Discussion: Racism

[Malice]

I am going to say this now, lets keep this civil, or the hammer of Malice will reign down with little or no mercy here.

Here are my thoughts.

Is the US Racist?
Depends, I think it depends on the age of the person. I think the younger the crowd, the less racist you get because of experience. I am 33, I grew up with blacks/whites/latinos/asians, you name it. It never dawned on my honestly growing up, that there was a "difference."

I never experienced segregation, the riots of the 60's and the things of that nature. Those that experienced those turbulant times, may have a different perspective. Some may be like me, and dont care about race, but some, frankly put, are stuck in their old ways. Most likely they wont change.

Is Racism affecting the primaries?
I would have to say YES. Like explained before, some people will not look past it. I personally like Obama, I would not vote for him because of policies...same as Hillary...

Has Obama, because he is Black been given a pass for more the Primary?
Personally, I feel he was treated quite differently than the other candidates in the beginning. Since the US has never seen a black candidate before that had ANY chance of getting a nomination the press were a little confused on how to treat him.

I think now, especially since he is winning, the press is really realizing, um, they dont have to treat him differently, as we have seen by recent events.

Well, those are my thoughts.
Controvercial or not, they are my thoughts on what I see.

 

[The Senator]

Norman, equality has been reached? I think that's an exaggeration right there. There was a recent study that found 50% of police stops in New York were done to black people, yet they only make up 25% of the population. Good, hardworking black people have dealt with the "driving while black" profiling for years and it still goes on today. There's nothing equal in that treatment.

Statistics like those are interesting. They don't say that these folks were arrested due to racist means; it says they were arrested for committing a crime. These statistics cover all the police stops in that state-- did it ever strike you that the reason why 50% of the suspects were black is simply because those offenders were black? I'm sure some of those stops were racially motivated, but isn't it possible that it just ended up being that more black folks were stopped because more black folks committed the crime?

 

[BlackLantern]

29 years as a black man...lived in 5 different states and only pulled over once because I was legitimately speeding....91 in a 55

 

[Marx]

29 years as a black man...lived in 5 different states and only pulled over once because I was legitimately speeding....91 in a 55

91 in a 55??? Geez man, I hope there was a good reason for speeds of that kind!

 

[BlackLantern]

91 in a 55??? Geez man, I hope there was a good reason for speeds of that kind!

I was very late for a work function....and it was a Statie too....

 

[BlackestNight]

Statistics like those are interesting. They don't say that these folks were arrested due to racist means; it says they were arrested for committing a crime. These statistics cover all the police stops in that state-- did it ever strike you that the reason why 50% of the suspects were black is simply because those offenders were black? I'm sure some of those stops were racially motivated, but isn't it possible that it just ended up being that more black folks were stopped because more black folks committed the crime?

29 years as a black man...lived in 5 different states and only pulled over once because I was legitimately speeding....91 in a 55

I used to think exactly like you BlackLantern but I've actually seen little bit if racism in action and to be quite honest it was quite jarring. I have seen several cases happen to my friends and fewer cases happened to me directly.

I will try to keep this short but here is one case it’s not that bad but still kind of made me angry when it took place.

It was our senior year in high school and we had just came back from our last marching band competition. So me and my 7 friend decide to hang out and go get some thing to eat a t the local Wendy’s. My group of friends consisted of me (Black), three other black guys, a white guy, a white girl and a half white half Asian guy. So we went to a drive through and decide to sit in the parking lot to eat. Half way through our food the half Asian friend turns on his CD player and starts playing some music. When we where about half way through our food a cop shows up. Now in my mind and the rest of everyone else mind was the cop showed up to bust the 2 white kids. So we turn to them and laugh because they purposely double park so that the back of there mini van was facing us and they through there food all over ground (Double parking and Littering). So the cop shows up gets up in the face of one of our black friends lets call him Benny. Benny happened to be the only one of us wearing a (Dew rag). So the cop gets in is face screaming at him telling him to turn the music down. Then all of a sudden out of know where he start threading him with fines and telling him that if he wanted to he could drag is sorry a$$ to jail. My friend Benny keeps his head down the whole time. After the Tirade the cop turns around to leave and sees our 2 white friends. Now remember there (double parked) and have litter all around the back of there van. He look at them for lest than 2 secs and just walks away with out saying a word to them.

