Disney's Frozen

[JP]

It is higher on iTunes for a few obvious reason.

It is different in that it is far inferior. Making the single version of "Beauty and the Beast" always made sense, considering who sang the film version and how it plays. Idina Menzel does this for a living and it shows, especially in comparison.

So does Angela Lansbury.

And Lea Salonga, who sang for Jasmin and Mulan.

 

[DACrowe]

I didn't see Tangled because I thought it was just gonna be some mediocre movie like what Disney was putting out with Meet the Robinsons, Bolt, Brother Bear, Home on the Range, etc.

Back when I was in High School, my Spanish teacher put in Tangled because we didn't have any work to do and at first I was against the idea along with a few other people. Imagine how surprised we were(especially me) when the beginning of the movie sucked us in. I'm talking about a whole class of high school students that were genuinely loving the movie. So much that we actually booed when the bell rang and we had to leave a little bit after the "I See the Light" part. I think I prefer the way I saw it, because that's a memory I won't ever forget.




And this isn't really related, but Rapunzel is the best Disney princess. Hands down. Hands down, people! Rapunzel was unlike any Disney princess I'd ever seen before. Whereas watching some things that Anna does reminds me of Rapunzel. Things like clumsiness(although Anna's way more clumsier), using a pan as a weapon, seeming "airy" at times, and maybe a few other similarities that aren't coming to mind. Don't get me wrong, Anna was her own person, but she did remind me of Rapunzel in some instances.

That's sounds like a great memory.

I think it is all personal preference of who is your favorite. Rapunzel is up there, but the ones I grew up with (Jasmine, Ariel and Belle) will of course be my preference. I will say that Rapunzel reminded me a lot of a non-half-fish Ariel who was a little clumsier. But both wanted to be "Part of Your World" and had a self-determined willfulness to see the broader world, leading them to ultimately disobey protective parents. Of course, in Mermaid he was just a caring father who didn't want his daughter "caught on fishermen's hooks" (read between those lines what you will) and Rapunzel's mother was actually an evil stepmother in the classic Disney sense who was using her daughter to vicariously feel young.

However, their arcs and "dreams" are very similar to me. Legs and lights being the same difference.

Anna felt a little different in that not only was she clumsy, but it was about her love of a sister. She even literally [blackout]choses to save her sister over saving herself (if only in her own head) with a "true love's kiss" with Kristoff.[/blackout] It was a surprisingly nuanced motivation and arc for a Disney heroine. That I really appreciated.

However, Rapunzel is easily the best rendered and designed of the 3D princesses. Though the Frozen ones turned out to be much better than I initially thought.

 

[DACrowe]

Spoiler

I thought it about it some more and I feel like Hans evil turn came out of nowhere. He was shown as being kind and caring for all the people and even helped save the queen. In fact, I thought they were going to pair them off at the end. It was as if they needed a real villain besides the old guy and made a last minute change. Really wish they had kept Hans a good guy all the way through.

I called it early. It is set up with how [blackout]silly and juvenile his "courtship" with Anna is. Something both Elsa and Kristoff call her on. As in, it is a subversive parody of old Disney cliches. The twist just reinforced this new message that you cannot fall in love with someone in mere minutes.[/blackout]

I thought it worked. It was more of his rather easy resolution of going home that I did not like.

 

[X Knight]

I thought it was sweet at the end when

Spoiler

Kristoff asked for Anna's permission to kiss her.

 

[DACrowe]

I never quite understood the Lion King love. Is it because it has a male lead? I watched it just as much as I watched the others growing up, but never had the same kind of affection for it. It is definitely harrowing and engaging. It is good, and at times great, but it never measured up to the other three films.

I'd take Frozen, Tangled and Ralph over it pretty easily. I'd personally enjoy watching Mulan, Hercules and Tarzan more though I'd say The Lion King is a better film then those three.

It and Aladdin hold the advantage when you're a little boy of being about boys. But it holds up because it is an epic.

