Discussion: The Second Amendment III

[Destructus86]

This.

But in situations like this, people just react and want a quick fix to make them feel better, even if it doesn't really do anything at all.

Then they wonder why it continues to happen again and again.

Exactly!! We need to stop going for the quick fix. We need to start looking ahead. The government is all about quick fixes, we should learn what NOT to do from them.

 

[SuBe]

It's all about prevention, not cure. Cure is costly, and is often like taking morphine for a tooth ache.

 

[Destructus86]

Let's focus more on taking care of the mentally ill. Let's focus on things that counter our extremely narcissistic and selfish media that we are bombarded with every single day. It may not change this generation...but I really believe that having a large enough positive influence to counter the negative CAN and will change the minds of future generations.

I am the last person to jump on the "tv violence makes you kill people!" band wagon. But I do think other parts of media do have a huge impact on a society as a whole or else people wouldn't spend millions on commercials. We need more organizations and companies to focus on drilling anti-narcissistic, anti-selfish behavior into our heads. Know what else narcissism is linked to? Violent behavior. Know what else? Isolation. Two key traits that are both linked to violent behavior and we have both of those in abundance...our entire society is built around it. Just pay attention to the hundreds of ads we see all over, they are designed (by very well paid people) to appeal to that side of us.

Want gun control? Fine...but real gun control is solving the issue of how people think and feel by countering the messages our children are constantly being told by mass media. Our kids put more value on their smart phone than they do human lives.


(oh and I play violent video games and watch plenty of rated R stuff. I'm no "soccer mom")

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I think TV violence is out of hand, actually.

Look at Batman (1989), or Lawrence of Arabia, those movies were violent, but they treated violence much different. When characters got shot, they died.

Now you have bullets flying everywhere, and heroes that can seemingly survive anything. A lot of this is advancements in special effects. Meaning they can render things that spectacular easily.

But we've grown up with programing that really makes violence seem like a game where no one important ever really gets hurt. That's dangerous.

It's especially vexing to me when something as natural and lovely as sex is considered taboo but Saw is not.

I'm not a big fan of censorship though, overall.

 

[SuBe]

Let's focus more on taking care of the mentally ill. Let's focus on things that counter our extremely narcissistic and selfish media that we are bombarded with every single day. It may not change this generation...but I really believe that having a large enough positive influence to counter the negative CAN and will change the minds of future generations.

I am the last person to jump on the "tv violence makes you kill people!" band wagon. But I do think other parts of media do have a huge impact on a society as a whole or else people wouldn't spend millions on commercials. We need more organizations and companies to focus on drilling anti-narcissistic, anti-selfish behavior into our heads. Know what else narcissism is linked to? Violent behavior. Know what else? Isolation. Two key traits that are both linked to violent behavior and we have both of those in abundance...our entire society is built around it. Just pay attention to the hundreds of ads we see all over, they are designed (by very well paid people) to appeal to that side of us.

Want gun control? Fine...but real gun control is solving the issue of how people think and feel by countering the messages our children are constantly being told by mass media. Our kids put more value on their smart phone than they do human lives.


(oh and I play violent video games and watch plenty of rated R stuff. I'm no "soccer mom")

I personally believe that violence has absolutely nothing to do with Violence TV, video games, rap music, movies, or guns, for that matter. It has everything to do with how we parent our children. Violent Media is a symptom of non-peaceful parenting. It's breed into children. Want to fix the problem? Educate Parents. Turn off the tv. Talk to children about their feelings and their wants and desires. About their dreams. Get to know your child as a person, not as just a consumer in the household, but as their own little being. Children won't grow up violent if the language of violence is not spoken in the home, just like they won't spontaneously speak Mandarin.

 

[justinlancaster]

Gun control advocate explaining the good thing about the Newtown shooting.

http://tinyurl.com/a3x3teo

 

[Marvolo]

So let me get this straight, they want to restrict magazines to 7 rounds and we would have to re-register our guns including shotguns? Like I would have to register my shotgun and reregister my pistol and turn in my magazines? Shotguns dont even have serial numbers unique to the individual gun as far as I know so I guess that is a no.

 

[chaseter]

In the Newtown school shooting, the guns he used were stolen from his mother so none of your suggestions would have worked.

