"They're Attacking Me Because I'm White!"

[sinewave]

By all means, explain how its not. Obama knows Clinton was not attacking Dr. King or saying his accomplishments pale compared to LBJ. Yet he took the quote out of context and used it as a rallying point in a heavily black community. Seems just as bad if not worse than the things Clinton did.

here's obama's statement on clinton's remarks:

"Senator Clinton made an unfortunate remark, an ill-advised remark, about King and Lyndon Johnson... And she, I think, offended some folks who felt that somehow diminished King's role in bringing about the Civil Rights Act."

that doesn't sound like an implication of racism, but more like an accusation of selling MLK short, which is valid.

I will not apologize. I did not put words in your mouth. When you say things like "Republican tactics" you do imply that Democrats are some how morally better than Republicans. Just because you haven't said something explicitly does not mean you have not said it.

so accusing someone of using republican tactics = "all republicans are evil"? i see. that's some whip-crackin' razz-ma-tazz there, brotha. how does you employing some kind of strained logic to extract an inflammatory generalization about an enormous group of people (that happen include at least half of my wife's and my families and some very close friends) out of something i may or may not have implied equal me saying it, explicitly or otherwise? any other new rules you want to lay on me so i can attempt to level the playing field?

 

[Matt]

here's obama's statement on clinton's remarks:



that doesn't sound like an implication of racism, but more like an accusation of selling MLK short, which is valid.

Of course it is. He is trying to envoke anger by claiming that her comments are racially insensitive.

so accusing someone of using republican tactics = "all republicans are evil"? i see. that's some whip-crackin' razz-ma-tazz there, brotha. how does you employing some kind of strained logic to extract an inflammatory generalization about an enormous group of people (that happen include at least half of my wife's and my families and some very close friends) out of something i may or may not have implied equal me saying it, explicitly or otherwise? any other new rules you want to lay on me so i can attempt to level the playing field?

Yes, saying "Republican tactics" implies all Republicans are using evil sinister tactics. My only point is that you are generalizing Republicans much as you claim people generalize liberals.

 

[sinewave]

Of course it is. He is trying to envoke anger by claiming that her comments are racially insensitive.

at no point did he "claim" her comments were racially insensitive. that's your interpretation. he says nothing about race in that statement.

Yes, saying "Republican tactics" implies all Republicans are using evil sinister tactics. My only point is that you are generalizing Republicans much as you claim people generalize liberals.

okay, let me break this down for you:

1) due to the tactics like claiming mccain has an illegitimate black child, that john kerry faked his war injuries to gain a purple heart and associating triple amputee/vietnam vet/former senator max cleland with saddam hussein and osama bin laden are part of the republican's resume on dirty politics, i have no problem attributing that to the party.

2) how am i, as one person on a chat board devoted to superhero movies, generalizing republicans as much as the majority of the republican party is generalizing the entirety of the liberal base of the democratic party? have you noticed that republicans actually have to proclaim their conservative credentials to the republican party to gain their favor while none of the democrats have even muttered the word "liberal" during this campaign, even though they've been subjected to litmus test b.s. like proclaiming obama the "most liberal" senator?

for as long as i've followed your posts in the political arena i've considered you a moderate democrat, but you've caused me to question that characterization lately.

 

[Matt]

at no point did he "claim" her comments were racially insensitive. that's your interpretation. he says nothing about race in that statement.

Its called subtext. But I am sure your obvious bias towards Obama prevents you from seeing that. When you are capable of taking a critical look at the comments get back to me.

okay, let me break this down for you:

1) due to the tactics like claiming mccain has an illegitimate black child, that john kerry faked his war injuries to gain a purple heart and associating triple amputee/vietnam vet/former senator max cleland with saddam hussein and osama bin laden are part of the republican's resume on dirty politics, i have no problem attributing that to the party.

And you honestly do not believe Democrats have never used tactics like this? Don't be such a blind partisan tool of your party.

2) how am i, as one person on a chat board devoted to superhero movies, generalizing republicans as much as the majority of the republican party is generalizing the entirety of the liberal base of the democratic party? have you noticed that republicans actually have to proclaim their conservative credentials to the republican party to gain their favor while none of the democrats have even muttered the word "liberal" during this campaign, even though they've been subjected to litmus test b.s. like proclaiming obama the "most liberal" senator?

