Discussion: Racism - Part 2

[KRYPTON INC.]

Yeah... There is not a single legitimate reason from a rational or emotional position that African-American citizens might be resentful of black celebrities making a choice to break bread with the man whose political career literally started with "investigating" wheter the first POTUS of African descent was actually a natural born citizen and did so for years despite all the obvious evidence that was a singularly dumb thing to inject into our national politics. I mean why would black people have issues with meeting with the man that said he doesn't want blacks but jewish citizens to handle his money? Why would African-Americans possibly object to a man whose family wealth is built on the housing policies his father enacted and was singled out for prosecution because they were considered racist? I mean... There is no reasonable justification for thinking that it's possible these things might make black Americans look askance at black celebs meeting with Trump.

 

[TheCommissioner]

I'm sure if he only met with unknown polticians the critique would be "nobody knows who they are, how can we recognize them!?".

so are you intimating that people "need" to see celebrities meeting with politicians for it to mean something to them?

Yeah... There is not a single legitimate reason from a rational or emotional position that African-American citizens might be resentful of black celebrities making a choice to break bread with the man whose political career literally started with "investigating" wheter the first POTUS of African descent was actually a natural born citizen and did so for years despite all the obvious evidence that was a singularly dumb thing to inject into our national politics. I mean why would black people have issues with meeting with the man that said he doesn't want blacks but jewish citizens to handle his money? Why would African-Americans possibly object to a man whose family wealth is built on the housing policies his father enacted and was singled out for prosecution because they were considered racist? I mean... There is no reasonable justification for thinking that it's possible these things might make black Americans look askance at black celebs meeting with Trump.

pretty much this

and its the narrative where we (minorities) have to be "the bigger person" and look past that

and Ill tell you, Im damn tired of that

I have given people the benefit of the doubt for far too long

you want my support? EARN IT

 

[DeadPresident]

Except the logic underpinning it, why must all black people "represent the group" like they're incapable of being individuals?

Take Trump out of the equation and look at disowned individuals like Larry Elder or Thomas Sowell, they're "out of the group" simply for daring to not follow tropes about black experience or opinion - particularly related to the Democrats' political ideology.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I'm not saying conservatives i.e. Elders and the like should have to tow a party line but to act as though others feelings on black celebs is itself out of line or that it's origins are mysterious feels obtuse. The birther issue ALONE makes sense as an understandable cause of the resentment many black people in the country have against Kanye, Harvey ect.

 

[DeadPresident]

I'm not saying conservatives i.e. Elders and the like should have to tow a party line but to act as though others feelings on black celebs is itself out of line or that it's origins are mysterious feels obtuse. The birther issue ALONE makes sense as an understandable cause of the resentment many black people in the country have against Kanye, Harvey ect.

Sure, in regard to Trump I agree for the most part, since he's said blatantly racist and egregious things in the past. It just seems egotistical to me that people go "How date this rich, successful person who shares a demographic with me not react to a situation how I would?", I understand the reaction but it just seems a little presumptuous to me.

Elders and Sowell are disowned though because they're clearly thought of as less black than they "should be".

 

[TheCommissioner]

Sure, in regard to Trump I agree for the most part, since he's said blatantly racist and egregious things in the past. It just seems egotistical to me that people go "How date this rich, successful person who shares a demographic with me not react to a situation how I would?", I understand the reaction but it just seems a little presumptuous to me.

Elders and Sowell are disowned though because they're clearly thought of as less black than they "should be".

or not understanding the stance of the community they claimed to represent

thats where a lot of these issues come up, individuals like Elder who claim to have the best interests of the black community as their priority but then act in complete opposition to that

if someone like Keith Ellison or Tammy Duckworth met with Trump, that wouldn't bother me because I know where they both stand, and as sitting politicians, meeting with the PEEOTUS is part of their job

 

[DeadPresident]

or not understanding the stance of the community they claimed to represent

thats where a lot of these issues come up, individuals like Elder who claim to have the best interests of the black community as their priority but then act in complete opposition to that

if someone like Keith Ellison or Tammy Duckworth met with Trump, that wouldn't bother me because I know where they both stand, and as sitting politicians, meeting with the PEEOTUS is part of their job

You're really out of your depth in most conversations but I'm going to try this anyways; How do you perceive someone like Elder's actions to be "in complete opposition" to the interests of the black community? What exactly are the "interests of the black community"? Since every black American is clearly the same for that premise to work.

