York magazine cover story opened with an account of a Harvard history professor, Stephan Thernstrom, being attacked by overzealous students who felt he had been racially insensitive: “Whenever he walked through the campus that spring, down Harvard’s brick paths, under the arched gates, past the fluttering elms, he found it hard not to imagine the pointing fingers, the whispers. Racist. There goes the racist. It was hellish, this persecution.”

In an interview that appeared soon afterwards in The Nation, Thernstrom said the harassment described in the New York article had never happened. There had been one editorial in the Harvard Crimson student newspaper criticising his decision to read extensively from the diaries of plantation owners in his lectures. But the description of his harried state was pure “artistic licence”. No matter: the image of college students conducting witch hunts stuck. When Richard Bernstein published a book based on his New York Times reporting on political correctness, he called it Dictatorship of Virtue: Multiculturalism and the Battle for America’s Future – a title alluding to the Jacobins of the French Revolution. In the book he compared American college campuses to France during the Reign of Terror, during which tens of thousands of people were executed within months.

None of the stories that introduced the menace of political correctness could pinpoint where or when it had begun. Nor were they very precise when they explained the origins of the phrase itself. Journalists frequently mentioned the Soviets – Bernstein observed that the phrase “smacks of Stalinist orthodoxy”– but there is no exact equivalent in Russian. (The closest would be “ideinost”, which translates as “ideological correctness”. But that word has nothing to do with disadvantaged people or minorities.) The intellectual historian LD Burnett has found scattered examples of doctrines or people being described as “politically correct” in American communist publications from the 1930s – usually, she says, in a tone of mockery.

The phrase came into more widespread use in American leftist circles in the 1960s and 1970s – most likely as an ironic borrowing from Mao, who delivered a famous speech in 1957 that was translated into English with the title “On the Correct Handling of Contradictions Among the People”.

Until the late 1980s, 'political correctness' was used exclusively within the left, and almost always ironically
Ruth Perry, a literature professor at MIT who was active in the feminist and civil rights movements, says that many radicals were reading the Little Red Book in the late 1960s and 1970s, and surmises that her friends may have picked up the adjective “correct” there. But they didn’t use it in the way Mao did. “Politically correct” became a kind of in-joke among American leftists – something you called a fellow leftist when you thought he or she was being self-righteous. “The term was always used ironically,” Perry says, “always calling attention to possible dogmatism.”

In 1970, the African-American author and activist Toni Cade Bambara, used the phrase in an essay about strains on gender relations within her community. No matter how “politically correct” her male friends thought they were being, she wrote many of them were failing to recognise the plight of black women.

Until the late 1980s, “political correctness” was used exclusively within the left, and almost always ironically as a critique of excessive orthodoxy. In fact, some of the first people to organise against “political correctness” were a group of feminists who called themselves the Lesbian Sex Mafia. In 1982, they held a “Speakout on Politically Incorrect Sex” at a theatre in New York’s East Village – a rally against fellow feminists who had condemned pornography and BDSM. Over 400 women attended, many of them wearing leather and collars, brandishing nipple clamps and *****s. The writer and activist Mirtha Quintanales summed up the mood when she told the audience, “We need to have dialogues about S&M issues, not about what is ‘politically correct, politically incorrect’.”

By the end of the 1980s, Jeff Chang, the journalist and hip-hop critic, who has written extensively on race and social justice, recalls that the activists he knew then in the Bay Area used the phrase “in a jokey way – a way for one sectarian to dismiss another sectarian’s line”.

But soon enough, the term was rebranded by the right, who turned its meaning inside out. All of a sudden, instead of being a phrase that leftists used to check dogmatic tendencies within their movement, “political correctness” became a talking point for neoconservatives. They said that PC constituted a leftwing political programme that was seizing control of American universities and cultural institutions – and they were determined to stop it.

The right had been waging a campaign against liberal academics for more than a decade. Starting in the mid-1970s, a handful of conservative donors had funded the creation of dozens of new thinktanks and “training institutes” offering programmes in everything from “leadership” to broadcast journalism to direct-mail fundraising. They had endowed fellowships for conservative graduate students, postdoctoral positions and professorships at prestigious universities. Their stated goal was to challenge what they saw as the dominance of liberalism and attack left-leaning tendencies within the academy.

Starting in the late 1980s, this well-funded conservative movement entered the mainstream with a series of improbable bestsellers that took aim at American higher education. The first, by the University of Chicago philosophy professor Allan Bloom, came out in 1987. For hundreds of pages, The Closing of the American Mind argued that colleges were embracing a shallow “cultural relativism” and abandoning long-established disciplines and standards in an attempt to appear liberal and to pander to their students. It sold more than 500,000 copies and inspired numerous imitations.

In April 1990, Roger Kimball, an editor at the conservative journal, The New Criterion, published Tenured Radicals: How Politics Has Corrupted our Higher Education. Like Bloom, Kimball argued that an “assault on the canon” was taking place and that a “politics of victimhood” had paralysed universities. As evidence, he cited the existence of departments such as African American studies and women’s studies. He scornfully quoted the titles of papers he had heard at academic conferences, such as “Jane Austen and the *********ing Girl” or “The Lesbian Phallus: Does Heterosexuality Exist?”

In June 1991, the young Dinesh D’Souza followed Bloom and Kimball with Illiberal Education: the Politics of Race and Sex on Campus. Whereas Bloom had bemoaned the rise of relativism and Kimball had attacked what he called “liberal fascism”, and what he considered frivolous lines of scholarly inquiry, D’Souza argued that admissions policies that took race into consideration were producing a “new segregation on campus” and “an attack on academic standards”. The Atlantic printed a 12,000 word excerpt as its June cover story. To coincide with the release, Forbes ran another article by D’Souza with the title: “Visigoths in Tweed.”

