Do You Believe In Evolution?

[Magenta666]

I can settle for this particular God because as Jesus presented him, his demands on me are light and for the most part sensical. I have no problem being nice to other people and sharing. I have no problem with needing to think twice before I say or take something. It's about restraint and thinking about someone else for a change. It is not difficult. I really don't see the big harm to myself in following him. Now God as the churches present him is another matter.....

i agree completely with your view of God and i wish more people interpreted the Bible as such, im not trying to dissuade you from believing in God. just defending my own skepticism.

 

[squeekness]

Once again, I do think you have a healthy grasp on religion, and I definitely feel you to be a good person... But isn't it slightly arrogant to say that billions of people beforehand had it wrong?

Sacrifices might seem silly, yet a lot of Christians think if they get on their knees and pray, they might get answered. That isn't you, and although I much prefer your way of worship then others because it is much less threatening, you still feel your way is better then that of others. When there is no guidelines.

There are probably a million different ways in which people chose to interpret the Bible, some the literalist ways of MovieFan2k4 to your much more moderate ways... But there isn't anything anyone can really agree on, and that sort of discredits the whole thing for me.

Well, religion is an evolutionary process just like the flesh. I think that over time, we did our best to understand our Creator and so over time our view of him changed. Those earlier civilizations might not have been ready to understand him as we do now. We are getting smarter and more civilized (?) perhaps as we move through the ages. A thousand years from now our understanding of him might be even more different.

 

[squeekness]

i agree completely with your view of God and i wish more people interpreted the Bible as such, im not trying to dissuade you from believing in God. just defending my own skepticism.

You are free to think as you like. It is not my purpose to covert anyone, I am simply stating my postions on things.

 

[Magenta666]

You are free to think as you like. It is not my purpose to covert anyone, I am simply stating my postions on things.

understood

but my mind keeps wandering back to the whole "if im wrong i burn in hell" if God is so benevolent how can he condem millions to an eternity of punishment?

 

[Majic Walrus]

Not very far from what evolutionists do every day. The only main difference is that they have the backing of the federal government, whereas many creationists don't.

You're right, it is...for people who've been raised in a time where, often enough, the most highly-trusted source of knowledge is the human intellect. For some odd reason, people can admit our race is capable of being wrong, but they have trouble believing many of us are wrong.

I think the main issue isn't even a scientific one; it's spiritual in nature. People will make up alomst any excuse to protect themselves from God and His Word...because admitting they're wrong takes humility, and also places them under God's divine authority. They don't want to acknowledge God as their creator, because it makes them immediately accountable to Him for everything they've ever thought, said, or done...and that's not always an easy place to be.

People will make up almost anything to be able to pass the blame to someone else? Would they even go so far to create a religion, and a God, to prevent themselves from being wrong?

I think the main issue is a spiritual issue. The issue is that if we make the truth vague enough, far out enough, nonsensical enough so that you must have faith to believe it. When that happens you've always got a truth that cannot be proven, or disproven outside of the realm of the spiritual. You're putting all your eggs in a god-basket and believing (real hard) that it's the truth.

I suppose if you make truth unquantifiable and unqualifiable then it's very very easy to be right.

 

[Magenta666]

People will make up almost anything to be able to pass the blame to someone else? Would they even go so far to create a religion, and a God, to prevent themselves from being wrong?

I think the main issue is a spiritual issue. The issue is that if we make the truth vague enough, far out enough, nonsensical enough so that you must have faith to believe it. When that happens you've always got a truth that cannot be proven, or disproven outside of the realm of the spiritual. You're putting all your eggs in a god-basket and believing (real hard) that it's the truth.

I suppose if you make truth unquantifiable and unqualifiable then it's very very easy to be right.

so your not a believer in truths relativity?

 

[Moviefan2k4]

but wouldnt it be far easier to just admit there is a God then?

Not necessarily, because by default our flesh wants nothing to do with God. Our spirit lives in a fallen, corruptible vessel, which is persistently trying to decieve us in numerous ways. the world system doesn't makes this any easier, constantly churning out new "anti-God" theories and statements on a near-daily basis.

If we're wrong, and there is no God then nothing happens, but if there is one and we dont believe in Him then we burn in hell?

Yes, but not because He is hateful or spiteful. God is holy, just, and righteous, even as much as He is loving. Because of that, He cannot allow anyone into His kingdom unless they accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. See, that sacrifice at Calvary has washed away the sinful nature of all who choose to embrace it, and provided them with a reconciliation to God after their body dies. Their souls are no longer condemned, because they've humbled themselves and accepted what God did to save them. God offers this free and clear; we can't earn it from Him, no matter what we do or how "good" we are...it's not enough, because His standard is perfection, and our flesh is fallen. We can't pay the price His justice requires, but we can accept that Jesus did it for us, and recieve it by faith.

 

[Bubonic]

Well, religion is an evolutionary process just like the flesh. I think that over time, we did our best to understand our Creator and so over time our view of him changed. Those earlier civilizations might not have been ready to understand him as we do now. We are getting smarter and more civilized (?) perhaps as we move through the ages. A thousand years from now our understanding of him might be even more different.

