Discussion: Racism - Part 3

[Dark Raven]

Stuff regarding our own people being villainous *******s is still a touchy subject even among the most liberal of filmmkers. Nazis are like THE literal live action version of supervillains that everyone around the world has dealt with. KKK guys, sad to say there are probably people that have to deal with family members or associates that are part of these groups and makes it weird.

But it's not like Nazis had no family ties or other friends. People knew them before they became Nazis and even while they had joined. Their family members would've had to deal with them. Some were ordinary German boys or men. Not much different from the KKK. It's not like the KKK are more humanized than the Nazis.

In the Sound of Music, the character Rolfe sang one of the most beloved and romantic songs in the movie and musical. He was Liesl's boyfriend and a normal German boy. It was only later he became a Nazi towards the end of the story.

So I don't see why the KKK couldn't be used as movie super villains in the same way. As hellified mentioned, they're a terrorist organisation. They don't have to be limited to historical dramas or legal fiction. They can be used as outright enemies like the Nazis or Al Qaeda without any fear of offending them.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

This is taking an expected strange turn.

 

[Reek]

Can we do CATS, too? 'Memory' has been stuck in my head for days.

 

[chamber-music]

Studios and filmmakers generally don't want to make movies about the evil their own countrymen do.

Maybe YOU don't see them. Mississippi Burning? Ghosts of Mississippi? Twilight Zone The Movie? American History X? Bad Boys 2? A Time To Kill? Django Unchanined?

Wild Wild West. I've not seen The Free State of Jones but I hear it is about about a group of white Southerners who fought against the Confederacy.

But it's not like Nazis had no family ties or other friends. People knew them before they became Nazis and even while they had joined. Their family members would've had to deal with them. Some were ordinary German boys or men. Not much different from the KKK. It's not like the KKK are more humanized than the Nazis.

In the Sound of Music, the character Rolfe sang one of the most beloved and romantic songs in the movie and musical. He was Liesl's boyfriend and a normal German boy. It was only later he became a Nazi towards the end of the story.

So I don't see why the KKK couldn't be used as movie super villains in the same way. As hellified mentioned, they're a terrorist organisation. They don't have to be limited to historical dramas or legal fiction. They can be used as outright enemies like the Nazis or Al Qaeda without any fear of offending them.

The Sons of the Serpent are Marvel's version of the KKK.

I think with politics being so polarized in the U.S right now and people being so sensitive they probably wouldn't be used as villains in a film. They could be used on TV but the Watchdogs on Agent's Of Shield are already filling the bigoted terrorist group role.

 

[Dark Raven]

BTW, I mentioned about Dixie the other day and whether that, being so closely associated with the Confederates, is considered a racist song.

But what about if people hear the Blue Peter theme tune? Some of that sounds a bit similar to Dixie.

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If people heard that song playing on the TV, would it stir up feelings of anger and animosity?

For those of you who don't know, Blue Peter is a children's TV show on the BBC which has been running since 1958. The theme tune is actually called Barnacle Bill, but part of it does sound a bit reminiscent of Dixie (depending on the orchestration - there have been different versions over the years, some more retro than others).

On another related note, in a classic scene from the Clint Eastwood movie "The Outlaw Josey Wales", why is he asking Unionist soldiers if they're going to pull their pistols or whistle Dixie?

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Why would they be whistling that song if it's the song of the Confederates? Unless it was once considered just a general American folk song for everyone?

 

[Dark Raven]

Studios and filmmakers generally don't want to make movies about the evil their own countrymen do.


Wild Wild West. I've not seen The Free State of Jones but I hear it is about about a group of white Southerners who fought against the Confederacy.



The Sons of the Serpent are Marvel's version of the KKK.

I think with politics being so polarized in the U.S right now and people being so sensitive they probably wouldn't be used as villains in a film. They could be used on TV but the Watchdogs on Agent's Of Shield are already filling the bigoted terrorist group role.

I don't know too much about the Sons of the Serpent. I know in the Fantastic Four, Hate Monger wore a costume that was like a purple version of the KKK outfit, which revealed Adolf Hitler underneath.

Also, in the Tintin book "Cigars of the Pharoah", at the end of the story there is this cult with the sign of the pharoah, and they're all dressed like KKK members except in purple (like the Hate Monger).