Now not only did the cop target the Black guy with the due rag on, who was threatened to be fined and or arrested for a noise pollution that he had nothing to do with; but you had 2 white kids that double parked and littered and the cop completely ignored.

What makes me so angry is that we where freaking Band geeks and the cop was treating him like he was a Thug or something.

 

[ForestAflame]

I used to think exactly like you BlackLantern but I've actually seen little bit if racism in action and to be quite honest it was quite jarring. I have seen several cases happen to my friends and fewer cases happened to me directly.

I will try to keep this short but here is one case it’s not that bad but still kind of made me angry when it took place.

It was our senior year in high school and we had just came back from our last marching band competition. So me and my 7 friend decide to hang out and go get some thing to eat a t the local Wendy’s. My group of friends consisted of me (Black), three other black guys, a white guy, a white girl and a half white half Asian guy. So we went to a drive through and decide to sit in the parking lot to eat. Half way through our food the half Asian friend turns on his CD player and starts playing some music. When we where about half way through our food a cop shows up. Now in my mind and the rest of everyone else mind was the cop showed up to bust the 2 white kids. So we turn to them and laugh because they purposely double park so that the back of there mini van was facing us and they through there food all over ground (Double parking and Littering). So the cop shows up gets up in the face of one of our black friends lets call him Benny. Benny happened to be the only one of us wearing a (Dew rag). So the cop gets in is face screaming at him telling him to turn the music down. Then all of a sudden out of know where he start threading him with fines and telling him that if he wanted to he could drag is sorry a$$ to jail. My friend Benny keeps his head down the whole time. After the Tirade the cop turns around to leave and sees our 2 white friends. Now remember there (double parked) and have litter all around the back of there van. He look at them for lest than 2 secs and just walks away with out saying a word to them.

Now not only did the cop target the Black guy with the due rag on, who was threatened to be fined and or arrested for a noise pollution that he had nothing to do with; but you had 2 white kids that double parked and littered and the cop completely ignored.

What makes me so angry is that we where freaking Band geeks and the cop was treating him like he was a Thug or something.

That's minor. My cousin was recently told to get out of a restaurant, and if he didn't, the white customers threatened to make "alligator bait" out of him.

 

[Addendum]

That's minor. My cousin was recently told to get out of a restaurant, and if he didn't, the white customers threatened to make "alligator bait" out of him.

Did they say that before or after they ****ed their sisters

 

[BlackLantern]

That's minor. My cousin was recently told to get out of a restaurant, and if he didn't, the white customers threatened to make "alligator bait" out of him.

That is some BS right there....but those folk like their "Right to refuse service" rule.....and its sheep they ****, not their sisters....

 

[Addendum]

The sheep****ers are over in Wales.

 

[BlackLantern]

The sheep****ers are over in Wales.

Funny but unrelated story....our company just opened a UK office and one of their managers was here for a meeting....We were talking and I made a joke about the south and ******* sheep and he says "Oh we have those too...the Welsh"

 

[Varient]

White music listeners , mature ones, don't identify themselves by the lyrics in those type of music. They don't think Johnny Cash epitomizes who they are suppose to be,....he provides an escapist, fantasy entertainment....like watching an action movie.

Rap entertainment is viewed same way by suburban whites. Most rap musc listeners are white..........but by many in urban black youths as an identity, as a role model, or something to emulate. While whites have all these role models.....young blacks see gangster rap music as something to emulate......when that is your only source of inspiration and you don't have good parents to guide you...(out of marriage births for blacks skyrocketing)....that can be a serious problem.

I think Thomas Sowell and many conservatives have pronounced that family values, strengthening the family unit is paramount to producing an environment where self-respect, love, and educated are nurtured. Without that, and you see decadent crap being pummelled as your culture...then its a problem.

The statements above are racist.

In them you say that even though whites listen to more rap,.. it's only entertainment,.. but for blacks its a way of life or something to emulate. The concept that blacks don't have good role models (like whites) means that they will/can only mean they will follow the worst as outlined by the worst of rap.