Unlike the rest of the GREAT Disney Renaissance films, it is not based on a fairy tale. However, unlike some of the lesser later efforts which were based on great adult literature (Notre Dame) or a very un-fairy tale historical event (Pocahontas and the founding of Jamestown), it was an original story. It was "inspired" by Hamlet, but it was not Disney's Hamlet (imagine the horror of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern doing pop culture jokes after Hamlet and Ophelia get their happily ever after!). It was a setting that allowed them to draw on the big themes and a few of the subplots and subtext of that story, and put it in something more elemental.

The movie isn't about finding love, but accepting ones responsibilities as an adult and living up to the shadow of their father. It has Biblical undertones of fratricide, ambition and the rivalry existent in most males, even those tied by blood. And it does so with an epic, pounding score from Hans Zimmer before that became a cliche, and it does that by killing off Mufasa (aka the world's greatest dad) and not flinching away from it like Bambi does. It makes the audience see the murder and linger on that painful emotion for several minutes. And yes, the Elton John music, while not as "fun" as the best of Menken and Ashman, again mostly adds to the elemental scope of Lion King.

In many ways, it lays out a formula for Pixar. Take well worn tropes--Lion King chose Hamlet, but Toy Story picked buddy comedies and Finding Nemo chose the lost child narrative--and reinvent them in a world that only animation can create (talking lions or inanimate objects like toys coming alive). But unlike Pixar, it still has that "Disney" touch of Broadway ready musical numbers (clearly in retrospect) and adorable sidekicks helping main characters on their quest.

To date, it remains the most nuanced and complex story and characterizations of a Walt Disney Animation Studios film. Yes, even moreso than Beauty and the Beast and Frozen in that regard.

 

[terry78]

While Hercules was basically Superman. Hades was a hybrid of Lex/Zod, only funny.




On another note, work it Elsa.

 

[jacobed]

Really enjoyed this. I liked Tangled more but this is up there with it. Really great

 

[X Knight]

On another note, work it Elsa.

 

[jmc]

Elsa's got some hips going there.

I never quite understood the Lion King love. Is it because it has a male lead? I watched it just as much as I watched the others growing up, but never had the same kind of affection for it. It is definitely harrowing and engaging. It is good, and at times great, but it never measured up to the other three films.

I'd take Frozen, Tangled and Ralph over it pretty easily. I'd personally enjoy watching Mulan, Hercules and Tarzan more though I'd say The Lion King is a better film then those three.

For me as a guy it being a male lead character definitely elevates it because there's something I can relate to with the whole father/son/becoming a man type of storyline. It's basically Shakespeare told in animal form. Ralph has also become another one of my favourites due to it being a male lead as well as the video game aspect to it. Disney do the female lead stuff really well, but I think they painted themselves too much into the female corner, hell even Aladdin is overshadowed by Jasmine.

 

[X Knight]

Elsa's got some hips going there.

For me as a guy it being a male lead character definitely elevates it because there's something I can relate to with the whole father/son/becoming a man type of storyline. It's basically Shakespeare told in animal form. Ralph has also become another one of my favourites due to it being a male lead as well as the video game aspect to it. Disney do the female lead stuff really well, but I think they painted themselves too much into the female corner, hell even Aladdin is overshadowed by Jasmine.

that's cuz Jasmine's hotter.

 

[jmc]

Hard to argue. She's number 3 on my animated girlfriend list.

 

[X Knight]

maybe it's because I am a guy, but I actually prefer the fairy tale stories with princess leads.

I always like strong female protagonists, and Disney does a great job of creating those in its princess lineup.

If it's a non-fairy tale/non-princess film, I don't really have much interest.

Like, I keep hearing how good Wreckit Ralph is, and even though it's about video game characters ( which should interest me ), I just don't have much interest in it.

 

[flickchick85]

As a female, the gender of the lead in The Lion King doesn't even enter into why I love it. I love it because the story is as epic as they come (it's Shakespeare ffs!!!), the characters are memorable, and the music and visuals are the most powerful I've ever encountered in a Disney flick. And it reduces me to a puddle of tears several times on every. single. viewing.

 

[jmc]

maybe it's because I am a guy, but I actually prefer the fairy tale stories with princess leads.

