Do you believe there are socialists in Washington?

[The Major]

Um no.
Everyone is so wrapped up in iraq.,..I don't think anyone is trully paying attention.

By Obama's plan, I am probably getting a tax cut....for a year...but then it will have to go back up...I just think Obama is full of it and don't trust a damn thing coming out of his mouth. He is a socialist...lets admit it a move on.

For that to happen the Republicans would have to convince Democrats he's really a socialist. They'll have to do better then they have been for that to occur.

 

[StorminNorman]

Bush spent like there was no tomorrow. He got a free pass because because he lowered taxes on the rich instead of raising them.

I am not sure if people just choose to re-write history, or simply rely on a distorted, incorrect re-telling of it.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

The term socialism was thrown around a lot during the McCain/Palin campaign. It was a good scare tactic to use to convince people that because Obama supported a decrease in taxes for the middle class by raising them for the rich, that he was acting like a man who wanted to take over all private corporations and institutions and put everything under government control---like Stalin and Hitler. Soon afterward, people were comparing Obama's speeches to Hitlers. Then they started stock piling guns because the NRA started a campaign warning that Obama would take away your guns---like Pol Pot.

That's what "socialism" means to right wing conservatives. Am I right?

Just about, yeah. To anyone with more than just a brainstem, though, I think it's just more disagreeing with his plans, either on an ideological level, or doubting that it would actually work.

Socialism isn't that bad.

I think the closet fascists in Washington are much greater threat to freedom and American ideals. Higher taxes on the rich to increase health care benefits and education is not a threat to freedom.

The red scare in Washington is just the republicans using fear tactics yet again to discredit the president's policies.

Bush spent like there was no tomorrow. He got a free pass because because he lowered taxes on the rich instead of raising them. So as long as you spend without taxing the rich it's ok to spend like crazy. Who cares if if doing so boost the deficit and indebted your grandchildren? As long as you don't tax the rich it's ok to overspend.

That's no better than socialism. In fact it's worst.

I believe the old saying goes that, the more that one is to the left or the right, the more alike they are to their counterpart.

I am not sure if people just choose to re-write history, or simply rely on a distorted, incorrect re-telling of it.

Anyone who writes a bill to spend a billion dollars to just to say to kids in school "Don't f**k or the Devil'll get ya," is an incompetant who spends money like a drunken sailor. Period.

 

[The Major]

I am not sure if people just choose to re-write history, or simply rely on a distorted, incorrect re-telling of it.

Are you saying you believe Bush lowered taxes for the rich or think others who believe he didn't do it are revising history?

 

[DACrowe]

Bachus is right. He has a list of 17 members in Congress who are socialist, but he will not reveal them...yet. I think he should form a special Congressional Committee to investigate these no good Socies and also while he is at it, investigate all those who pollute our minds with their socialist propoganda. There has got to be a lot of socialists in Hollywood. It is time to smoke them out and compile lists. If they don't comply let's black ball the bastards!

Yay, this sounds like a great idea. After all if you disagree with Bachus you have got to be a Socialist. And I think we should look back historically at these punks who have been treading on us since Edward R. Murrow.







(that was sarcasm).

 

[DACrowe]

Um no.
Everyone is so wrapped up in iraq.,..I don't think anyone is trully paying attention.

really? I tend to remember many in the minority saying that "cutting taxes while at war is asinine" and many arguing why Bush's economic argument on everything was tax cuts. We are in a surplus at the beginning of his tenure with a slight recession? Tax cuts. We are in a meek expansion, but we are now in huge amounts of debt and are about to go to war? Tax cuts. We are in middle of a hugely expensive war, the deficit has never been higher and we are possibly headed towards another recession? Tax cuts.

Even take the opposition party now, what is their grand suggestion in counter to Obama's "socialism?" A spending freeze (because that worked SO WELL at the start of the Great Depression) and...tax cuts.

They're a party that has always been about protecting and helping the wealthiest Americans and hoping that supply side economics will somehow magically trickle it down, despite it historically never working that way. They knew we were at a war and cutting taxes just increases the debt our grandchildren will pay, but as long as the top private businesses and investors (and campaign contributors) are protected, they didn't care. ****, even in the face of another depression they are still saying the same thing, they just added a spending freeze on it....which has proven to be a great idea in the past.

