Do you agree with Marvel firing James Gunn?

[jmc]

Are you for real?

 

[fan4stic]

deleted.

 

[Detective Conan]

'Serious' is the last thing I'd call any Fantastic Four comic personally. The heart of the series is the family dynamic between the four heroes. They bicker, they fight but together they are strong and can take on any foe. Personally my ideal tone would be a mix between The Incredibles and Guardians of the Galaxy; I want it to be a cheesy, feel-good blockbuster movie akin to Back to the Future and Ghostbusters.

Agree to disagree. I certainly think comics like "This Man! This Monster!" certainly quantify as 'serious'(even if you don't think so). The FF is not one homogeneous tone. It can be serious, it can be humorous, but it is not a out-right comedy. We'll never agree. There's stories in the FF that are quite serious like Sue having a miscarriage. As I said before the ideal tone for FF for me would be the Avengers or a New Hope--those are certainly fun and humorous films, sure, but they are overall serious films. That's kind of the tone the FF films should shoot for.

 

[Flash525]

Pratt's post is right. Forgiveness, yes, slow to anger, yes. All of that. The Bible is truth.

It really isn't. You can all but guarantee there was more paedophilia by people of position back in those days than there are now.

But I'm not sure if Gunn's apology is legit and whether he can be trusted. He could be a pedophile. We don't know everything about him as a person. Should we take that chance?

I really don't think he is; it's been said countless times now, but he was (or is?) a comedian, and it just so happened that he posted a few really bad jokes; some jokes don't transition well when read (better to be spoken).

I could watch a comedy show, and regardless of the comedian, you can bet that some of the jokes they're telling just wouldn't be remotely funny if they were read, but because they're being spoken, they are.

I think if James Gunn was a paedophile, there'd be a load of people jumping out of the woodwork after the firing events claiming that Gunn had molested them as a child. Seeing as how nobody has come forward, I wouldn't think such a case exists. Heck, there's not even been any opportunists; with actual sex offenders (like Harvey) there's been opportunity by others (maybe people who weren't actually assaulted but fancy their chances) to get something out of it. This isn't the case here, as I doubt Gunn has ever put himself in a position that could be used against him, aside from these harmless tweets.

Frankie Boyle and Jimmy Carr are two ... subjective comedians (they're british); they often joke about the disabled, about rape, and yet we know they're joking - it's just the sort of humour they work with. They aren't suddenly accused of being a rapist or paedophile.

 

[fan4stic]

It really isn't. You can all but guarantee there was more paedophilia by people of position back in those days than there are now.

The Bible is. People of position doesn't have anything to do with what I said.

I really don't think he is; it's been said countless times now, but he was (or is?) a comedian, and it just so happened that he posted a few really bad jokes; some jokes don't transition well when read (better to be spoken).

I could watch a comedy show, and regardless of the comedian, you can bet that some of the jokes they're telling just wouldn't be remotely funny if they were read, but because they're being spoken, they are.

I think if James Gunn was a paedophile, there'd be a load of people jumping out of the woodwork after the firing events claiming that Gunn had molested them as a child. Seeing as how nobody has come forward, I wouldn't think such a case exists. Heck, there's not even been any opportunists; with actual sex offenders (like Harvey) there's been opportunity by others (maybe people who weren't actually assaulted but fancy their chances) to get something out of it. This isn't the case here, as I doubt Gunn has ever put himself in a position that could be used against him, aside from these harmless tweets.

Frankie Boyle and Jimmy Carr are two ... subjective comedians (they're british); they often joke about the disabled, about rape, and yet we know they're joking - it's just the sort of humour they work with. They aren't suddenly accused of being a rapist or paedophile.

I'm not making a claim of his guilt. I'm questioning whether he's something.

 

[Flash525]

The Bible is. People of position doesn't have anything to do with what I said.

You claimed the Bible is truth. That's subjective.

I'm not making a claim of his guilt. I'm questioning whether he's something.

He is something? Care to elaborate? He's Human (we make mistakes and sometimes post silly things on social media) so there's that, unless you're meaning something very specific.

 

[jmc]

I don't know how true this is but there some speculation on twitter Rian Johnson may have deleted up to 20,000 tweets on the back of this. There's probably a lot of very nervous people in Hollywood at the moment.

 

[Flash525]

I don't know how true this is but there some speculation on twitter Rian Johnson may have deleted up to 20,000 tweets on the back of this. There's probably a lot of very nervous people in Hollywood at the moment.