MY ENTIRE POINT WAS BOTH SIDES DO IT! Not just one, both. Believe it or not the Democrats do not just sit up in their ivory tower and try to defelect attacks from the evil Republicans. They're right down there in the trenches flinging mud back at them.

Second, like it or not, people percieve Obama as liberal. Like or not, liberal has turned into a dirty word. Simply the reality we live in. Don't blame me because your fragile mind can't handle that. I may not agree with it, you may not agree with it, doesn't matter. It is what is percieved by a majority and perception is reality. If you want to close your eyes and say "The sky is green," that is your problem.

for as long as i've followed your posts in the political arena i've considered you a moderate democrat, but you've caused me to question that characterization lately.

Allow me to say, I couldn't give two ****s whether you question your characterization of me. I know my beliefs, I know my party affiliation. Over the past few months everyone from my father to my 11th grade chemistry teacher has told me I need to vote Obama or Clinton or I am giving the election to the Republicans and I won't be a real Democrat. Bull ****. I will not be strong armed into voting for someone I do not believe in. I will abstain or vote third party first. I hope Obama does lose, as do I hope Hillary does, because it makes the odds that much greater that a real populist Democrat like Sherrod Brown will get the big chair in 2012.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Somehow, this became the "Engage Matt!" Thread.

But I must say--you are handling yourself boot-ifully here. :heart:

 

[sinewave]

Its called subtext. But I am sure your obvious bias towards Obama prevents you from seeing that. When you are capable of taking a critical look at the comments get back to me.

you call it subtext i call perception. you're reading into it that he's accusing her of being a racist because of the subject matter and his skin color. that's not my problem, it's yours.

And you honestly do not believe Democrats have never used tactics like this? Don't be such a blind partisan tool of your party.

fine, show me some examples of modern democrats sinking to that level, please.

MY ENTIRE POINT WAS BOTH SIDES DO IT! Not just one, both. Believe it or not the Democrats do not just sit up in their ivory tower and try to defelect attacks from the evil Republicans. They're right down there in the trenches flinging mud back at them.

Second, like it or not, people percieve Obama as liberal. Like or not, liberal has turned into a dirty word. Simply the reality we live in. Don't blame me because your fragile mind can't handle that. I may not agree with it, you may not agree with it, doesn't matter. It is what is percieved by a majority and perception is reality. If you want to close your eyes and say "The sky is green," that is your problem.

i think you're a little off the mark here, especially that first paragraph. what's that even pertaining to? "BOTH SIDES DO" what? you're not even responding to my comment about liberalism being denigrated with that, so i'm guessing you got confused.

i love how when confronted with, what i consider a pretty good argument of there being a double-standard in this country when if comes to conservatism and liberalism, your only response is, "**** happens". maybe some of us think things should change and don't want to just lay down and accept it, like you seem to be willing to do. i guess that stems from the fact that you don't consider yourself a liberal and therefore couldn't care less whether that political ideology isn't given the same level of respect, or even recognition, as the others.

Allow me to say, I couldn't give two ****s whether you question your characterization of me. I know my beliefs, I know my party affiliation. Over the past few months everyone from my father to my 11th grade chemistry teacher has told me I need to vote Obama or Clinton or I am giving the election to the Republicans and I won't be a real Democrat. Bull ****. I will not be strong armed into voting for someone I do not believe in. I will abstain or vote third party first. I hope Obama does lose, as do I hope Hillary does, because it makes the odds that much greater that a real populist Democrat like Sherrod Brown will get the big chair in 2012.

no one is trying to "strong arm" you here, psycho. vote for whoever you want, or don't. some of us, however, are willing to look at these three candidates, whittle down their pros and cons and side with one. if you don't plan on voting for any of the candidates then why are you here in this thread *****ing and moaning about obama? are you trying to "strong arm" some of us into not supporting him?

one more thing, how the hell are you still a mod if you're allowed to go around calling people names and getting so emotionally invested in a political argument that you feel the need to e-scream and carry on like an insolent brat? i've never seen another mod lose their **** like i've seen you do countless times. maybe you're not cut out for it.