 

[TheCommissioner]

You're really out of your depth in most conversations but I'm going to try this anyways; How do you perceive someone like Elder's actions to be "in complete opposition" to the interests of the black community? What exactly are the "interests of the black community"? Since every black American is clearly the same for that premise to work.

he's called himself a libertarian when it suits him, then called himself a Republican, that back to libertarian, then back to Republican

his tone deaf views on things like school choice are a big issue with me, they are actually very similar to Betsy Devos' views - and she just got roasted in confirmation hearings

When you decided to title a book "Stupid Black Men", you don't garner a lot of credence or goodwill with people

im sure there are minorities that support him (just like there are minorities that support Trump), but by and large he is not well regarded

is that deep enough for your condescending self?

 

[Schlosser85]

I'd imagine a lot of African-Americans look at black celebrities cozying up to Trump the same way I look at an openly gay man like Peter Thiel ingratiating himself to an administration that includes Mike Pence and various other homophobes.

Like it must be nice to be personally privileged enough to be that "special gay" who gets to be buddies with the people who would be completely against your rights if you weren't part of their billionaire "club". Or to just be narcissistic enough to not care about the rights of anybody except yourself.

I look at it kind of like the kapos who lined up to wear uniforms and be good little messenger boys for the Nazis and thought it made them special.

 

[DeadPresident]

I'd imagine a lot of African-Americans look at black celebrities cozying up to Trump the same way I look at an openly gay man like Peter Thiel ingratiating himself to an administration that includes Mike Pence and various other homophobes.

Like it must be nice to be personally privileged enough to be that "special gay" who gets to be buddies with the people who would be completely against your rights if you weren't part of their billionaire "club". Or to just be narcissistic enough to not care about the rights of anybody except yourself.

I look at it kind of like the kapos who lined up to wear uniforms and be good little messenger boys for the Nazis and thought it made them special.

That's how classism works. Once someone reaches a certain level of wealth their material or social circumstance can't really be impacted.

That's why I think the primary reason people like Kanye West and Harvey getting dismissed is because they move in an arena where their demographics don't matter anymore.

he's called himself a libertarian when it suits him, then called himself a Republican, that back to libertarian, then back to Republican

So basically you don't like that he changes his mind? I'll need more context to see if this is valid in any way, you could just be complaining for the sake of it.

his tone deaf views on things like school choice are a big issue with me, they are actually very similar to Betsy Devos' views - and she just got roasted in confirmation hearings

I don't know much about the issue behind school choice, why is his view problematic?

When you decided to title a book "Stupid Black Men", you don't garner a lot of credence or goodwill with people

This one I'd have to agree with.

im sure there are minorities that support him (just like there are minorities that support Trump), but by and large he is not well regarded

is that deep enough for your condescending self?

Not exactly, only two of the issue you brought up seem like legitimate grievances or issues.

 

[TheCommissioner]

'school choice' as Elder and Devos see it doesn't address the actual problem with a number of public schools

it says "if you don't like this school, we can put your child in a private school and that should be fine" when it really isn't

its not "lets take a look at public schools and fix what's wrong to make all of our schools great" its "lets move kids out of public schools and into private (for profit) education"

 

[DeadPresident]

'school choice' as Elder and Devos see it doesn't address the actual problem with a number of public schools

it says "if you don't like this school, we can put your child in a private school and that should be fine" when it really isn't

its not "lets take a look at public schools and fix what's wrong to make all of our schools great" its "lets move kids out of public schools and into private (for profit) education"

Sure, if it's as simple in principle as you're describing then I agree. A baseline of service provision and coverage for education and healthcare should be mandatory in a country with the USA's resources. That said, I would say one aspect of capitalism and for-profit institutions that is positive is that competition generally encourages lower prices and consistent quality of services. Obviously, capitalism has developed to the point where cronyism at the top results in the opposite effect.

Neglecting public schools and telling people to put their kids into (likely overpriced) private schools accomplishes nothing.

 

[regwec]

A successful free market is dependent on respect for the rule of law and the enforcement of well judged regulatory frameworks. Think of the the typical listed company: most of its beneficial owners (by volume) will have little interest or regard in the way that the company is run, unless there is a negative impact on the value of their equity. In the early years of limited companies as legal entities, shareholders tended to be the equivalent of today's venture capitalists, taking an avid interest in the running of the company and the behaviour of its officers.

Anyway, racism is bad.