I don't know if Obama's plans will work, but in theory I agree with the broad jist of it and hope it does. In any case, I know Obama is not a socialist. Succeed or fail he is not trying to turn us into a socialist state. He is trying to save capitalism from itself, like FDR did 70 years ago.

 

[Malice]

I dont see how spending us into massive debt will assist us....

 

[Cosmic]

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/04/09/rep-bachus-17-house-members-are-socialists/

Rep. Spencer Bachus (R-Ala.) puts the number of socialists in the House at 17.

"Some of the men and women I work with in Congress are socialists," Bachus told local government leaders on Thursday, according to the Birmingham News.

Bachus gave the specific number of House socialists when pressed later by a reporter.

He made the comments during a breakfast in Birmingham in which he praised President Obama. Bachus said that Obama is a better listener than President Bush, but that Obama was being steered to the left by Congress.

"He tries to get ideas from people," Bachus said. He added that he has "some hope" for the new president.

Bachus, the top Republican on the House Financial Services Committee, actually voted for last fall's bank bailout that other Republicans had opposed and criticized as socialism. Bachus, however, has been critical of the way the bailout has been conducted and has called on the Treasury Department to be more transparent in how they make decisions.

This is just more McCarthy-type fearmongering BS from the right wing. For a lot of people, the word "socalist" still has a strong connotation linking it to the history of Soviet communism, and (mistakenly) Nazi fascism, among other things.

I want to see the list. And I want to hear him justify it. I think this guy is acting like a coward...making a claim like this without backing it up with anything.

 

[StorminNorman]

Anyone who writes a bill to spend a billion dollars to just to say to kids in school "Don't f**k or the Devil'll get ya," is an incompetant who spends money like a drunken sailor. Period.

Find a bill that states that. Also, that has nothing to do with what I was saying.

Are you saying you believe Bush lowered taxes for the rich or think others who believe he didn't do it are revising history?

No. I am saying that people acting as if no one complained as Bush continued massive spending are delusional. Didn't anyone notice the fact that Republicans has no energy during the 2006 election? Why? The lack of fiscal responsibility and incompetency regarding illegal immigration.

Bachus is right. He has a list of 17 members in Congress who are socialist, but he will not reveal them...yet. I think he should form a special Congressional Committee to investigate these no good Socies and also while he is at it, investigate all those who pollute our minds with their socialist propoganda. There has got to be a lot of socialists in Hollywood. It is time to smoke them out and compile lists. If they don't comply let's black ball the bastards!

Again...he isn't using "socialist" as an insult. Do you really think there aren't Democratic politicians whose policies and political principal's can't be described as socialist?

Yay, this sounds like a great idea. After all if you disagree with Bachus you have got to be a Socialist. And I think we should look back historically at these punks who have been treading on us since Edward R. Murrow.

Again, you aren't looking at this intelligently.

really? I tend to remember many in the minority saying that "cutting taxes while at war is asinine" and many arguing why Bush's economic argument on everything was tax cuts. We are in a surplus at the beginning of his tenure with a slight recession? Tax cuts. We are in a meek expansion, but we are now in huge amounts of debt and are about to go to war? Tax cuts. We are in middle of a hugely expensive war, the deficit has never been higher and we are possibly headed towards another recession? Tax cuts.

Tax Cuts had nothing to do with the debt of today. Tax cuts stimulates the economy.

He is trying to save capitalism from itself, like FDR did 70 years ago.

He is trying to save capitalism from itself

That's comparable to the insane mother that drowns her children to protect them from evil.

 

[Kelly]

We really need a quota on how many times this can be used in a post.....

That's irritating Stormin', you don't need all of that to make your point, kinda weakens it actually...not

 

[StorminNorman]

There is a quota. It is 10.

 

[Kelly]

There is a quota. It is 10.

Well, let me put it this way, it's getting annoying, and does not help your argument. You would honestly be laughing at someone's opinion like that if you were talking to them face to face? Really?

 

[StorminNorman]

If someone says "Obama is trying to save capitalism from itself"?

Maybe.

But this isn't, also, real life. It's a different medium. My ability to demonstrate an emotion, a tone, etc. is greatly restricted when dealing with simple black and white. So is used to demonstrate disbelief, amusement, hilarity, etc.

 

[Kelly]

I'm not debating the subject, just chill with it.....