That's one instance. The mother is at fault for all of that but she's dead now too so. Upping security would have helped. I do think all schools need a guard of some sort....whether armed or unarmed is up to the districts.

 

[Victarion]

Steve McLaughlin put up a pretty good argument against the legislation. He brought up anti-depressants and I can see where he is coming from; they basically give an individual a boost. The inbiber peaks, so to speak, and is given the energy necessary to act on their suicidal impulses.

I think inundating the public with coverage of an event is the problem; here you have real glorification of violence versus fictionalized, sensational depictions of violence in games, movies, etc. I highly recommend A Cure for Cancer by Michael Moorcock for social satire pertaining to the sensational news media.

 

[Thundercrack85]

So let me get this straight, they want to restrict magazines to 7 rounds and we would have to re-register our guns including shotguns? Like I would have to register my shotgun and reregister my pistol and turn in my magazines? Shotguns dont even have serial numbers unique to the individual gun as far as I know so I guess that is a no.

That would be New York. I believe some states already have similar laws.

 

[Thundercrack85]

That's one instance. The mother is at fault for all of that but she's dead now too so. Upping security would have helped. I do think all schools need a guard of some sort....whether armed or unarmed is up to the districts.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a person who buys multiple weapons if they have any insane people living in the house.

This whole thing could have been avoided with a gun safe.

 

[Marvolo]

Im not exactly comfortable with Obama using executive action to get this done. Seems a bit too dictator for my liking. I fully support stronger background checks and limiting mag capacity because if you cant defend yourself with ten rounds you need to go to the range more. I think limiting it to 7 rounds is a bit ridiculous seeing as that is only 1-2 rounds higher than revolver capacity and defeats the purpose of even buying a magazine pistol. But back to my concern. I feel Obama is overstepping a line. This should go through congress regardless of whether it can pass.

 

[SuBe]

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a person who buys multiple weapons if they have any insane people living in the house.

This whole thing could have been avoided with a gun safe.

It could also be avoided with "Bluetooth" trigger locks that only fire when the bluetooth dongle is within 30 feet. There are lots of things the free market can do to fix this if given the opportunity.

Gun safes are only a partial solution.

Isn't it strange that all of the shooters were on some sort of anti-psychotic medications?

 

[Thundercrack85]

It could also be avoided with "Bluetooth" trigger locks that only fire when the bluetooth dongle is within 30 feet. There are lots of things the free market can do to fix this if given the opportunity.

Gun safes are only a partial solution.

Isn't it strange that all of the shooters were on some sort of anti-psychotic medications?

Well to be fair to the drugs, it's kind of a chicken, egg thing. Those killers are presumably on that medication because there is something wrong with them.

No well-balanced person goes on those medications, and then goes on a killing spree. They're already ****** up.

 

[SuBe]

Well to be fair to the drugs, it's kind of a chicken, egg thing. Those killers are presumably on that medication because there is something wrong with them.

No well-balanced person goes on those medications, and then goes on a killing spree. They're already ****** up.

Maybe they are prescribed the drugs because it's easier to drug your children than it is to reexamine your parenting style and assume guilt for abusing or neglecting a child?

[YT]--I0X3-tOwE[/YT]

 

[Marvolo]

It could also be avoided with "Bluetooth" trigger locks that only fire when the bluetooth dongle is within 30 feet. There are lots of things the free market can do to fix this if given the opportunity.

Gun safes are only a partial solution.

Isn't it strange that all of the shooters were on some sort of anti-psychotic medications?

Couldnt they just steal the bluetooth as well?

I dont even like magazine disconnect safeties on guns. Not sure how I feel about having to have a bluetooth device to fire a gun. What if I leave it at home? Well there goes my defensive carry. Yeah, could say dont leave it at home but people lose their keys all the time not sure having to keep up with a bluetooth is the way to go. These things hinder the legal sane owners of guns and do nothing to treat the problem which is the mental health problems. We should be devoting just as much time to understanding mental health and finding cures as we do with cancer.

In a somewhat perfect world guns would be less complicated and less prone to failure, mental health problems would be cured, and gun safety would be taught to everyone. It may not be a perfect world but we can work towards this stuff by teaching gun safety and trying to help and cure the mentally unstable.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well it's hard to know what's true, since there's so much unreliable information floating out there, but I've read that apparently Lanza was worried he'd be institutionalized.