Speaking only for my family I can say that NONE of us has taken, used, or emulated any of the negative aspects of Rap. Looking at the black families I'm aware of I don't see it happening to them either.

What I do see most often are white folk (once again) telling me what kind of people we are, what kind of things we do, what motivates us and why WE are messed up.

ALL WITH THE ATTITUDE THAT WE PUT US IN OUR CURRENT POSITION.

Tsk

 

[Addendum]

Saying that all black youths want to emulate rap artists is like saying all white youths want to emulate black metal artists

 

[Varient]

So a pastor of a church can't be evil? Thats funny.

The statements made by Wright are every bit as ridiculous and wrong as the statements made by KKK grandwizards. Both preach and control based on hate and dividing the country along racial lines.

It would be like you comparing some white person (who just happened to want to try to eliminate a religious group) to Hitler

We can go there if you like.
Wrights ministry has never preached the violence,.. or followed thru like the KKK has.
Wrights Ministry was not or has never been based on discrimination based on difference.
In the History of Wrights ministry,.. no whites were chased, beat, shot, killed, hung, or segregated because of their color.

Unlike the KKK,.... even though it is a predominatly black organization,.. WHITES are accepted to this church.

Having said all that,... I read of "other" canidates who's religious dealings were slimier in my view that don't get a second look.


V.

 

[Varient]

29 years as a black man...lived in 5 different states and only pulled over once because I was legitimately speeding....91 in a 55

Sigh.

So the numbers and personal experiences of thousands of others are invalidated because your happy behind slid through the cracks?

MEH.

 

[StorminNorman]

We can go there if you like.
Wrights ministry has never preached the violence,.. or followed thru like the KKK has.
Wrights Ministry was not or has never been based on discrimination based on difference.
In the History of Wrights ministry,.. no whites were chased, beat, shot, killed, hung, or segregated because of their color.

Unlike the KKK,.... even though it is a predominatly black organization,.. WHITES are accepted to this church.

Having said all that,... I read of "other" canidates who's religious dealings were slimier in my view that don't get a second look.


V.

Both Black Separation Theology and White Supremacy promote and encourage racial segregation and preach hate of another race. The KKK used violence, yes - but I am focusing purely on the philosophical teachings of both. They are both similar in the fact that they try nothing but divide America by racial lines. I have just a much a problem with Obama going to a Black Separation church as I would if Senator Byrd ran for President with a history in the KKK.

 

[Excel]

All this talk of the specifics of hate just drives the divisions amongst us deeper..

 

[BlackLantern]

Sigh.

So the numbers and personal experiences of thousands of others are invalidated because your happy behind slid through the cracks?

MEH.

it's not invalid or marginalized...I was just speaking from my personal experience....

 

[SentinelMind]

The statements above are racist.

In them you say that even though whites listen to more rap,.. it's only entertainment,.. but for blacks its a way of life or something to emulate. The concept that blacks don't have good role models (like whites) means that they will/can only mean they will follow the worst as outlined by the worst of rap.

Speaking only for my family I can say that NONE of us has taken, used, or emulated any of the negative aspects of Rap. Looking at the black families I'm aware of I don't see it happening to them either.

What I do see most often are white folk (once again) telling me what kind of people we are, what kind of things we do, what motivates us and why WE are messed up.

I'm Black, BTW. Am I racist against myself?

Second, personal anecdotal evidence, which I see in this thread often, does not substitute for overall patterns, trends, and data. I didn't say all blacks view rap as a way of life, but that due to most rappers being black, rap being most popular music for young black Americans, and the lack of role models for many blacks in....many young blacks will be more influenced by the negative aspects of rap than people in other races. I'm going to assume you're of a middle class, two parent home? That's not representative of all Blacks.

Others cannot relate to what rappers talk about...but they can indulge in the entertainment and go away escaping from it. Many young blacks are surrounded by that influence and incorporate ....not just the criminal elements of rap (drugs) , but the negative attitude of rap (hate "the man", hate the system, act like you're hard and don't have to answer to anyone) and discouraged from pushing themselves out of that atmosphere, environment...and on to a track of professonal, stable success.

