Do You Believe In Evolution?

[dark_b]

Not as easy as you might think. The water of Loch Ness is so dark at its depths that our brightest electric light would only illuminate a couple of feet in front of us.

we have footage of the sun and all of the amazing things. they are now experimenting with 3D x-rays. amazing stuff. but they can not know if in a river there is a BIG monster?
i am not even saying that its 100% not true. its always interesting to watch DOC about big foot,alien,......

 

[Moviefan2k4]

So, until God said that incest was wrong it was not a sin?

Correct.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

But how would people have know it was incest and not God punishing them?

Because after the first few generations, God gave them the Law against incest. In those post-Flood days, people likely trusted God more often on certain things, compared with the way we are today. They knew that His power and authority were not to be trifled with.

No response to my first point about the evidence of evolution vs evidence of creationism? Didn't think so.

The created is evidence for the Creator; people have just chosen to ignore it, in favor of their own opinion.

 

[dark_b]

Correct.

its just not right that you agree with him.
thats like our parents telling us what is wrong and the next day change it . it confuses the kid and it makes no sense.

again to evolution: go read on WIKI what it means. we changed through years. thats a fact.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Because after the first few generations, God gave them the Law against incest. In those post-Flood days, people likely trusted God more often on certain things, compared with the way we are today. They knew that His power and authority were not to be trifled with.

Now you're just making assumptions.

The created is evidence for the Creator; people have just chosen to ignore it, in favor of their own opinion.

That's far too simple of an explanation.

 

[Carcharodon]

Whenever people start talking about carbon or radiometric dating, I immediately start filtering such things out. When will people realize that most of our current methods for the dating of ancient objects are poorly-educated guesses at best, and outright blasphemy at worst?

Do you even have the foggiest idea how radiometric dating works? Something tells me the answer is a resounding, "NO."

 

[knowsbleed]

Whenever people start talking about carbon or radiometric dating, I immediately start filtering such things out. When will people realize that most of our current methods for the dating of ancient objects are poorly-educated guesses at best, and outright blasphemy at worst?

Sounds exactly like what you're doing right now.

 

[Carcharodon]

Then folks should quit teaching evolution as if it were fact, when it's not. If they're going to mention it as a possible explanation, then they should give equal time to a Biblical interpretation.

No, they shouldn't. If they do that, then they have to give equal time to the interpretations of ALL religions and beliefs.

Furthermore, creationism is not science, and therefore has no place alongside evolution in classes. If these people really want to learn about religion so badly, there's a place to do it....and it sure as **** isn't public school.

 

[Bubonic]

Who is the more Trollish... the Troll or the members who feed the troll?

I hope you are not accusing me of feeding the troll.
In fact I have resorted to using tired 4chan memes because I find it more amusing then wasting my time trying to come up with a well thought out retort to MovieFan2k4 gobbledygook.

He didn't even reply to my last serious attempt, and even though I might be too petty to take the time, I wouldn't call those who are trying to show him how wrong he is trolls.

I do hope they realize they are wasting their time, but at least it gives them the opportunity to freshen up on their research and understand the inner workings of a literalist.

What I find to be a shame is that he has basically hijacked the thread, once again like he does with anything of a similar tone and prevents us from discussing with much more moderate Christians because the dribble he spews is just too offensive to anyone mildly intellectual for them to ignore it.

So no progress is made.

 

[squeekness]

I am a moderate Christian and I haven't jumped in much because what is going on is a argument between the Evolution supporters and a Biblical literalist. I am not a literalist so there hasn't been much of anything for me to say. I believe in God but also think the theory of evolution is valid and correct. What you guys have been arguing about these past couple pages really has nothing to do with me....

 

[Carcharodon]

Um...thanks for letting us know?

 

[squeekness]

Moderate Christians may have different reasons for not chiming in. That was mine.

 

[Bubonic]

I am a moderate Christian and I haven't jumped in much because what is going on is a argument between the Evolution supporters and a Biblical literalist. I am not a literalist so there hasn't been much of anything for me to say. I believe in God but also think the theory of evolution is valid and correct. What you guys have been arguing about these past couple pages really has nothing to do with me....

That's the thing, the type of things he goes on about is so distracting it takes away from everything else!

So I guess you understand evolution as valid in correct inasmuch as it functions within God's web of life or whatnot?

How do you personal understand/interpret God?
I personally find it hard to subscribe to any one God considering the Earth is very old and a common thread in humanity is to try to make sense of the world they live in, as long as there have been people there has been systems of beliefs.

Depending on the type of society, whether it be a tribe, a chiefdom, or huge structured societies, the type of God's we have believed in have been different.