That is a good point, religion is an evolving mechanism, as I said before belief usually reflected how the groups that worshipped them were organized.

I think you'll find that our understand of "him" in a thousand of years might very well be derived from the findings of science at that time. No system has tried as hard and efficiently to find the truth.

Science definitely has a secular approach, and there certainly be some irony if they eventually found out the origins of life where of some mystical nature... But I doubt it would reflect the assumptions taken by Christianity, Scientology, Totemism, or whatever other belief system that has come about so far.

Because all these were man-made assumptions that were developed in a very rudimentary way and once they get stuck on an idea then they don't really permit the chain of thought from truly expanding.

Science thrives on proving itself wrong, starting again from scratch, continuously bettering their results instead of settling on stagnant assumptions and propagating them for millenniums.

 

[Magenta666]

Not necessarily, because by default our flesh wants nothing to do with God. Our spirit lives in a fallen, corruptible vessel, which is persistently trying to decieve us in numerous ways. the world system doesn't makes this any easier, constantly churning out new "anti-God" theories and statements on a near-daily basis.

that is completely untrue, there are many people who "believe" in God as a safe guard...it is much much easier to have a "scapegoat God" as a way of blaming everything on and using as a direction for life than to not believe in a higher power and choosing your own morals and path in life

Yes, but not because He is hateful or spiteful. God is holy, just, and righteous, even as much as He is loving. Because of that, He cannot allow anyone into His kingdom unless they accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. See, that sacrifice at Calvary has washed away the sinful nature of all who choose to embrace it, and provided them with a reconciliation to God after their body dies. Their souls are no longer condemned, because they've humbled themselves and accepted what God did to save them. God offers this free and clear; we can't earn it from Him, no matter what we do or how "good" we are...it's not enough, because His standard is perfection, and our flesh is fallen. We can't pay the price His justice requires, but we can accept that Jesus did it for us, and recieve it by faith.

i dont understand how because he is loving i am cast into the fiery pits of hell.

i dont understand how Jesus dying for our sins gives us the key to heaven, we (as a society) certainly dont appreciate it or we would all be Christians. It was certainly a great great sacrifice on Jesus' part, but makes no sense why that pardons us.

Its not a choice if the choice is "my way or the highway" and what gives God the right to decide for us? If you say its because hes infallible, how do we know that? Because God tells us he is? Why do we know that hes right? Because he is infallible....i am sorry personally i cannot accept that.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

I dont understand how because he is loving i am cast into the fiery pits of hell.

It's quite simple, really. Human beings are incapable of avoiding sin strictly by their own willpower. God created us to need Him, among other reasons. All God ever wanted was a family that would choose to love, honor, and obey Him because they wanted to, not out of fear.

I dont understand how Jesus dying for our sins gives us the key to heaven, we (as a society) certainly dont appreciate it or we would all be Christians. It was certainly a great great sacrifice on Jesus' part, but makes no sense why that pardons us.

Sure, it does. Sin requires punishment, with no exceptions. Scripture makes it very clear, multiple times: "the wages of sin is death". Disobedience led Adam & Eve to spiritually die at the Fall, and eventually they physically died as well. As their descendants, we are bound to that. God loves us incredibly, so much that He sent His only Son to take our penalty upon Himself. Jesus was brutally and bloodily murdered by humans, even though He'd never done a sinful thing in His whole life. He was sent to be the blood sacrifice for our weaknesses, so that through Him we could be reconciled. He took upon Himself that which we all rightfully deserve.

...what gives God the right to decide for us?

He created us, which means He has the final say. His authority is above everything, and it will be enforced in full someday, whether we like it or not.

If you say its because hes infallible, how do we know that? Because God tells us he is? Why do we know that hes right?

An entirely perfect being cannot lie; as such, whatever God says is truth.

Because he is infallible....i am sorry personally i cannot accept that.

That is your choice, just as others have theirs...and God will respect it. He will not force those who truly wish for separation to endure His kingdom for all eternity.

 

[Bubonic]

It's quite simple, really. Human beings are incapable of avoiding sin strictly by their own willpower. God created us to need Him, among other reasons. All God ever wanted was a family that would choose to love, honor, and obey Him because they wanted to, not out of fear.

What a sad, needy, imperfect God you have there.

He created us, which means He has the final say. His authority is above everything, and it will be enforced in full someday, whether we like it or not.

I've heard of many abusive fathers who use this line of reasoning "I brought you into this world, and by God I'll take you out of it!"

An entirely perfect being cannot lie; as such, whatever God says is truth.

Obviously he isn't entirely perfect if he is such a jealous and petty being. If he was so perfect he wouldn't of created us just so he'd have people to need him, you make him sound like trailer trash preteens who get pregnant so they can have a baby.

That is your choice, just as others have theirs...and God will respect it. He will not force those who truly wish for separation to endure His kingdom for all eternity.

He'll respect it. And cast you into the flames of hell where you will suffer for all of eternity, got it

 

[chaseter]

So dinosaurs were still alive 4,000 years ago. How cool is that?




haaahhahahahahahhaaahhaha!