 

[The Senator]

All this talk of the specifics of hate just drives the divisions amongst us deeper..

It's an important discussion. Hate exists on all levels, on all fronts, among all people. Some folks don't realize that, apparently.

 

[BlackLantern]

I think a large problem in the black community is the disdain for education....the mocking and bullying of those who strive for educational and academic success at elementary, middle, and high schools....

 

[StorminNorman]

All this talk of the specifics of hate just drives the divisions amongst us deeper..

Which is why I condemn both extremes equally.

 

[That'ssuper!]

The thing is, for a country which is supposed to have gone past racist politics in the Civil Rights Movement, why is it still applied to the negatives it?

 

[Matt]

The statements above are racist.

In them you say that even though whites listen to more rap,.. it's only entertainment,.. but for blacks its a way of life or something to emulate. The concept that blacks don't have good role models (like whites) means that they will/can only mean they will follow the worst as outlined by the worst of rap.

Speaking only for my family I can say that NONE of us has taken, used, or emulated any of the negative aspects of Rap. Looking at the black families I'm aware of I don't see it happening to them either.

What I do see most often are white folk (once again) telling me what kind of people we are, what kind of things we do, what motivates us and why WE are messed up.

ALL WITH THE ATTITUDE THAT WE PUT US IN OUR CURRENT POSITION.

Tsk

To an extent you are responsible for your current position. For the past 30 years or so, the opportunities have been out there, and yet for the most part, African American youth turns their back on them.

Whether you will admit it or not, rap music is a big reason. Rap music is no longer just music, it is an entire counter culture, and sure, you can say all music creates such subcultures, but none has been as prevelant in any culture as the rap subculture has become in the African American culture. The two have almost become ingrained with one another and that does create problems for the society as a whole.

 

[Varient]

I'm Black, BTW. Am I racist against myself?

Second, personal anecdotal evidence, which I see in this thread often, does not substitute for overall patterns, trends, and data. I didn't say all blacks view rap as a way of life, but that due to most rappers being black, rap being most popular music for young black Americans, and the lack of role models for many blacks in....many young blacks will be more influenced by the negative aspects of rap than people in other races. I'm going to assume you're of a middle class, two parent home? That's not representative of all Blacks.

Others cannot relate to what rappers talk about...but they can indulge in the entertainment and go away escaping from it. Many young blacks are surrounded by that influence and incorporate ....not just the criminal elements of rap (drugs) , but the negative attitude of rap (hate "the man", hate the system, act like you're hard and don't have to answer to anyone) and discouraged from pushing themselves out of that atmosphere, environment...and on to a track of professonal, stable success.

Two points,... no three:
1. If it were not possible to be "racist against your color" there wouldn't be terms like "Uncle Tom", "House Negro" And, "Field Negro" - So get off the "I'm black so I can continue to say divisive stupid stuff that tears us down as a group."
(I'm so tired of THE FIRST thing someone says when they KNOW they are wrong to lump a large portion of us together is : I'm black.)

2. Please don't play the "most", "Many" game with us. Somehow based on your attitude I doubt SERIOUSLY that you've ever lived in a ghetto let alone have a CLUE as to what others listen and emulate.
As far as overall patterns, (Generally white driven, as in they take ONE example and put it on ALL of us and say "it's a pattern."),
Trends, (Which has shown a STEADY decrease in BLACK related gang-driven crime with an Increase in White and Hispanic,... but hey,... we ain't hearing that,.. we in the middle of saying how bad blacks are right and the uninformed believe the trend is for blacks who listen to rap in lower than middleclass neighborhoods WILL become criminals.),
and DATA, (Holy crap! I have yet to find data that coorelates listeners of rap who are black being more likely to become gansters OR do crime.), I have to say that most of what you tried to put up as proof - is in most cases what the whites who need to believe that racism is a thing of the past - and all the hassles we go through today our simply our fault.

3. You assume incorrectly. I was Born and Raised on North 49th Street in Philadelphia Penn and there is NO WAY you could go there and even THINK that that place is in any way "middleclass."

I think my problem with you is you simply don't know,.. but you gonna tell us like you have a clue.

You black? Please stop reading what white folk are telling us sight unseen about our problems.

TSK.