Discussion: Racism - Part 3

[Tacit Ronin]

Wanna bet two bucks that Primus hails from a homogenous, or nearly homogenous country with no history of racial oppression. Which gives him the ammunition and arrogance to say that they have no racial problems.

 

[Wylie Times]

Wanna bet two bucks that Primus hails from a homogenous, or nearly homogenous country with no history of racial oppression. Which gives him the ammunition and arrogance to say that they have no racial problems.

Or because he's part of the privileged class and is able to outright ignore all the problems other face and the discussions they have about race, gender, and religion. I've lost track of the number of times posters outside of the U.S. have tried to claim racism is only an issue in the U.S. because we perpetuate it only to find out later that the country they hail from is also dealing with racism and the people have organized to fight against it.

Even in the U.S. throughout history white American's have rarely seen racism or racial discrimination as problems. There's polling from the Civil Right era that showed white Americans thought Black American had equal rights in the United states and discrimination wasn't an issue.

recent polls have shown that a growing segment of white Americans feel that white people are the primary targets of racism (hence the uptick in white supremacist activity).

 

[Docker2.0]

Or because he's part of the privileged class and is able to outright ignore all the problems other face and the discussions they have about race, gender, and religion. I've lost track of the number of times posters outside of the U.S. have tried to claim racism is only an issue in the U.S. because we perpetuate it only to find out later that the country they hail from is also dealing with racism and the people have organized to fight against it.

Even in the U.S. throughout history white American's have rarely seen racism or racial discrimination as problems. There's polling from the Civil Right era that showed white Americans thought Black American had equal rights in the United states and discrimination wasn't an issue.

recent polls have shown that a growing segment of white Americans feel that white people are the primary targets of racism (hence the uptick in white supremacist activity).

100% Truth!!!

 

[Orba]

Hehe

Turd Reich: San Francisco dog owners lay minefield of poo for rightwing rally

When a group of far-right activists come to San Francisco to hold a rally this Saturday, they will be met by peace activists offering them flowers to wear in their hair.

Also, dog ****. Lots and lots of dog ****.

Hundreds of San Franciscans plan to prepare Crissy Field, the picturesque beach in the shadow of the Golden Gate Bridge where rightwing protest group Patriot Prayer will gather, with a generous carpeting of excrement.

“I just had this image of alt-right people stomping around in the poop,” Tuffy Tuffington said of the epiphany he had while walking Bob and Chuck, his two Patterdale terriers, and trying to think of the best way to respond to rightwing extremists in the wake of Charlottesville. “It seemed like a little bit of civil disobedience where we didn’t have to engage with them face to face.”

Tuffington, a 45-year-old artist and designer, created a Facebook event page based on the concept, and the dog owners of San Francisco responded in droves. Many have declared their intention to stockpile their ****piles for days in advance, then deliver them in bags for the site. (The group is also planning to reconvene on Sunday to “clean up the mess and hug each other”.)

 

[Dr. Evil]

Hehe

Turd Reich: San Francisco dog owners lay minefield of poo for rightwing rally

It'll be hard for them to chant "sieg heil" when they smell dog excrement. I don't have a dog, so I don't know what that smells like, but it probably doesn't smell good.

 

[squeekness]

Hehe

Turd Reich: San Francisco dog owners lay minefield of poo for rightwing rally

Awesome!

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Trump is gonna repeal DACA.

 

[Hotwire]

So, I had a cousin make a comment on Facebook that Black Lives Matter protesters should, "be deported back to Zimbabwe and see if they like America then." I later quoted this with a screenshot and he got all butt hurt saying I'm taking it out of context. My question is, is there any context where a white guy can suggest deporting black people to an African country that they're probably not even from would NOT be racist?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Did you ask what the context was? I am curious how he spins that.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Why would an American be 'deported' to Zimbabwe?

 

[terry78]

As far as some are concerned even if you're born here you're from another country.

 

[Sithborg]

Trump is gonna repeal DACA.

ICE was already ignoring it.