You have activated this:

 

[chaseter]

Yep, like so...

Adam was 130 when Seth was born, and lived to the age of 930. (Gen. 5:3-5)

Seth was 105 when Enosh was born, and lived to the age of 912. (Gen. 5:6-8)

Enosh was 90 when Kenan was born, and lived to the age of 905. (Gen. 5:9-11)

Kenan was 70 when Mahalel was born, and lived to the age of 910 (Gen. 5:12-14)

That's just 4 generations right there, and the list keeps on going.

Why don't we live to be this old today then? Care to explain that?

 

[Magenta666]

What a sad, needy, imperfect God you have there.

oh god i loled...i loled hard

(and if were going to go the raptor jesus way)

 

[chaseter]

Not very far from what evolutionists do every day. The only main difference is that they have the backing of the federal government, whereas many creationists don't.

You're right, it is...for people who've been raised in a time where, often enough, the most highly-trusted source of knowledge is the human intellect. For some odd reason, people can admit our race is capable of being wrong, but they have trouble believing many of us are wrong.

I think the main issue isn't even a scientific one; it's spiritual in nature. People will make up alomst any excuse to protect themselves from God and His Word...because admitting they're wrong takes humility, and also places them under God's divine authority. They don't want to acknowledge God as their creator, because it makes them immediately accountable to Him for everything they've ever thought, said, or done...and that's not always an easy place to be.

Everyone thought the world was flat. That was far to easy of an explanation at one point. Everyone thought the world was the center of the Universe (which oddly it is mentioned in the Bible that it is), and that was far to easy of an explanation. The Church even prosecuted scientists who had different beliefs like our good friend Galileo, condemning him for having different ideals, correct ideals to be ironically factual. The list goes on and on between Religion fighting Science and Science winning. Now we are at the point of evolution. Religious leaders say it doesn't exist but scientists say it does. Now with the previous track record...all it will take is time before science slaps them in the face and they realize that they were wrong.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Why don't we live to be this old today then? Care to explain that?

No problem; just take a look at Genesis 6:3...

Then God said, "I'm not going to breathe life into men and women endlessly. Eventually they're going to die; from now on they can expect a life span of 120 years." (The Message)

At that time in history, mankind had become consumed by evil, so God limited our lifespan to 120 years at maximum. The reasoning behind this is quite simple: with less time to live, individuals wouldn't be able to spread evil so rapidly upon the Earth. Slowly, humanity's longevit shortened, until it settled off right where God said it would. The oldest person in recent history died a couple years ago at the age of 119.

 

[Majic Walrus]

so your not a believer in truths relativity?

Truth is not relative. Truth is absolute. That's why they call it truth.

I'm not saying that I know it, I'm just saying that there is one.

 

[Magenta666]

Truth is not relative. Truth is absolute. That's why they call it truth.

I'm not saying that I know it, I'm just saying that there is one.

but if you know it how do you know there is one?

 

[ih8nyy]

 

[chaseter]

No problem; just take a look at Genesis 6:3...

Then God said, "I'm not going to breathe life into men and women endlessly. Eventually they're going to die; from now on they can expect a life span of 120 years." (The Message)

At that time in history, mankind had become consumed by evil, so God limited our lifespan to 120 years at maximum. The reasoning behind this is quite simple: with less time to live, individuals wouldn't be able to spread evil so rapidly upon the Earth. Slowly, humanity's longevit shortened, until it settled off right where God said it would. The oldest person in recent history died a couple years ago at the age of 119.

May I have the actual verse and not from someone's book?

 

[Darthphere]

No problem; just take a look at Genesis 6:3...

Then God said, "I'm not going to breathe life into men and women endlessly. Eventually they're going to die; from now on they can expect a life span of 120 years." (The Message)

At that time in history, mankind had become consumed by evil, so God limited our lifespan to 120 years at maximum. The reasoning behind this is quite simple: with less time to live, individuals wouldn't be able to spread evil so rapidly upon the Earth. Slowly, humanity's longevit shortened, until it settled off right where God said it would. The oldest person in recent history died a couple years ago at the age of 119.

What the **** where did you get that?

 

[Carcharodon]

No problem; just take a look at Genesis 6:3...

Then God said, "I'm not going to breathe life into men and women endlessly. Eventually they're going to die; from now on they can expect a life span of 120 years." (The Message)

At that time in history, mankind had become consumed by evil, so God limited our lifespan to 120 years at maximum. The reasoning behind this is quite simple: with less time to live, individuals wouldn't be able to spread evil so rapidly upon the Earth. Slowly, humanity's longevit shortened, until it settled off right where God said it would. The oldest person in recent history died a couple years ago at the age of 119.

The oldest person ever verified lived to be 122 years, 164 days old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people

You really make this way too easy.

 

[chaseter]

That means they had an extra 2 years and 164 days to spread evil!

 

[Darthphere]

The oldest person ever verified lived to be 122 years, 164 days old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people

You really make this way too easy.

They used carbon dating.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

May I have the actual verse and not from someone's book?

You have some sort of clash with the Message version? Fine; here's the same thing, in the King James no less...

"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."