Discussion: The Tea Party

[StorminNorman]

But when do you label the entire group extreme? How many instances of violence or sabre rattling does it take before you consider a group extreme?


I have no problem with calling the rioters who attend G20 meetings extreme. They tear up every place they go. They use threatening tactics. They vandalize.

What has the Tea Party done that you would consider "extreme"? What action would you describe as an act of "extremism?"

 

[Carcharodon]

You know people aren't just about race, right? If nothing else, the Tea Party is made up of all CLASSES, all AGES, all BACKGROUNDS. You have intellectuals, you have plumbers, you have political radicals, you have apolitical housewives all apart of it. It is inherently racist to only focus on race as a sign of diversity.

Yep, Norman, I'm a racist. You got me.

Can you show me a breakdown of this diversity?

 

[StorminNorman]

I don't believe you to be racist, Cach you have demonstrated yourself to be a man of ration and reason (which are incompatible with racism). I was simply pointing out that viewing diversity only in terms of race is beneath you. As far as a breakdown, right now I can't due to the piss poor conditions of the computer I am using but I will find something by the end of the night. I would point out, however, that I am a pot smoking, drug legalization for all, Bush-was-a-fascist, taoist, libertarian, 21-year old college drop out radical and I am well at home in the same movement as a movement defined as "old, white, crusty, rich conservative people".

 

[chaseter]

No, because the followers of Islam doing the extreme crap are not doing it because the religion condones it. They are just doing it in its name, just like Christians did when they burned witches.

An extremist is an extremist, and these extreme Tea Party members are definitely a disturbing trend.

Exactly.

There will always be extreme member of any group, movement, or religion. That doesn't mean the entire group, movement, or religion is extreme. But, in politics you label the entire movement as one. Republicans calling all Democrats Socialists and Marxists is the same thing as Democrats calling Republicans Nazis and Racists.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Exactly.

There will always be extreme member of any group, movement, or religion. That doesn't mean the entire group, movement, or religion is extreme. But, in politics you label the entire movement as one. Republicans calling all Democrats Socialists and Marxists is the same thing as Democrats calling Republicans Nazis and Racists.

Exactly. I hate when people throw around these terms all the time, because more often than not, they have no idea what it actually means and are just taking the info they're being spoon fed as fact.

Sound bites are nice, but when that is the crux of your knowledge on a group and you grow to hate them over a couple of idiots, then I think people are being closed minded.

 

[Carcharodon]

Exactly.

There will always be extreme member of any group, movement, or religion. That doesn't mean the entire group, movement, or religion is extreme.

Agreed. But is there ever a time or instance when you could characterize an entire movement as extreme? When does that become the case? That's the interesting question.

 

[Franklin Richards]

So am I. I guess I just misunderstood your intention, given the context of the conversation. I made an assumption.

Well of course I would brand the KKK extreme. They use terrorism to further their agenda. Is terrorism the line?


What about intimidation? Is hanging outside a voting station and looking mean a step in that direction or is it over the line?


How bout showing up to a rally with automatic weaponry? Is that the act of a single nut? Some guy practicing his "rights"? Or is it sabre rattling?


It seems that some of these groups don't do enough to distance themselves from these kooks. Some even come up with elaborate excuses which basically condone their actions.


I know it's your right to fart in church but should you do it?



Anywho... I'm not trying to do the laywer thing where I'm setting up an argument for later. I'm sincere in my quest for knowledge.


At least in this instance.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I really grow tired of people saying "the Tea party is composed of all sorts of people, many of them intellectuals". It's akin to saying "nine out of ten doctors agree" - the classic bandwagon argument. It doesn't really prove anything concrete about what they are saying or protesting - all of which could be profoundly stupid.

As far as I can tell the Tea Party is simply a group who is fed up with many of the taxes they are compelled to pay. This is nothing new, and it's a rather hard thing to argue against. Much like going to the dentist it will never be very popular, until the proverbial toothache comes along, then the dentist is man's best ally.

I don't think it's entirely fair to categorize the tea party as racist. Racism merely adds fuel to the movement, which, as I said, is primarily about taxes. It's just easy to coax a bunch of followers, specifically the older white crowd (55+, which makes up nearly 50% of the movement) into the Tea Party by stoking the flames of racism. Most of those people grew up when racism was much more socially acceptible, and considering their environment a black President is jarring to say the least.

 

[Marx]

I really grow tired of people saying "the Tea party is composed of all sorts of people, many of them intellectuals". It's akin to saying "nine out of ten doctors agree" - the classic bandwagon argument. It doesn't really prove anything concrete about what they are saying or protesting - all of which could be profoundly stupid.

As far as I can tell the Tea Party is simply a group who is fed up with many of the taxes they are compelled to pay. This is nothing new, and it's a rather hard thing to argue against. Much like going to the dentist it will never be very popular, until the proverbial toothache comes along, then the dentist is man's best ally.

I don't think it's entirely fair to categorize the tea party as racist. Racism merely adds fuel to the movement, which, as I said, is primarily about taxes. It's just easy to coax a bunch of followers, specifically the older white crowd (55+, which makes up nearly 50% of the movement) into the Tea Party by stoking the flames of racism. Most of those people grew up when racism was much more socially acceptible, and considering their environment a black President is jarring to say the least.

Those are the Ron Paul Tea Partiers...not the Sarah Palin Tea Partiers.

 

[Jimbo]

If the tea party isn't racist why do they keep having David Duke speak at their events.
This guy hates blacks and Jews. Why associate with him?

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Those are the Ron Paul Tea Partiers...not the Sarah Palin Tea Partiers.

That's too much for me to keep up with...all I know is the rent is too damn high. If only we had some politician who understood this.

 

[StorminNorman]

Ron Paul Tea Partiers and Sarah Palin Tea Partiers are all Tea Partiers.