So I just can't understand how we can say that God is more absolute then Zeus and his pantheon, or superior to ancient Native American creation myths concerning a dude on a Turtles back creating life to amuse himself.

 

[squeekness]

That's the thing, the type of things he goes on about is so distracting it takes away from everything else!

So I guess you understand evolution as valid in correct inasmuch as it functions within God's web of life or whatnot?

That would be correct, yes.

How do you personal understand/interpret God?
I personally find it hard to subscribe to any one God considering the Earth is very old and a common thread in humanity is to try to make sense of the world they live in, as long as there have been people there has been systems of beliefs.

I think of him as a sort of Father, mostly benevolent in nature.

I think the Bible is written by a bunch of humans trying to figure him out, that is why the stories are so different from one another and contradict themselves sometimes.

I think God made the universe and everything in it though I am not entirely certain why. I think he wants to be recognized and appreciated for what he has done for us. I think he wants us to be as kind and generous to others as he has been to us. I am uncertain as to his level of personal involvement in our lives. I think we have enough free will to screw up as much as we want or make things better.

I have strong doubts that he condones any kind of war and actual fighting. That he has done so in the Bible, I think, is because the winners claim he did, not necessarily because he actually did. Why would he call for the death of women and babies when they are his creations as well? I think the winners justified their bad behavior by saying God said it was okay when he probably didn't.

I believe he came to earth in the form of the man Jesus Christ because he wanted us to be better people. I think he may have used people to further spread his word so that more may believe in him, such as Muhammad. He wants to reach as many of us as he can. I think there are many roads to God.

 

[Bubonic]

^Well you have a much healthier interpretation of the book then some do that is for sure!

But do you think the myriad of religions that predate Christianity were just scratching the surface, but Judaism, Christianity and Islam came closer to the "truth" then what preceded them?

I'm going a bit off topic, but I don't see why it makes more sense for God as you understand him/her/it to be the one responsible for triggering evolution moreso then Wotan, Waaq or Gitche Manitou?

 

[Majic Walrus]

only in some of them it says that at the age of whatever some one had a son.

you don't need to make bad arguements to make this stuff look silly.

The argument is sound. Geneologies are not an accurate method of determining the entire history of the Earth. The geneologies don't all have ages and there's nothing that says that they are complete geneologies of the entire Earth's history.

James Ussher calculated the date of creation as being October 23rd, 4004 BC. A Saturday at 6:00 PM. (The Annals of the World by James Ussher)

Obviously to calculate this date is used several supposed dates and assumed several dates. This doesn't even begin to talk of the fact that geneologies aren't continuous and that we have no concept of the time between these so called "gaps".

But you are correct. You don't need to use anything for it to be apparent how silly a 6,000 year old earth is. It's one level above flat and one level below geo-centric solar systems.

 

[squeekness]

^Well you have a much healthier interpretation of the book then some do that is for sure!

But do you think the myriad of religions that predate Christianity were just scratching the surface, but Judaism, Christianity and Islam came closer to the "truth" then what preceded them?

I'm going a bit off topic, but I don't see why it makes more sense for God as you understand him/her/it to be the one responsible for triggering evolution moreso then Wotan, Waaq or Gitche Manitou?

I think I find it easier for God to be a single entity than a whole pantheon of folks who bicker and act far too human. Some of the Greek mythology really comes off as kinda silly to me. In those days, it was thought that if you gave those Gods a gift or an offering, you could make them do what you want. The human was a bit more in control of them than they were of us.

The one God however, does as he sees fit, and we cannot make him do anything he doesn't want to already. Some folks see him as being more bad, a punishing God and all that, but not me. I think he genuinely cares about us and gives us a good home. He just wants us to be good stewards of it and ourselves. I think all evil comes from us, not from him, he just hopes we learn enough from it that we will soon abandon these bad ways. He tries to interfere as little as possible because he wants us to do it, and to learn, not him doing it all for us. We wouldn't grow that way.

 

[Magenta666]

I think God made the universe and everything in it though I am not entirely certain why. I think he wants to be recognized and appreciated for what he has done for us. I think he wants us to be as kind and generous to others as he has been to us. I am uncertain as to his level of personal involvement in our lives. I think we have enough free will to screw up as much as we want or make things better.

I have strong doubts that he condones any kind of war and actual fighting. That he has done so in the Bible, I think, is because the winners claim he did, not necessarily because he actually did. Why would he call for the death of women and babies when they are his creations as well? I think the winners justified their bad behavior by saying God said it was okay when he probably didn't.