 

[chamber-music]

Or because he's part of the privileged class and is able to outright ignore all the problems other face and the discussions they have about race, gender, and religion. I've lost track of the number of times posters outside of the U.S. have tried to claim racism is only an issue in the U.S. because we perpetuate it only to find out later that the country they hail from is also dealing with racism and the people have organized to fight against it.

Even in the U.S. throughout history white American's have rarely seen racism or racial discrimination as problems. There's polling from the Civil Right era that showed white Americans thought Black American had equal rights in the United states and discrimination wasn't an issue.

recent polls have shown that a growing segment of white Americans feel that white people are the primary targets of racism (hence the uptick in white supremacist activity).

Yep.

Prejudice is a all too common human trait. Even in less diverse countries there are still people that are prejudice against their fellow citizens based on social class, religion, sexual orientation, politics, gender, the region they were born in and so on.

Some people just don't pay attention to anything that they think doesn't effect them so think that the prejudice doesn't exist or create a problem in wider society.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I think at this point it is fair to label anyone who still supports Trump a white nationalist.

As if the birther stuff wasn't a huge red flag. Now he's defended Neo-Nazis and the Klan and used the power of the presidency to pardon a corrupt sheriff convicted of flagrant racial profiling and abusing minorities.

I don't know how people like Ben Carson and Gary Cohn sleep at night.

 

[Sithborg]

I think at this point it is fair to label anyone who still supports Trump a white nationalist.

As if the birther stuff wasn't a huge red flag. Now he's defended Neo-Nazis and the Klan and used the power of the presidency to pardon a corrupt sheriff convicted of flagrant racial profiling and abusing minorities.

I don't know how people like Ben Carson and Gary Cohn sleep at night.

They dream of sweet, sweet tax cuts.

And well, Carson is an idiot outside of brain surgery.

 

[hellified]

I think at this point it is fair to label anyone who still supports Trump a white nationalist.

As if the birther stuff wasn't a huge red flag. Now he's defended Neo-Nazis and the Klan and used the power of the presidency to pardon a corrupt sheriff convicted of flagrant racial profiling and abusing minorities.

I don't know how people like Ben Carson and Gary Cohn sleep at night.

cuz it was only latinos in the hot seat on this one..

When he was going after muslims they were silent

When he went after trans people they were silent

When he didn't condemn the kkk or nazis (who were chanting "jews will not replace us) immediately...cohn drafted a letter of resignation but didn't send it.

Now he lets a racist who profiled and harassed latinos off the hook with a presidential pardon and theyre silent.

 

[chamber-music]

I think at this point it is fair to label anyone who still supports Trump a white nationalist.

As if the birther stuff wasn't a huge red flag. Now he's defended Neo-Nazis and the Klan and used the power of the presidency to pardon a corrupt sheriff convicted of flagrant racial profiling and abusing minorities.

I don't know how people like Ben Carson and Gary Cohn sleep at night.

Jared Kushner and Ivanka are Jewish as well. I can't imagine they feel too happy about those Neo-Nazis shouting "Jews will not replace us" supporting Donald.

Many of Trump's supporters are conspiracy theory types and a lot of those conspiracy theories are based around anti-Semitic views that Jews control everything.

Even putting aside the clearly racist actions of Sheriff Joe Arpaio there are still a list of other deplorable things he is accused of that make pardoning him horrible.

Arpaio was also known for misusing funds, not investigate sex crimes (including those against children) and improper clearance of cases.

You must really hate/fear minorities to overlook the fact Arpaio was clearly awful and corrupt Sheriff.

 

[RockSP]

Can't post it due to language but there is video of one of the white nationalists at Charlottesville firing his gun into the crowd...and cops doing nothing at the time. Supposedly they couldn't hear the shot because of the crowd and music playing. He was (finally) arrested on 8/26/17.

 

[Dark Raven]

Someone please explain to me the significance of Confederates and the Confederate flag for racism. Not being familiar with American history apart from knowing the civil war was fought between the Unionists and the Confederates, why are the latter spoken of in the same breath as Neo Nazis and White Supremacists? I know they kept slaves but was it just them or other Americans from the North?

And why is their flag seemingly regarded in the same light these days as a Swastika?