 

[hellified]

Yeah... There is not a single legitimate reason from a rational or emotional position that African-American citizens might be resentful of black celebrities making a choice to break bread with the man whose political career literally started with "investigating" wheter the first POTUS of African descent was actually a natural born citizen and did so for years despite all the obvious evidence that was a singularly dumb thing to inject into our national politics. I mean why would black people have issues with meeting with the man that said he doesn't want blacks but jewish citizens to handle his money? Why would African-Americans possibly object to a man whose family wealth is built on the housing policies his father enacted and was singled out for prosecution because they were considered racist? I mean... There is no reasonable justification for thinking that it's possible these things might make black Americans look askance at black celebs meeting with Trump.

not only that its not like trump is looking for the best and brightest in the fields of positions he wants to fill.

he appointed ben carson a brain surgeon who himself said he wasn't qualified to do the job...to help that guy trump calls a stand up comedian turned "self help" guru/game show host.

then he talks to a certified nutso rapper and a decades retired football player in jim brown, he would have called OJ but he's otherwise detained...literally.

this isn't serious at all. this is a joke..

I don't see him calling taylor swift for secretary of agriculture or joe nameth to head up the dept of the interior..

if he did that white people would be aghast and up in arms...you would collectively see white people make this face

but this is his outreach to blacks and white people are all "I don't understand what the problem is?"

 

[regwec]

not only that its not like trump is looking for the best and brightest in the fields of positions he wants to fill.

he appointed ben carson a brain surgeon who himself said he wasn't qualified to do the job...to help that guy trump calls a stand up comedian turned "self help" guru/game show host.

then he talks to a certified nutso rapper and a decades retired football player in jim brown, he would have called OJ but he's otherwise detained...literally.

this isn't serious at all. this is a joke..

I don't see him calling taylor swift for secretary of agriculture or joe nameth to head up the dept of the interior..

if he did that white people would be aghast and up in arms...you would collectively see white people make this face

but this is his outreach to blacks and white people are all "I don't understand what the problem is?"

Yay, here we go again.

 

[Kelly]

I'd imagine a lot of African-Americans look at black celebrities cozying up to Trump the same way I look at an openly gay man like Peter Thiel ingratiating himself to an administration that includes Mike Pence and various other homophobes.

Like it must be nice to be personally privileged enough to be that "special gay" who gets to be buddies with the people who would be completely against your rights if you weren't part of their billionaire "club". Or to just be narcissistic enough to not care about the rights of anybody except yourself.

I look at it kind of like the kapos who lined up to wear uniforms and be good little messenger boys for the Nazis and thought it made them special.

Kind of like how I look at educated women who somehow thought it was a smart, educated thing to do, ya know vote for Trump and all..... I honestly have had to totally stay away from Political talk with family and friends because I truly have no clue how or why they thought it was the "right thing to do". No clue whatsoever....

 

[hellified]

Yay, here we go again.

I should have said white people like dead president..is that better

 

[DeadPresident]

I should have said white people like dead president..is that better

I have to admit, that genuinely got a laugh out of me

 

[hellified]

 

[hellified]

Secret Service agrees to pay $24 million in decades-old race-bias case brought by black agents

The race bias case centered on black agents who repeatedly bid for promotions from 1995 to 2005 and were turned down in favor of whites. Often the white agents chosen had less experience and lower performance ratings, according to the plaintiffs. Ray Moore, the lead plaintiff, had been a member of President Bill Clinton’s detail and had bid 200 times for promotion over the years without success. Moore had trained several of the white agents who leapfrogged him.

The suit was first filed when Clinton was president. But two presidents and four directors had passed the job of resolving the messy legal fight on to their successors.

Some of the evidence discovered in the course of the case portrayed the Secret Service of the 1990s and 2000s as a workplace that tolerated racist jokes and slurs. White supervisors engaged in racist banter — and black agents were warned not to complain about it or they could hurt their careers, according to the plaintiffs.

Black agents said they heard bosses use the n-word word to describe black people, including foreign leaders the Secret Service was supposed to be protecting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3375f271c9c_story.html?utm_term=.18747b11669d

this isn't 100 years ago..this is well within everyone here's lifetime. So whats the solution to these attitudes, practices and culture??

is anyone else going to chime in on the REAL racism that was experienced here or are we just going to keep going back and forth on hypotheticals?

 

[TheCommissioner]

is anyone else going to chime in on the REAL racism that was experienced here or are we just going to keep going back and forth on hypotheticals?

we were discussing this on the previous page

 

[TheCommissioner]

and a woman in Georgia shot an unarmed 15 year old

citing "Im not evil, blacks are bad" and are responsible for 99.9 % of crime

 

[regwec]

That seems rather more pertinent to a discussion about mental illness, I think.

 

[TheCommissioner]

a sprinkle of this, a sprinkle of that

 

[hellified]

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