 

[Uskok]

On another related note, in a classic scene from the Clint Eastwood movie "The Outlaw Josey Wales", why is he asking Unionist soldiers if they're going to pull their pistols or whistle Dixie?

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Why would they be whistling that song if it's the song of the Confederates? Unless it was once considered just a general American folk song for everyone?

Actually, he was just trying to see if they would try to kill him or cowardly attempt to pass themselves off as Southern sympathizers like some boatman did earlier in the film.

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[Dark Raven]

Ah that makes sense. Thanks. I haven't watched that movie for over 25 years so I didn't remember it. So that boatman sings Dixie when he's near Josie Wales, but then when he gets nearer to the Union soldiers he starts singing Battle Hymn of the Republic to try to blend in and pretend his allegiances lie with the North?

 

[Uskok]

Ah that makes sense. Thanks. I haven't watched that movie for over 25 years so I didn't remember it. So that boatman sings Dixie when he's near Josie Wales, but then when he gets nearer to the Union soldiers he starts singing Battle Hymn of the Republic to try to blend in and pretend his allegiances lie with the North?

Exactly.

 

[Orba]

Trump ally Joe Arpaio so ‘evil to the bone’ German viewers thought documentary was a hoax: filmmaker

The German filmmaker who produced a 2001 documentary about Maricopa County, AZ’s former sheriff Joe Arpaio said that the right-wing sheriff is “evil to the bone.” President Donald Trump’s controversial pardon of Arpaio is no surprise, she said, because he and Trump are “soul-mates” — strutting attention addicts with no remorse or empathy.

In an op-ed column for The Daily Beast, Marianne Schaefer Trench said that Arpaio preened for her crew’s cameras and that the entire enterprise made them “feel dirty” because they were only feeding Arpaio’s outsized ego.

When the documentary aired in Germany, viewers thought they were watching a comedy “mockumentary,” but then realized that what they were seeing was real.

Trench wrote that she had initially had difficulty getting funding for the documentary because no one believed that such flagrant and disgusting racist abuse was being allowed to take place in the United States.

 

[chamber-music]

The movie Bushwick has modern day confederates as the villains.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

Trump ally Joe Arpaio so ‘evil to the bone’ German viewers thought documentary was a hoax: filmmaker

Imagine being such an awful human being that Germans can't believe you're real.

 

[Dark Raven]

The movie Bushwick has modern day confederates as the villains.

I don't know that movie. Who is in it?

I could see a movie like First Blood being made with a black equivalent of John Rambo and all the villains being confederates or white supremacists in a small town.

And I guess I can see how documentaries can seem too far fetched to seem real. People probably would've thought that about a scenario like 9/11 before it happened.

When the Olympics was held in Atlanta, Georgia in 1996, the BBC had as its Olympics theme music a medley of Gone With the Wind and Dixie. They probably wouldn't have really thought anything of it at the time (and maybe it might not have been a sensitive song back then).

 

[chamber-music]

I don't know that movie. Who is in it?

Dave Bautista and Brittany Snow.
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Texas secedes from the United States and partners with other Southern states to form a militia and infiltrate northern cities launching an insurgency to force the POTUS to recognize the Southern states as an independent nation.

A the movie is a contemporary American Civil War 2.0

 

[Dark Raven]

Dave Bautista and Brittany Snow.
[YT]/37qXnkL3Ask[/YT]
Texas secedes from the United States and partners with other Southern states to form a militia and infiltrate northern cities launching an insurgency to force the POTUS to recognize the Southern states as an independent nation.

A the movie is a contemporary American Civil War 2.0

Thanks. I see the film has already been released. But when I look on Wikipedia there's no information about its box office or reception, even though it has a full plot summary. How did it do?

That would be weird if the US did split like that now with the South as an independent nation. What would they even call themselves?

Is this Dave Bautista's first lead role?