Surely that can't always have been the case. In the Dukes of Hazard their Dodge Charger (the General Lee) had a Confederate flag on the hood. Was that considered a racist/ white supremacist show? And don't other Americans in the south ever have that flag as memorabilia? Is the flag banned these days?

 

[Sithborg]

The Civil War and the creation of the Confederacy was to protect slavery. There has been a lot of whitewashing of the history of the Civil War, mainly to continue to embrace its racism.

The flag, much like the large number of Confederate statues, faced a resurgence in order to remind blacks of "their proper place" disguised as "remembering their culture".

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Someone please explain to me the significance of Confederates and the Confederate flag for racism. Not being familiar with American history apart from knowing the civil war was fought between the Unionists and the Confederates, why are the latter spoken of in the same breath as Neo Nazis and White Supremacists? I know they kept slaves but was it just them or other Americans from the North?

And why is their flag seemingly regarded in the same light these days as a Swastika?

Surely that can't always have been the case. In the Dukes of Hazard their Dodge Charger (the General Lee) had a Confederate flag on the hood. Was that considered a racist/ white supremacist show? And don't other Americans in the south ever have that flag as memorabilia? Is the flag banned these days?

I... Really DR?

Really? I know it's not your history but it's pretty easy to sort out. The South seceded in VERY large part due to slavery. The justification of said slavery was expressed in the language and philosophy of American White Supremacy. The flag of the Confederacy, traitors to my nation I would add, was the flag of a political entity based upon slavery and racist ideology no matter how anyone tries to frame it these days. I refer you to here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

This speech by the Confederate Vice President contains this passage...


"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science."


Racism was and I would argue is deeply baked into the culture of the South of the U.S. Resentment against their loss after attempting to break away from the U.S. simmered long after the war and frankly, well past Reconstruction, through the early 20th Century, past the Civil Rights era and into the modern era. The saying "The South Will Rise Again" has at it's core an implicit threat against non-whites. It is no coincidence that White Power groups such as the Klan (I assume you've heard of them, but if not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan) are associated with the flag of the Confederacy, as they were formed during the reconstruction era. The culture of Jim Crow (again... If you aren't familiar with the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws ) was just an extension of the fallen Confederacy's philosophical outlook on what it thought America should be. Now... I grew up with the DUKES OF HAZZARD as well, but then... I'm a Hispanic from New York City. Now, imagine you grew up African-American in the South of the U.S. and the flag is everywhere. The flag of the political entity whose objectives in it's existence were to keep your ancestors in bondage and oppressed in perpetuity, meaning to that entity it would just be fine for you and your children and your children's children to be human chattel with no real rights? Is it starting to dawn on you the implications of the flag? If it supposedly represents "heritage, not hate" then one must look at said heritage and realize it is a heritage OF hate. The flag and the defense and celebration of it has implications and none of them are positive. Also... It's doesn't take a lot of digging to find any of this out.

No, officially the flag is not "banned" as the Nazi one is in Germany.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The Dukes of Hazzard is a good example of the results of the attempts to white wash what the Confederacy did, and what they were.

 

[Orba]

Someone please explain to me the significance of Confederates and the Confederate flag for racism. Not being familiar with American history apart from knowing the civil war was fought between the Unionists and the Confederates, why are the latter spoken of in the same breath as Neo Nazis and White Supremacists? I know they kept slaves but was it just them or other Americans from the North?

One thing you also need to remember is that the whole Confederacy thing was generally forgotten about until the civil rights movement. If you look at when the statues were put up it was decades after the war ended. When a chart was made of civil war statue erections each year it showed that there were spikes at times when there were pushes for civil rights. Back in the 30s a politician decided to get a Confederate flag for his office since he was from the south. He ended up having to have it specially made for him as no-one made them, no-one was interested in it, it would make a return in the 50s and 60s in response the the civil rights movement.

So while they try claim that the Confederacy is not about racism the movement to defend the history is deeply tied to racism.

 

[chamber-music]

Yep. Many of those statues went up in the 20th century. Some of them went up specifically at times when African Americans tried to push for civil rights.

Pastor Robert Wright Lee, descendant of the confederate general Robert E Lee has spoken out against racism and said it is time for statues of his ancestor to come down.