 

[Matt]

Y'know what Sinewave. I'm done arguing with you. I'm sorry that I see and respond to the world the way it is as opposed to ranting how I want a dream world. Its called being a realist. Liberal is a dirty word in modern American politics. I don't like, but its something that needs to be considered to have intelligent discourse on politics.

Second, you can play the mod card all you want. I've made it quite clear in my words and my actions that I do NOT moderate in this forum unless there is an entirely out of control troll or a simple merge needed and no one else is around to handle it. The fact that you resort to that as opposed to debating poster to poster shows you aren't worth wasting time to debate.

 

[comicgirl]

Matt, your obvious bias against Obama does the same.




















It's no surprise Obama, McCain and Hillary are all sharpening their blades for each other. Look at us. Politics and religion, man.

 

[Matt]

Matt, your obvious bias against Obama does the same.

It's no surprise Obama, McCain and Hillary are all sharpening their blades for each other. Look at us. Politics and religion, man.

I'm not biased against him. I don't wake up every morning and curse his name. I have reviewed his policies and decided not to vote for him, plain and simple. That is not a bias. It is a decision. Being as we are here to debate politics, I have stated this position. Being as this board seems to be overwhelmingly pro-Obama, I am in a position where I must defend my stances quite a bit. Its not a bias, it is just discussion.

 

[comicgirl]

'kay. It's not surprising to me that the HYPE is a bit pro-Obama. Comicbook gearheads tend to vear to the left

I was saying in an earlier post that I really enjoyed talking to the Hillary folks in the parade with us today. No nasty back biting or other stuff. Just people talking about what they'd like to see in their leader. In the end, we agreed to disagree, shook hands and that was that. I don't think the Primary will be as civil.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Why is Obama considered Black?


Is it that old slavery thing of, "One Drop of Black Blood?"

 

[The Senator]

'kay. It's not surprising to me that the HYPE is a bit pro-Obama. Comicbook gearheads tent to vear to the left

Some of us lean to the left and don't support Obama...

 

[Matt]

Why is Obama considered Black?


Is it that old slavery thing of, "One Drop of Black Blood?"

Simple answer? Because both his campaign (by constantly talking about the history surrounding him) and the media (by doing the same) have caused him to be identified by the public as more of a black man than a mixed race man.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I hate that.


I hope everyone in America just keeps ****in' and ****in' until we're all a nice tan color.

 

[comicgirl]

I can see why Tiger Woods gets upset when he's named as the first black this or that. He feels that it denigerates his mother's heritage.

 

[Matt]

I can see why Tiger Woods gets upset when he's named as the first black this or that. He feels that it denigerates his mother's heritage.

But Obama has decided to not make the distinction and allow himself to be identified as black. It is as much his choice as it is the media's and who are we to judge him for it? I suppose it is simply the culture he identifies more with.

 

[Goddessreicho]

Why is Obama considered Black?


Is it that old slavery thing of, "One Drop of Black Blood?"

Yes and no. People who are mixed (depending on what they are mixed with and how much) may have the option of choosing how they identify themselves. Some don't have that option. Obama was seen as a Black Man long before the national spotlight hit him because that's what people saw him as.

To this day, mainstream America has no idea what a mixed person looks like because there is no single look for mixed people, they come in all shapes sizes and colors with different features.

I should know, both of my parents were half black and and white.

Simple answer? Because both his campaign (by constantly talking about the history surrounding him) and the media (by doing the same) have caused him to be identified by the public as more of a black man than a mixed race man.

Like I said, Obama considers himself black, then mixed because OTHER people see him that way. It's hard fighting other people for your racially identity 24/7/365 So, why not just let people have their way with it and fight battles you can win. It's hard useless work.

I hate that.


I hope everyone in America just keeps ****in' and ****in' until we're all a nice tan color.

They did that for a while in New Orleans. I think the euphemism for it was called Quadroon Culture, and it was expensive.

But seriously, in about 1000 years we'll all look like awesome anyway.

 

[comicgirl]

But Obama has decided to not make the distinction and allow himself to be identified as black. It is as much his choice as it is the media's and who are we to judge him for it? I suppose it is simply the culture he identifies more with.