His mother also took him out of school, because she was unhappy with the school system's "plans" for him. Whatever that means.

Though the fact that he shot his mother in the head four times, suggests there were some family issues.

 

[SuBe]

Couldnt they just steal the bluetooth as well?

I dont even like magazine disconnect safeties on guns. Not sure how I feel about having to have a bluetooth device to fire a gun. What if I leave it at home? Well there goes my defensive carry. Yeah, could say dont leave it at home but people lose their keys all the time not sure having to keep up with a bluetooth is the way to go. These things hinder the legal sane owners of guns and do nothing to treat the problem which is the mental health problems. We should be devoting just as much time to understanding mental health and finding cures as we do with cancer.

In a perfect world guns would be less complicated and less prone to failure, mental health problems would be cured, and gun safety would be taught to everyone. It may not be a perfect world but we can work towards this stuff by teaching gun safety and trying to help and cure the mentally unstable.

I'm only saying the BT thing would be 1 safety precaution. There could be a million different solutions with many levels of cost/benefits. Not of them require being told by a Government Agent that if you don't do as they say they will throw you in a cage.

 

[Marvolo]

Well it's hard to know what's true, since there's so much unreliable information floating out there, but I've read that apparently Lanza was worried he'd be institutionalized.

His mother also took him out of school, because she was unhappy with the school system's "plans" for him. Whatever that means.

Though the fact that he shot his mother in the head four times, suggests there were some family issues.

Most likely the school wanted to out him in a special class. Some parents take that very personally which is understand able. No parent likes to be told their kid cant function in a standard class, but there comes a point where you have to wake up to whats really going on.

And shooting her four times in the head. Yeah, that is some serious rage.

 

[SuBe]

Well it's hard to know what's true, since there's so much unreliable information floating out there, but I've read that apparently Lanza was worried he'd be institutionalized.

His mother also took him out of school, because she was unhappy with the school system's "plans" for him. Whatever that means.

Though the fact that he shot his mother in the head four times, suggests there were some family issues.

They obviously had many family issues, the father not being there is one. Studies have shown that fathers being involved is very important to the mental development of children.

 

[Marvolo]

I'm only saying the BT thing would be 1 safety precaution. There could be a million different solutions with many levels of cost/benefits. Not of them require being told by a Government Agent that if you don't do as they say they will throw you in a cage.

Agreed. Car manufacturers work endlessly to make cars safer so why not do the same with guns. Each company could handle its own R&D on gun safety. Like Jon Stewart said, we as a country have bubble wrapped everything even our coffee has warnings so why not work towards making guns safer for the innocent bystanders. The big problem is without the government breathing down the necks of these gun companies and the necks of people no one would try to make guns safer because they just care about making a profit and having their guns. We as a society have told the government we cant/wont do it on our own so the government has done it for us. Like it or not we all have caused this situation through inaction.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Palm print readers, or some other smart gun technology should be utilized.

But in the meantime, what's wrong with old fashioned trigger and chamber locks?

 

[chaseter]

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a person who buys multiple weapons if they have any insane people living in the house.

This whole thing could have been avoided with a gun safe.

Again that was the mother's fault. She was an idiot.

There is literally no way to follow through to make sure guns are being locked up short of Gestapo esque knocking on every door.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, I guess you could take legal action, except... she's dead.

Still, if you can encourage people (either through law, or by handing out free gun locks) to keep their guns from insane family members, why not try?

Remind them that they may be said crazy person's first target. That should be a good incentive.

 

[Marvolo]

Palm print readers, or some other smart gun technology should be utilized.

But in the meantime, what's wrong with old fashioned trigger and chamber locks?

My only concern with palm print readers is that you are incapacitated and another family member or friend cant use the weapon to defend themselves. I mean if I go down I want whoever is standing by to be able to defend themselves and shoot the bastard who hit me. What we need is smart guns. With CPUs that can be preprogrammed with a set of parameters. You can encode multiple palm prints of your choosing and have a fail safe of some sort to allow a stanger to use the gun if need be. It could have a voice lock and optional key code so the gun can not be turned on the owner or anyone they care about. At first they would be insanely priced but eventually they would trickle down to an affordable price. This is the 21st century I think its time for this. If we can make an Iphone and ipad we can make a smart gun.