Next thing you know comedians worldwide will be cancelling all their tours for fear of saying the wrong thing.

People just can't take a joke anymore, regardless of whether it's in poor taste or not.

 

[Ozbridge]

I agree with the decision, but it felt a bit harsh. If I were Alan Horn I would have released a statement saying that what he tweeted didn’t reflect Disney’s value and production was put on hold, waited for people to get used to the idea that there was a chance he could be fired, then in Sunday evening announced that Disney had decided to fired him. Firing him within less than 10 hours seemed a bit of a knee jerk reaction so I suspect Gunn probably had other way more serious skeletons in his closet discovered by Disney (or he confessed to them before they decided to fire him.

Considering the decision is really controversial, I think Disney can still afford to use his script though.

Are we going to target former addicts who are clean now because of how they once were? Should we just not let ex-convicts back into society now after they have done their time because they were ONCE offenders?

I don’t think we ever need to target addicts, current or former (or is that a thing in the US?). Those people need help, not punishment. And ex-convicts actually have served time, so of course they are welcomed back into the society. Gunn has never been (considerably) negatively affected by his tweets until now, and this might be the time (he has never even apologized for those tweets until now). Besides, it isn’t like he is arrested, or he was fired from an R-rated Blumhouse horror movie, he was fired from a PG-13 family oriented Disney movie. All in all, he simply lost a contractual job. He still has his family, friends, fans and other works.

I don't know how true this is but there some speculation on twitter Rian Johnson may have deleted up to 20,000 tweets on the back of this. There's probably a lot of very nervous people in Hollywood at the moment.

If he used to say things that make him mortified now, he should delete those tweets. I get it that some people probably keep them in the spirit of “I have nothing to hide and I have changed and grown”, but personally I will choose to delete them.

 

[fan4stic]

You claimed the Bible is truth. That's subjective.

He is something? Care to elaborate? He's Human (we make mistakes and sometimes post silly things on social media) so there's that, unless you're meaning something very specific.

I know it is and have experienced it.

I'm questioning whether he's pedophile or not. If he is, that's not something I'd want to be supportive of.

 

[Flash525]

I know it is and have experienced it.

You have experienced the Bible? ...so you've read it? You can't otherwise experience a book.

I'm questioning whether he's pedophile or not. If he is, that's not something I'd want to be supportive of.

Are you questioning whether he's an actual paedophile though, or whether he just has paedophilic tendencies? In the case of the latter, that implies thoughts but not acts, whereas the former is acting on said thoughts. The latter is classed as a mental disorder.

Regardless, if he's fiddled with kids, then he deserves to be punished just as anyone else would [unless you're of high enough position and/or power and can avoid such things] If he's merely made jokes about the subject though, then he's guilty only of having a slightly dark sense of humour, and shouldn't be punished for that.

 

[jmc]

If he used to say things that make him mortified now, he should delete those tweets. I get it that some people probably keep them in the spirit of “I have nothing to hide and I have changed and grown”, but personally I will choose to delete them.

The problem is they may have already been captured.

 

[Mjölnir]

I know it is and have experienced it.

I'm questioning whether he's pedophile or not. If he is, that's not something I'd want to be supportive of.

So you actually think it's likely that a real pedophile would brag about it on social media?

 

[fan4stic]

You have experienced the Bible? ...so you've read it? You can't otherwise experience a book.

Are you questioning whether he's an actual paedophile though, or whether he just has paedophilic tendencies? In the case of the latter, that implies thoughts but not acts, whereas the former is acting on said thoughts. The latter is classed as a mental disorder.

Regardless, if he's fiddled with kids, then he deserves to be punished just as anyone else would [unless you're of high enough position and/or power and can avoid such things] If he's merely made jokes about the subject though, then he's guilty only of having a slightly dark sense of humour, and shouldn't be punished for that.

You can. But I was talking about the truth, God, His blessings.

I'm not the one in the position to state for certain. But we don't know with 100% certainty that he's not is what I'm saying. It's an uncertain thing.

So you actually think it's likely that a real pedophile would brag about it on social media?

I think it's possible. At the time he might not have been so concerned with it, but now, in a higher profile situation, he might be more careful in how he goes about it.

 

[Flash525]

You can. But I was talking about the truth, God, His blessings.

That's still subjective, as we cannot be 100% certain on any of that, but I suspect we're never going to agree here.