I believe he came to earth in the form of the man Jesus Christ because he wanted us to be better people. I think he may have used people to further spread his word so that more may believe in him, such as Muhammad. He wants to reach as many of us as he can. I think there are many roads to God.

but then who made God?

 

[squeekness]

but then who made God?

I have no clue. His own God maybe? Not having an answer to the question doesn't make me stumble. Perhaps we may learn that, perhaps not. I worry more about my own life and how I can make it better and the life of others better. The only God I have to concern myself with is the one who made me, not the one who made him.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Now you're just making assumptions.

Not very far from what evolutionists do every day. The only main difference is that they have the backing of the federal government, whereas many creationists don't.

That's far too simple of an explanation.

You're right, it is...for people who've been raised in a time where, often enough, the most highly-trusted source of knowledge is the human intellect. For some odd reason, people can admit our race is capable of being wrong, but they have trouble believing many of us are wrong.

I think the main issue isn't even a scientific one; it's spiritual in nature. People will make up alomst any excuse to protect themselves from God and His Word...because admitting they're wrong takes humility, and also places them under God's divine authority. They don't want to acknowledge God as their creator, because it makes them immediately accountable to Him for everything they've ever thought, said, or done...and that's not always an easy place to be.

 

[Magenta666]

I have no clue. His own God maybe? Not having an answer to the question doesn't make me stumble. Perhaps we may learn that, perhaps not. I worry more about my own life and how I can make it better and the life of others better. The only God I have to concern myself with is the one who made me, not the one who made him.

true but in the basic cause/effect view of the world, why do we need a God for creation? why dont we just have the universe creating itself?

why are you happy with settling with that particular God?

 

[Moviefan2k4]

but then who made God?

To imply that God was created at some distant pre-Earth time would be the same as saying He isn't all-powerful. God is not bound by space, matter, or time, as we are. He has no beginning and no end, for He is the embodiment of both. He created everything. He has always existed, and He always will.

 

[squeekness]

true but in the basic cause/effect view of the world, why do we need a God for creation? why dont we just have the universe creating itself?

why can are you happy with settling with that particular God?

I can settle for this particular God because as Jesus presented him, his demands on me are light and for the most part sensical. I have no problem being nice to other people and sharing. I have no problem with needing to think twice before I say or take something. It's about restraint and thinking about someone else for a change. It is not difficult. I really don't see the big harm to myself in following him. Now God as the churches present him is another matter.....

 

[Magenta666]

You're right, it is...for people who've been raised in a time where, often enough, the most highly-trusted source of knowledge is the human intellect. For some odd reason, people can admit our race is capable of being wrong, but they have trouble believing many of us are wrong.

I think the main issue isn't even a scientific one; it's spiritual in nature. People will make up alomst any excuse to protect themselves from God and His Word...because admitting they're wrong takes humility, and also places them under God's divine authority. They don't want to acknowledge God as their creator, because it makes them immediately accountable to Him for everything they've ever thought, said, or done...and that's not always an easy place to be.

but wouldnt it be far easier to just admit there is a God then? if were wrong, and there is no God then nothing happens, but if there is one and we dont believe in Him then we burn in hell? By the theory of Ockhams razor shouldnt we all just believe in a God because it is easier?

 

[Bubonic]

I think I find it easier for God to be a single entity than a whole pantheon of folks who bicker and act far too human. Some of the Greek mythology really comes off as kinda silly to me. In those days, it was thought that if you gave those Gods a gift or an offering, you could make them do what you want. The human was a bit more in control of them than they were of us.

The one God however, does as he sees fit, and we cannot make him do anything he doesn't want to already. Some folks see him as being more bad, a punishing God and all that, but not me. I think he genuinely cares about us and gives us a good home. He just wants us to be good stewards of it and ourselves. I think all evil comes from us, not from him, he just hopes we learn enough from it that we will soon abandon these bad ways. He tries to interfere as little as possible because he wants us to do it, and to learn, not him doing it all for us. We wouldn't grow that way.

Once again, I do think you have a healthy grasp on religion, and I definitely feel you to be a good person... But isn't it slightly arrogant to say that billions of people beforehand had it wrong?

Sacrifices might seem silly, yet a lot of Christians think if they get on their knees and pray, they might get answered. That isn't you, and although I much prefer your way of worship then others because it is much less threatening, you still feel your way is better then that of others. When there is no guidelines.

There are probably a million different ways in which people chose to interpret the Bible, some the literalist ways of MovieFan2k4 to your much more moderate ways... But there isn't anything anyone can really agree on, and that sort of discredits the whole thing for me.