 

[Dark Raven]

I... Really DR?

Really? I know it's not your history but it's pretty easy to sort out. The South seceded in VERY large part due to slavery. The justification of said slavery was expressed in the language and philosophy of American White Supremacy. The flag of the Confederacy, traitors to my nation I would add, was the flag of a political entity based upon slavery and racist ideology no matter how anyone tries to frame it these days. I refer you to here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

This speech by the Confederate Vice President contains this passage...


"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science."


Racism was and I would argue is deeply baked into the culture of the South of the U.S. Resentment against their loss after attempting to break away from the U.S. simmered long after the war and frankly, well past Reconstruction, through the early 20th Century, past the Civil Rights era and into the modern era. The saying "The South Will Rise Again" has at it's core an implicit threat against non-whites. It is no coincidence that White Power groups such as the Klan (I assume you've heard of them, but if not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan) are associated with the flag of the Confederacy, as they were formed during the reconstruction era. The culture of Jim Crow (again... If you aren't familiar with the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws ) was just an extension of the fallen Confederacy's philosophical outlook on what it thought America should be. Now... I grew up with the DUKES OF HAZZARD as well, but then... I'm a Hispanic from New York City. Now, imagine you grew up African-American in the South of the U.S. and the flag is everywhere. The flag of the political entity whose objectives in it's existence were to keep your ancestors in bondage and oppressed in perpetuity, meaning to that entity it would just be fine for you and your children and your children's children to be human chattel with no real rights? Is it starting to dawn on you the implications of the flag? If it supposedly represents "heritage, not hate" then one must look at said heritage and realize it is a heritage OF hate. The flag and the defense and celebration of it has implications and none of them are positive. Also... It's doesn't take a lot of digging to find any of this out.

No, officially the flag is not "banned" as the Nazi one is in Germany.

There's no need for that attitude. I'm simply asking a question, having not studied history or being from the US. I knew slavery was involved (as I mentioned) but didn't know whether it was the cause of the secession or whether it was incidental to it and simply one of many factors, and whether the secession was mostly about the South wanting their independence from the other US states, much like how the UK is leaving the EU, or how Scotland wanted to be independent from the UK. Or even like the American War of Independence with the US wanting to be independent from Great Britain.

And while I could read around on Wikipedia, at that time of the night when it was late I was just wanting a simple answer from someone who would connect the dots instead of having to read through the whole history of the Civil War, the Confederacy, slave trading, White supremacy, the flags, the Dukes of Hazzard etc.

I do know about the KKK. I don't know about Jim Crow. I didn't know all these things were associated with the Confederate flag. I thought it was simply a flag for the south and didn't realise it has such negative connotations. Whenever I would watch the Dukes of Hazzard, I wouldn't think anything of the car other than it being an iconic design, much like the red and white Gran Torino from Starsky and Hutch.

The Dukes of Hazzard is a good example of the results of the attempts to white wash what the Confederacy did, and what they were.

Why was a movie of that made not that long ago? Surely you'd think that it might seem politically incorrect? It's not like it was just a historical depiction of something either, but the flag just being used in a fun way, almost like a car driving around in a cops-and-robbers car chase caper with a swastika for fun. But no-one would ever dream of driving around in a car with a swastika for fun. Is the confederate flag seen as more acceptable than the swastika?

I'm guessing that no-one would make a movie or series reboot now? But wouldn't the flag still have carried negative associations even back in the late 70s/ early 80s when the series was made, or even a few years ago when the film adaptation was made?

One thing you also need to remember is that the whole Confederacy thing was generally forgotten about until the civil rights movement. If you look at when the statues were put up it was decades after the war ended. When a chart was made of civil war statue erections each year it showed that there were spikes at times when there were pushes for civil rights. Back in the 30s a politician decided to get a Confederate flag for his office since he was from the south. He ended up having to have it specially made for him as no-one made them, no-one was interested in it, it would make a return in the 50s and 60s in response the the civil rights movement.

So while they try claim that the Confederacy is not about racism the movement to defend the history is deeply tied to racism.

They should've made those statues without those fully functional parts.