These books did not emphasise the phrase “political correctness”, and only D’Souza used the phrase directly. But all three came to be regularly cited in the flood of anti-PC articles that appeared in venues such as the New York Times and Newsweek. When they did, the authors were cited as neutral authorities. Countless articles uncritically repeated their arguments.

In some respects, these books and articles were responding to genuine changes taking place within academia. It is true that scholars had become increasingly sceptical about whether it was possible to talk about timeless, universal truths that lay beyond language and representation. European theorists who became influential in US humanities departments during the 1970s and 1980s argued that individual experience was shaped by systems of which the individual might not be aware – and particularly by language. Michel Foucault, for instance, argued that all knowledge expressed historically specific forms of power. Jacques Derrida, a frequent target of conservative critics, practised what he called “deconstruction”, rereading the classics of philosophy in order to show that even the most seemingly innocent and straightforward categories were riven with internal contradictions. The value of ideals such as “humanity” or “liberty” could not be taken for granted.

It was also true that many universities were creating new “studies departments”, which interrogated the experiences, and emphasised the cultural contributions of groups that had previously been excluded from the academy and from the canon: queer people, people of colour and women. This was not so strange. These departments reflected new social realities. The demographics of college students were changing, because the demographics of the United States were changing. By 1990, only two-thirds of Americans under 18 were white. In California, the freshman classes at many public universities were “majority minority”, or more than 50% non-white. Changes to undergraduate curriculums reflected changes in the student population.

...

Read the rest at https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/30/political-correctness-how-the-right-invented-phantom-enemy-donald-trump

I wouldn't go as far as to call PC a "phantom enemy", but in terms of how it was exaggerated and turned into a boogeyman over the past 30 years, I think the article's on point.
 
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But you agree with the words DeadPresident used more or les saying racism will continue to exist as long as racism exists?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.mic....e-murder-wasn-t-a-tragedy-it-was-a-hate-crime

I'll say this..when someone says that blacks are AS racist or MORE racist or the tables have turned or something along those lines...then I look at american history to get an idea of what actual racism looks like in action.

And I see a record of laws and systems and violence and terror unchecked and unpunished. I see a record of all those issues MLK listed in his letter then think have black people done any of that? Are black people doing that today?

but using your example...

one__1.jpg


this perfectly illustrates my point. going by history when have black people or minorities killed whites and not been punished for it? You can't bring up a stat that says blacks are the most jalied group in the country then turn around and act as if blacks are getting away with crimes or getting over somehow.

Now look at the history of whites who have been punished and jailed for killing blacks or minorities. In fact blacks have been jail and lynched on the RUMOR of harming a white person. Whole parts of towns have been burned down base on mere suspicion of violence by blacks on whites these are historical FACTS.

So when you see a threat like the one you posted there is NO record of blacks or minoritues rising up as a group and hunting down white people. And while I agree that whoever scribbled that should be arrested and its wrong to post a threat like that period...theres no history behind that threat that makes white people fearful that could really happen.

On the other hand
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e-st-louis-ill-1917.jpg


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when blacks see signs and threats against black people there is a historical reason to get upset and take it seriously.
 
While no groups rising up, there have been individuals such as that murder case I stated. Hell in July there was even a notable case of a sniper aiming to kill all "white" cops - their individual moral character didn't matter, didn't matter if they were racist or not (I'm not saying some people deserve to die), it only mattered that they were white. That was a hate crime against white people, not cops - if it was cops it would have been all cops, it was white cops indiscriminate of their character and based solely on the color of their skin. If that scenario was reversed (a white man aiming to kill all black cops) you'd say it was a racial hate crime as well. Also that sniper? He DID kill. So, yes, there is a history of white people being killed because of their race.

I don't think people should get hunted down and arrested for tagging unless it's out right vandalism, as much as I disagree with it. That was to show that those beliefs were around following the election as well in addition to the fact that minorities have killed white people over race. Just look at that murder case I mentioned, and the sniper, go online - you'll find more. As often? No. But it does happen. And as someone in an INTERRACIAL family, thus I can actually experience both sides rather than just one - it felt the exact same: as a hispanic I was just as afraid of what that Hispanic woman might do as I was what the 'build the wall' drones wanted to do to me.

Ask Obama - he'll tell you the same exact thing I am: the crazy white person with a gun looking to kill minorities is just as scary as the crazy minority with a gun looking to kill white people when you're with your family (stating Obama here, interracial too - that scenario you're in deep **** any way it's spun) and that person has their rifle loaded. This is something those not in interracial will probably have difficult time seeing, while for many one way that could go means safety, for the interracial families there is no safety - they are equally as scary (he either kills me or butchers my family).

White people do have a right to speak up about it rather than fear stating it out of how people will react. This fear of stating it is probably what's making white people so bitter about it (I'm not white, but I have observed this and I'm guessing). But, just because it happens a lot less doesn't make it not serious. Murder over race is still murder over race.

Frankly, I'm also still confused on why you keep going to who has it worse since absolutely no one has been arguing that 'point' with you - to my knowledge everyone agrees with you on that; so you've been arguing that 'point' to no one - it's like telling people you're arguing the point that the earth is round, everyone knows that.

What people are saying is that hate crimes and racism happen to everyone; and yes that sniper and that murder were racial hate crimes - flip them, you'll see that they were as well. So that sign? There IS a factual history of crazy people with guns following through on killing whites to starting spree shootings aiming for whites for the color of their skin alone - that's the world we live in, there is no telling who writes that and if they will follow through or not (others have).
 
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