I'm not the one in the position to state for certain. But we don't know with 100% certainty that he's not is what I'm saying. It's an uncertain thing.I think it's possible. At the time he might not have been so concerned with it, but now, in a higher profile situation, he might be more careful in how he goes about it.

Obviously, but then I'd think (if he was guilty) the last thing he'd be doing would be to go on social media and joke about it, thus unintentionally highlighting his guilt. I suspect he's simply attempted to joke about what some define as a serious matter than shouldn't be joked about, and it's come back to bite him in the backside!

 

[Mjölnir]

I think it's possible. At the time he might not have been so concerned with it, but now, in a higher profile situation, he might be more careful in how he goes about it.

The problem for a pedophile wouldn't be the profile of the situation but the law enforcement that works with these kind of things. If pedophiles outed themselves we wouldn't have any issues catching them.

I don't think your scenario makes much sense. Certainly not anywhere remotely close to the alternative explanation which fits with Gunn's life and career back then.

As for not knowing 100%, that's impossible and I could say the same about you (or you about me, etc). Such flimsy speculation just isn't worth bringing up though, especially since it's more offensive to call someone a pedophile than it is to make such jokes.

 

[Dark Raven]

Next thing you know comedians worldwide will be cancelling all their tours for fear of saying the wrong thing.

People just can't take a joke anymore, regardless of whether it's in poor taste or not.

Well, how many times have different people on these forums made jokes about different things and people have thought it was in poor taste or failed to see any humour whatsoever? Even here, where people claim to be able to take jokes and see that something is obviously said in jest, it doesn't always translate and you can't get a read for the tone.

And here there are no limits on the number of characters you can use, unlike Twitter where you can't set the context or explain things as easily. So imagine what it would be like on Twitter.

If someone on these forums made the same jokes that James Gunn did, don't you think people would immediately be offended or asking what is wrong with that person? And don't you think they'd immediately be banned?

 

[Mjölnir]

Well, how many times have different people on these forums made jokes about different things and people have thought it was in poor taste or failed to see any humour whatsoever? Even here, where people claim to be able to take jokes and see that something is obviously said in jest, it doesn't always translate and you can't get a read for the tone.

And here there are no limits on the number of characters you can use, unlike Twitter where you can't set the context or explain things as easily. So imagine what it would be like on Twitter.

If someone on these forums made the same jokes that James Gunn did, don't you think people would immediately be offended or asking what is wrong with that person? And don't you think they'd immediately be banned?

That's not really the same thing. This is a forum run by people that have set up rules for what can be written, and we've agreed to them. Ergo it would be breaking an agreement that you've made to post such things here, and you'd be invading a space where people are to talk about comicbook movies, etc.

If you instead go and read the Twitter page of a creator that's known for being controversial and edgy, as Gunn was back then, then the risk of being offended by anything you read is far more on you for making the choice to go there.

And if you just hear about someone telling jokes that you find disgusting, is it really that rational to feel the need to go out and find the person so you can criticize him, or start making demands that he shouldn't get to keep his job, rather than just think "that guy seems like an idiot" and move on?

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don’t think we ever need to target addicts, current or former (or is that a thing in the US?). Those people need help, not punishment. And ex-convicts actually have served time, so of course they are welcomed back into the society. Gunn has never been (considerably) negatively affected by his tweets until now, and this might be the time (he has never even apologized for those tweets until now). Besides, it isn’t like he is arrested, or he was fired from an R-rated Blumhouse horror movie, he was fired from a PG-13 family oriented Disney movie. All in all, he simply lost a contractual job. He still has his family, friends, fans and other works.

I get that, but you cannot tell me Disney didn't see these tweets before. So they were okay with it when they hired him, and instead of standing by someone who made them over a billion dollars in box office and show him support for the man he has become, they are only now condemning him for past actions they never cared about simply because now it is inconvenient for them. I get the business decision, but the hypocrisy of the firing is also very apparent, and Disney by saying things like these tweets were only just "discovered" say to me they think I am stupid and trying to paint themselves as victims. They're not. Every company like this looks into the social media of future employees. Alan Horn is lying by saying they didn't know about this. James Gunn may get into political debates, but he has not done any immature crap like he was doing in the past on his Twitter. Clearly he grew up.

As I think about this topic more, the more his firing troubles me.

 

[Flash525]

The problem for a pedophile wouldn't be the profile of the situation but the law enforcement that works with these kind of things. If pedophiles outed themselves we wouldn't have any issues catching them.

I think there's a slight misconception on the definition of a Pedophile; the title applies to anyone who has impure thoughts towards children, regardless of whether they've acted on them.