 

[metr0man]

There may or may not be socialists, I dunno. But Republicans calling a Democrat a socialist doesn't make them a socialist. I don't think of the Republican definition when they are calling people socialists, as socialism necessarily - they are just screaming it to try and make Dems look bad the same way people screamed 'fascist' at Bush because of things like wiretapping and no-lawyer detentions. Things like that were the first step in a slippery but long slope towards fascism but that alone doesn't make bush a fascist, just like the government doing anything is the first step in a long long road towards socialism. Doesn't make them socialists.

There was a poll that said only 53% of americans thought capitalism was better than socialism. I blame Republicans for that. You didn't hear a lot of socialism talk until the latter months of the election. You think it's an accident that this shift in opinion happened after months of Republicans screaming 'socialism! socialism!' to whatever the Dems were doing or planning?

In a situation like that, people who never had the strongest sense of what socialism is or isn't are basically saying to themselves "wait, that's socialism? that stimulus bill is socialism? well i don't love it but I don't hate it either, i want the government to be active and try and do something... i don't think the stimulus bill is evil"... hence a softened attitude towards socialism as a concept.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I'm sure there are people with every political belief under the sun in DC. Thats not necessarily a bad thing. Do we want only one vision or opinion in government, or do we want everyone represented?

No doubt there are socialists in Congress, but what can we do about it? Nothing, unless we are constituents in their district. Thats the way it should be. Let the constituents deal with their Congress people and everyone else should butt out. If there is a arch conservative in Congress, that person has as much a right to be there as a socialist. Not to say I want America to be socialist, but that the choices of voters should be respected.

 

[danielisthor]

I'm sure there are people with every political belief under the sun in DC. Thats not necessarily a bad thing. Do we want only one vision or opinion in government, or do we want everyone represented?

No doubt there are socialists in Congress, but what can we do about it? Nothing, unless we are constituents in their district. Thats the way it should be. Let the constituents deal with their Congress people and everyone else should butt out. If there is a arch conservative in Congress, that person has as much a right to be there as a socialist. Not to say I want America to be socialist, but that the choices of voters should be respected.

I sorta agree with you. The danger in that is if said person gets to set the agenda and policies for the nation and the constituents like what that congressperson does. I don't like Nancy Pelosi, and until she's either voted out by her constituents (not likely to happen since her district loves her) or the Republicans retake the House, I and others (whether Republicans, Dems or Indies) who dislike her policies are screwed.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I sorta agree with you. The danger in that is if said person gets to set the agenda and policies for the nation and the constituents like what that congressperson does. I don't like Nancy Pelosi, and until she's either voted out by her constituents (not likely to happen since her district loves her) or the Republicans retake the House, I and others (whether Republicans, Dems or Indies) who dislike her policies are screwed.

Sadly, (or not, depending on your point of view) thats the way our Republic works. I had no use for George Bush or Tom Delay, but they were the ones running the show, so I dealt with it. Now we have a Democrat in the White House and its the Republicans turn to fume.

Thats life.

 

[danielisthor]

I know a lot of people hated him, but the House has been screwed up since Newt left.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I know a lot of people hated him, but the House has been screwed up since Newt left.

How often is the government not screwed up?

 

[danielisthor]

How often is the government not screwed up?

Good Point.

United States Government - Screwing its citizens since inception

 

[Hobgoblin]

Good Point.

United States Government - Screwing its citizens since inception

I was watching The Presidents on the History Channel the other day and they said that the only time that the federal budget was truly balanced was in the 1830's. So for a brief, shining moment, we had competent people who cared.

 

[SuBe]

I love that series.

 

[StorminNorman]

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/04/09/rep-bachus-17-house-members-are-socialists/

This is just more McCarthy-type fearmongering BS from the right wing. For a lot of people, the word "socalist" still has a strong connotation linking it to the history of Soviet communism, and (mistakenly) Nazi fascism, among other things.

I want to see the list. And I want to hear him justify it. I think this guy is acting like a coward...making a claim like this without backing it up with anything.

I know Spencer Bachus better than anyone in this forum, he is about as far away from a fearmongering right winger as you can get. Again, I think this is simply someone looking at a spade...and calling it a spade. The idea that there are some members of the Democrat Party, in Washington, whose views CAN be described as socialist is hardly new.

 

[Cosmic]

I'm not disputing this idea, but rather the rhetoric being used. I'm saying, what is the point of even mentioning it? And what is the point of giving a specific number? I think it's not a case of calling something what it is. This is using the word "socialist" as code for "un-American."