 

[terry78]

I don't even think it announced any release dates outside of L.A. or NYC. I ain't heard nothing much about it.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

The Crying Nazi hates that he's known as the Crying Nazi:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/crying-nazi-christopher-cantwell-says-hes-just-a-goddamn-human-being

 

[DeadPresident]

The cognitive dissonance necessary to behave like he did and then expect some semblance of humanity from other people beggars belief. "Why aren't people treating me like a human being!?" - Extremist that doesn't treat other identity groups as human beings

 

[ouroboros]

So, I had a cousin make a comment on Facebook that Black Lives Matter protesters should, "be deported back to Zimbabwe and see if they like America then." I later quoted this with a screenshot and he got all butt hurt saying I'm taking it out of context. My question is, is there any context where a white guy can suggest deporting black people to an African country that they're probably not even from would NOT be racist?

The only non-racist context would be if those being deported were not born in America. That seems to be the most frequent justification for deportation, whether those deported are criminals (like some of the old-timey Italian gangsters), political agitators, or undesirables for some other reason (like all the Indians kicked out of Uganda when Idi Amin took power).

 

[ouroboros]

I think at this point it is fair to label anyone who still supports Trump a white nationalist.

As if the birther stuff wasn't a huge red flag. Now he's defended Neo-Nazis and the Klan and used the power of the presidency to pardon a corrupt sheriff convicted of flagrant racial profiling and abusing minorities.

I don't know how people like Ben Carson and Gary Cohn sleep at night.

Though I don't dispute Trump's likely status as a racist, I'll bet you can't really cite a quote in which he unambiguously defends either Neo-Nazis or the Klan.

 

[hellified]

The only non-racist context would be if those being deported were not born in America. That seems to be the most frequent justification for deportation, whether those deported are criminals (like some of the old-timey Italian gangsters), political agitators, or undesirables for some other reason (like all the Indians kicked out of Uganda when Idi Amin took power).

thats not case in since BLM members are american citizens. so its racist and flagrantly so. The saying it then talking about context when called on it is just damage control

 

[ouroboros]

Someone please explain to me the significance of Confederates and the Confederate flag for racism. Not being familiar with American history apart from knowing the civil war was fought between the Unionists and the Confederates, why are the latter spoken of in the same breath as Neo Nazis and White Supremacists? I know they kept slaves but was it just them or other Americans from the North?

And why is their flag seemingly regarded in the same light these days as a Swastika?

Surely that can't always have been the case. In the Dukes of Hazard their Dodge Charger (the General Lee) had a Confederate flag on the hood. Was that considered a racist/ white supremacist show? And don't other Americans in the south ever have that flag as memorabilia? Is the flag banned these days?

They're spoken of in the same breath because (a) the actual white supremacist groups began using the "Stars and Bars" to associate themselves with the Southern Lost Cause, and (b) Alt-Left groups began targeting Neo-Confederates as synonymous with supremacists because the former were a much more public presence.

There are indeed those who think that the Dukes of Hazzard was a white supremacist show simply because it too used the Stars and Bars. This is a good example of "idiotology" (idiotic use of ideology), given that Hazzard was about as non-political as any TV show could be-- except in the minds of those who think any show featuring Caucasian characters is automatically opposed to the interests of "diversity."

 

[DeadPresident]

Though I don't dispute Trump's likely status as a racist, I'll bet you can't really cite a quote in which he unambiguously defends either Neo-Nazis or the Klan.

Unfortunately in incidents as morally polarized as this not unambiguously condemning them is far too close to condoning their actions. Sometimes defending something and just allowing it to happen, specifically when in a position of such inordinate power, are relatively the same thing. What's that phrase about maintaining moral neutrality in moments of crisis…?

 

[Sithborg]

The Crying Nazi hates that he's known as the Crying Nazi:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/crying-nazi-christopher-cantwell-says-hes-just-a-goddamn-human-being

He has come a long way.

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[Dark Raven]

They're spoken of in the same breath because (a) the actual white supremacist groups began using the "Stars and Bars" to associate themselves with the Southern Lost Cause, and (b) Alt-Left groups began targeting Neo-Confederates as synonymous with supremacists because the former were a much more public presence.

There are indeed those who think that the Dukes of Hazzard was a white supremacist show simply because it too used the Stars and Bars. This is a good example of "idiotology" (idiotic use of ideology), given that Hazzard was about as non-political as any TV show could be-- except in the minds of those who think any show featuring Caucasian characters is automatically opposed to the interests of "diversity."

What is "Stars and Bars"?