 

[AG1973]

You know people aren't just about race, right? If nothing else, the Tea Party is made up of all CLASSES, all AGES, all BACKGROUNDS. You have intellectuals, you have plumbers, you have political radicals, you have apolitical housewives all apart of it. It is inherently racist to only focus on race as a sign of diversity.

The TEA party may have started out as a group truly concerned about taxes and government but the expansion of the movement is a direct result of hatred of President Obama due to his complexion and fear of the nation moving away from 1950s thinking. 50% of TEA partiers think that President Obama is not an American Citizen and whatever other bad thing Rush, Beck, Palin, & Hannity say about him.

 

[AG1973]

If the tea party isn't racist why do they keep having David Duke speak at their events.
This guy hates blacks and Jews. Why associate with him?

Good point!

 

[Kelly]

And....

1 in 5 Americans think Obama is a Cactus.....figure that one out.

 

[Doomed_hero]

The Tea Party is nothing more then a bunch of people being used by corperations and the media to push there agenda. Do I belive there is crazy people in the Tea party? yes. Do I belive that there are people with reall issues and well informed debat in the Tea Pary? Yes.

However m main problem is the media gives them way to much attention. They act like its a grass root movement created by the people to fit into this narritve of the rebublican landslide in the mid terms. And it is a story line thats been focused on for 2 years now. I want to see some real debate over the issues, yet everytime it seems like on the news we may get some, they come out with what the tea pary says. And then that controls the narritve.

 

[Kelly]

Media also loves to show them as a bunch of crazy racists.....the media coverage goes both ways.

 

[Doomed_hero]

I know. I was not saying one way or another, my problem is if there shown as crazy or rationale people. The media has to get them invloved in every story invloved in politics today. It gets annoying after 2 years to have every story involving what the Tea Party thinks. I mean I can be reaind about a vacation for the President and bam I get to here what the Tea party thinks of his location chioce.

 

[Kelly]

The media gets them involved in politics today, because THEY ARE INVOLVED in politics today. They could very well change the face of Congress, why wouldn't the media show that?

 

[Doomed_hero]

Because I belive that they give them to much credit and don't ask other opioins outside of the tea party. It feels like a 24 hour Tea party coverage rather then politics. I agree its a major part odf politics today, yet I think the media inflates them to much and they begin to monoploize every story, even ones that don't involve them.

 

[Kelly]

Are you saying credit in a positive way, or in any way. Whether you give them credit in change that is positive or negative, they have had a huge impact on this election. More so than any other group out there, why wouldn't that be publicized in one way or the other?

It wouldn't matter if it were the Green Party making the same kind of impact, if they were making this impact the media would be reporting on it. Just as Ross Perot did back in the 90's....he was making a huge impact on the Presidential Race, therefore he got the media attention, why wouldn't he?

 

[StorminNorman]

The TEA party may have started out as a group truly concerned about taxes and government but the expansion of the movement is a direct result of hatred of President Obama due to his complexion and fear of the nation moving away from 1950s thinking. 50% of TEA partiers think that President Obama is not an American Citizen and whatever other bad thing Rush, Beck, Palin, & Hannity say about him.

The Tea Party started out as a group truly concerned about taxes. Then it became a group that was just pissed off about government in general. Now are a lot of partisan Republicans in it pissed off only because they aren't the ones in power? Absolutely! But the majority are average Americans pissed with Washington.

They aren't new. They are the people that stopped voting Republican in 2006. They are the people that voted Obama into office (which is not to say all of the Tea Party voted for Obama, but more than you expect did). They are the people that have for years given Congress and the President (of both parties) hilariously low approval ratings.

If you think race is the reason they hate this President, at this point - with the experiences you have had in this board, then I can't help you, sir. You are choosing to ignore reality.

 

[Doomed_hero]

I guess. I am not doubting there impace( which I see as a negitive one since I feel the movement is being used by others and not a grassroot.) I am just saying every story in politics does not need to involve them. When I want to here the facts on a bill in the news, why can't I hear the facts as oppose to just what the tea party thinks of the bill. I am just upset since i think the media is caught up in this narritive it cant get itself or doesnt want to get itself out of. One that focuses on the divides rather then the issues. And they use the tea party as that wedge.

 

[Kelly]

I guess. I am not doubting there impace( which I see as a negitive one since I feel the movement is being used by others and not a grassroot.) I am just saying every story in politics does not need to involve them. When I want to here the facts on a bill in the news, why can't I hear the facts as oppose to just what the tea party thinks of the bill. I am just upset since i think the media is caught up in this narritive it cant get itself or doesnt want to get itself out of. One that focuses on the divides rather then the issues. And they use the tea party as that wedge.

Well, I don't necessarily fault the media for the amount of time they have given to this movement, it is a movement that has impacted an entire election, that is newsworthy IMO, whether you agree with them or not.

What I disagree with is the one-sided view that some media has placed on this movement.

I don't get my information on issues from the media, I research them myself.

 

[AG1973]

The Tea Party started out as a group truly concerned about taxes. Then it became a group that was just pissed off about government in general. Now are a lot of partisan Republicans in it pissed off only because they aren't the ones in power? Absolutely! But the majority are average Americans pissed with Washington.

They aren't new. They are the people that stopped voting Republican in 2006. They are the people that voted Obama into office (which is not to say all of the Tea Party voted for Obama, but more than you expect did). They are the people that have for years given Congress and the President (of both parties) hilariously low approval ratings.

If you think race is the reason they hate this President, at this point - with the experiences you have had in this board, then I can't help you, sir. You are choosing to ignore reality.

I should have said a considerable portion of the TEA partys expansion is due to the complexion of the President. The extreme Palin McCain supporters needed a home they went to the TEA party.