I always like strong female protagonists, and Disney does a great job of creating those in its princess lineup.

If it's a non-fairy tale/non-princess film, I don't really have much interest.

Like, I keep hearing how good Wreckit Ralph is, and even though it's about video game characters ( which should interest me ), I just don't have much interest in it.

Don't get me wrong I love the girls too, it's just their stories don't hit home to me nearly as much, there's just more for me to grip onto for a story like Lion King because it's dealing with fathers and sons. Same reason I love Find Nemo and Incredibles. I maintain the opening 5 mins of Lion King is one of the best openings in all of cinema.

 

[Loki882]

I love a lot of the female heroines to, Belle would be my favorite with Mulan being second. However, most of those heroines journey's are ultimately about love and finding love. There's nothing wrong with that and I've really enjoyed most of those films, but what made Lion King so interesting was that it ultimately WASN'T a love story. Simba's romance with Nala was a minor subplot. The real point was about Simba letting go of the past and accepting his destiny/responsibility. One of the reason why I love Mulan so much, though certainly not the only one, is that the love thing in Mulan was also pretty minor. The real story was about her accepting herself and having other's accept her. It was a coming of age story to. I wish that Disney would do more stuff like that with female heroines in the future.

 

[X Knight]

speaking of Mulan, isn't she like the only Disney princess who's not a true princess, either by birth or marriage?

 

[X Knight]

and actually, I'd say that for the princesses, a common theme among them is not finding love but wanting more out of life or escaping their current situation.

They feel trapped in some way and want to be free.

Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, Mulan, Rapunzel, Anna, Elsa.

They all want to break free from something. And that's more of their primary motivation than finding love. Love is something they find along the way.

Although with Anna, she does seem to have romance on her mind right from the start.......lol

When I first heard For The First Time In Forever and listened to the lyrics, my reaction is that Anna must be [BLACKOUT]really desperate and horny.[/BLACKOUT]

[BLACKOUT]And apparently Hans picked up on that, too.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[jmc]

and actually, I'd say that for the princesses, a common theme among them is not finding love but wanting more out of life or escaping their current situation.

They feel trapped in some way and want to be free.

Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, Mulan, Rapunzel, Anna, Elsa.

They all want to break free from something. And that's more of their primary motivation than finding love. Love is something they find along the way.

It's those repetitive character traits which I don't really care for.

 

[X Knight]

so what other strong female fairy tale characters are out there for Disney to do next?

 

[jmc]

Thumbelina maybe? I don't know.

 

[terry78]

Don Bluth already did it. I know Disney already did Aida for theatre, but they'd have to tone down a lot.

 

[X Knight]

Anna did reference a Joan in one of her paintings, who I'm assuming is referring to Joan of Arc.

Could she make for a Disney princess?

It would be an interesting story......not sure how it would do as a musical...........

 

[jmc]

Anna did reference a Joan in one of her paintings, who I'm assuming is referring to Joan of Arc.

Could she make for a Disney princess?

It would be an interesting story......not sure how it would do as a musical...........

Joan of Arc as a Disney film? Yikes. That said, I think maybe something historical based would be a nice change a la Pocahontas.

 

[X Knight]

yeah. and I really wouldn't mind another warrior/fighter type princess. Mulan needs some company........lol

 

[DACrowe]

Yep. He adapted a Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale where he made his vision of the titular hero being that of a red head voiced by Jodi Benson.

The less we think about how the mighty like Bluth fell in the '90s the better.

They already have productions for Jack and the Beanstalk ("Giants" in 2016) and "Moana" in 2018. The latter will probably be the next "princess" movie (unless the success of Frozen causes them to fast track a lot more) and is set in the South Pacific 2000 years ago. It is from John Musker and Ron Clements of The Little Mermaid and Aladdin....as well as The Princess and the Frog (everyone has off days?), and it will be done as a 2D-3D hybrid utilizing "Paperman" technology.

I imagine that a European fairy tale will become a priority for the company after this weekend, as Frozen is ALSO joining Hunger Games in beating the previous Thanksgiving weekend record held by Harry Potter. Well done.