As daft as it may sound, you can be an innocent paedophile; it's no different from a heterosexual man desiring to have sex with an attractive woman, but not raping her.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well, how many times have different people on these forums made jokes about different things and people have thought it was in poor taste or failed to see any humour whatsoever? Even here, where people claim to be able to take jokes and see that something is obviously said in jest, it doesn't always translate and you can't get a read for the tone.

And here there are no limits on the number of characters you can use, unlike Twitter where you can't set the context or explain things as easily. So imagine what it would be like on Twitter.

If someone on these forums made the same jokes that James Gunn did, don't you think people would immediately be offended or asking what is wrong with that person? And don't you think they'd immediately be banned?

Here is where that comparison falls flat for me: James Gunn isn't fired for anything he did after Disney hired him. So your example is more you're a member of a different forum than here before you joined and you made those type of comments on that forum before you joined our forum, so we ban you for what you said on the other forum. Is that right? Like a FB post you made 10 years ago gets you banned on SHH? That is not something I agree with.

 

[Ozbridge]

The problem is they may have already been captured.

They may or may not have been captured, but he could totally have looked at the James Gunn situation and remembered that he used to tweet something inappropriate. Whether someone has made screenshots of his tweets or not, he could have deleted those tweets because he feels they no longer reflect the person he is now and the company he represents. The screenshots might surface somehow, but it might be not in his conscience to keep them on his account.

I get that, but you cannot tell me Disney didn't see these tweets before. So they were okay with it when they hired him, and instead of standing by someone who made them over a billion dollars in box office and show him support for the man he has become, they are only now condemning him for past actions they never cared about simply because now it is inconvenient for them. I get the business decision, but the hypocrisy of the firing is also very apparent, and Disney by saying things like these tweets were only just "discovered" say to me they think I am stupid and trying to paint themselves as victims. They're not. Every company like this looks into the social media of future employees. Alan Horn is lying by saying they didn't know about this. James Gunn may get into political debates, but he has not done any immature crap like he was doing in the past on his Twitter. Clearly he grew up.

As I think about this topic more, the more his firing troubles me.

Oh I totally get this. This decision is either to (1) avoid a media backlash, aka a business, not ethical, decision (fear of the conservatives/ the people approving the Fox deal going “Why you removed Trump supporter so quick but doesn’t act when Trump basher did the same”, even though the 2 situations aren’t the same, PLUS Disney produces children movies and these “jokes” targeting children, i.e. the most fragile, vulnerable beings) or (2) Gunn confessed/ Disney discovered something far worse and needs to severe ties with him quickly,

 

[Flash525]

Well, how many times have different people on these forums made jokes about different things and people have thought it was in poor taste or failed to see any humour whatsoever? Even here, where people claim to be able to take jokes and see that something is obviously said in jest, it doesn't always translate and you can't get a read for the tone.

The core difference, is that here, ones livelihood isn't on the line, in any case, if someone makes a poor (or seriously offensive) joke here they're told about it, maybe warned, and the comment deleted. Twitter generally doesn't have that level of moderation.

If someone on these forums made the same jokes that James Gunn did, don't you think people would immediately be offended or asking what is wrong with that person? And don't you think they'd immediately be banned?

There are probably some people who thought Gunn's comments were funny; everyone has a slightly different sense of humour.

How many Madeline McCann jokes have you read about or heard about? How controversial are those these days?

 

[Mjölnir]

I think there's a slight misconception on the definition of a Pedophile; the title applies to anyone who has impure thoughts towards children, regardless of whether they've acted on them.

As daft as it may sound, you can be an innocent paedophile; it's no different from a heterosexual man desiring to have sex with an attractive woman, but not raping her.

You're of course right that you could have tendencies but never act on them, nor acquire/view any material depicting such things, but I wouldn't say that such a thing is even worth discussing. Then we're really getting into accusing people of something with an enormous social stigma (which it has for good reason) with no basis in anything but wild guesses, and I'd say that's way more offensive than making jokes about the subject.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

can we please shut down the 'Is Gunn a pedophile?' speculation? Because that's exactly what the Breitbart/Infowars scum wants us to talk about. Gunn was one of the faces of Troma, befor he was one of the faces of Marvel and it was part of his job to be distasteful and provocative to represent the image of the studio. He also was sexually abused at a very young age, so it made sense to him to make jokes about exactly that subject. So let's not fall in the same trap that Horn did