Obama constantly reminds people that he was raised by his caucasian mother and grandparents. In our country, it's black or white.......period.

Even Tiger doesn't say anything anymore when ESPN refers to him and "other black players" in interviews. Biracial hasn't found a comfortable place in media lexicon yet.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I'm half Cherokee and half Irish.


I like firewater and LOTS of it.


You can call me "Dances With Druids"

 

[Matt]

Obama constantly reminds people that he was raised by his caucasian mother and grandparents. In our country, it's black or white.......period.

Even Tiger doesn't say anything anymore when ESPN refers to him and "other black players" in interviews. Biracial hasn't found a comfortable place in media lexicon yet.

But then at the same time he will turn around and say how he is going to make history and imply that history is being made by being the first African American president. He definitely tries to play both sides on it.

On a side note, has anyone ever seen the Curb Your Enthusiasm episode where Larry David is unsure if "milato" is politically correct or not? Aside from being a particularly funny episode, it sort of does apply to this entire race. The way everyone is ***** footing around these candidates (both Barack and Hillary) and trying to be as PC as possible and in turn almost coming off as Michael Scott-like in the sense that they try to hard and it is obvious.

 

[Goddessreicho]

Obama constantly reminds people that he was raised by his caucasian mother and grandparents. In our country, it's black or white.......period.

Even Tiger doesn't say anything anymore when ESPN refers to him and "other black players" in interviews. Biracial hasn't found a comfortable place in media lexicon yet.

I know. This is the dumbest thing this country has every done. And the fact that it [America] is still doing it, is even worse.

We as a whole people need to grow up and except that we d***ed each other over.

I'm half Cherokee and half Irish.


I like firewater and LOTS of it.


You can call me "Dances With Druids"

Ooo, that sounds sexy.

Me, lets see...Bermudian/Black-Portuguese, Anglo-American/Black-American and French.

Not so sexy

 

[Franklin Richards]

Sounds exotic.


How you doin'?

 

[Goddessreicho]

Sounds exotic.


How you doin'?

Exotic Ha ha. It's a Saturday night, and I'm getting my news from a Superhero forum, so I'm doing great.

Although now I have a really funny image of my head with "Dancing with Druids."

@Matt: Mulatto/Mulatta (sp?) is stupid and kinda ignorant. Its an old Spanish derivative of mule. That's about as relevant and non-ignorant as someone who uses the word colored or pickaninny.

 

[Matt]

Exotic Ha ha. It's a Saturday night, and I'm getting my news from a Superhero forum, so I'm doing great.

Although now I have a really funny image of my head with "Dancing with Druids."

@Matt: Mulatto/Mulatta (sp?) is stupid and kinda ignorant. Its an old Spanish derivative of mule. That's about as relevant and non-ignorant as someone who uses the word colored or pickaninny.

You misunderstood my intention. I know what it is. I am referencing an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry keeps using the word and offending people because he is unsure whether or not it is acceptable. If you watch Curb Your Enthusiasm you will understand. Larry often offends people by doing things he thinks is okay that aren't (Continuously calling a gay man a C-word in a poker game, for example).

 

[Goddessreicho]

You misunderstood my intention. I know what it is. I am referencing an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry keeps using the word and offending people because he is unsure whether or not it is acceptable. If you watch Curb Your Enthusiasm you will understand. Larry often offends people by doing things he thinks is okay that aren't (Continuously calling a gay man a C-word in a poker game, for example).

I haven't watched that show in years. Sometimes it was funny, like the carpooling thing and other times it was meh.

But common, this is the reason why so many people all across the board are stupidly ignorant. Why would someone constantly refer to someone's ethnic heritage right in front of their face and talk about them in the third person at the same time.

A good example: bringing a date to a family event and someone will continually refer to them as the White/Black/Asian girl or guy, and they are in earshot. Things like, "I didn't know White/Black/Asian people ate this or that." My personal favorite, "Wow, your hair is kinda curly. I thought it was just...big."

Another one I keep hearing is, "Why did Obama marry her, she's alot darker then he is?"

I don't really find humor in lazy ignorance. But making fun of the stupid of people who live their lives as drones of a particular way of thinking is friggin hilarious.