Do you want to be first to play Revolution?

[jaydawg]

Seriously, Nintendo really needs a mature label. Eternal Darkness was a good start, but few bought it. Its a shame too, I doubt we'll ever see a sequel, and if we do, it wont be on a Nintendo system. Geist has potential, Kid Icarus could go into more of a God of War direction, Sin and Punishment could get a sequel. Come on Nintendo. We know you guys can do family titles. We know you can do teen titles. Step up to the Mature stuff.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Is Red Steel going to be M? If it is, having a good M game at launch will be a good start to reel in older players.

 

[Phaser]

Nintendo is aimed towards everyone. Most of them games are suitable for younger players which makes people say they are aimed towards kids just because they don't have violent franchises like Halo or GTA.

I just don't get this thickeadedness from you Nintendophiles. Violence is not the only thing M-rated franchises like Halo and MGS have going for them. It's because they have great stories, deal with mature themes, have infinitely more intriguing and believable characters, well-written dialogue (comparitively at least) all backed with excellent gameplay to boot.

I don't doubt the big N's ability to make games with exceptional gameplay. But for once I'd like them to focus on gamers who don't want to feel like they're watching Saturday morning cartoons whenever they pop in a Nintendo disc. Colorful art direction, sugar-coated storylines, innocent and cartoony characters - I mean come on! If one look at Mario, Donkey Kong, Smash Bros. and (and to some extent) Zelda doesn't convince you they're totally kiddie fare at face value, then nothing will. Which is why the only Nintendo franchise I'm interested in right now is the Metroid Prime series. I'm also willing to give Twilight Princess a chance if the game doesn't hold back or dumb itself down only to "appeal to the widest possible audience".

 

[The Master]

I just don't get this thickeadedness from you Nintendophiles. Violence is not the only thing M-rated franchises like Halo and MGS have going for them. It's because they have great stories, deal with mature themes, have infinitely more intriguing and believable characters, well-written dialogue (comparitively at least) all backed with excellent gameplay to boot.

I don't doubt the big N's ability to make games with exceptional gameplay. But for once I'd like them to focus on gamers who don't want to feel like they're watching Saturday morning cartoons whenever they pop in a Nintendo disc. Colorful art direction, sugar-coated storylines, innocent and cartoony characters - I mean come on! If one look at Mario, Donkey Kong, Smash Bros. and (and to some extent) Zelda doesn't convince you they're totally kiddie fare at face value, then nothing will. Which is why the only Nintendo franchise I'm interested in right now is the Metroid Prime series. I'm also willing to give Twilight Princess a chance if the game doesn't hold back or dumb itself down only to "appeal to the widest possible audience".

Don't waste your time on this Phas. Most Nintendo fans won't 'get it'.

 

[Phaser]

Don't waste your time on this Phas. Most Nintendo fans won't 'get it'.

Yeah, most of them will keep on thinking the only reason so many people dig games like Halo, Half-Life and MGS is because they're "violent".

 

[jaydawg]

I seriously doubt Twilight Princess is going to be dumbed down. It easily looks like the darkest first party game Nintendo has ever done. And don't forget, Ocarina and Majora's Mask both had a fantastic story, very dark themes and creepy atmosphere, yet both were E.

 

[Phaser]

I seriously doubt Twilight Princess is going to be dumbed down. It easily looks like the darkest first party game Nintendo has ever done.

I most certainly hope you're right.

And don't forget, Ocarina and Majora's Mask both had a fantastic story, very dark themes and creepy atmosphere, yet both were E.

Which is why I said Zelda "to some extent". Yes, both OoT and MM had a few dark themes and occassionally creepy atmosphere, but they also had that "Nintendo" factor playing for them where both games often had a noticeably lighter atmosphere as well.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I just don't get this thickeadedness from you Nintendophiles. Violence is not the only thing M-rated franchises like Halo and MGS have going for them. It's because they have great stories, deal with mature themes, have infinitely more intriguing and believable characters, well-written dialogue (comparitively at least) all backed with excellent gameplay to boot.

First, I am not a Nintendophile. I enjoy their games as much as those on PS2 or Xbox. Violence and Sex are the 2 things that make an M game M. You can have great stories, mature themes, good dialogue, gameplay, etc. in E or T games.

I don't doubt the big N's ability to make games with exceptional gameplay. But for once I'd like them to focus on gamers who don't want to feel like they're watching Saturday morning cartoons whenever they pop in a Nintendo disc. Colorful art direction, sugar-coated storylines, innocent and cartoony characters - I mean come on! If one look at Mario, Donkey Kong, Smash Bros. and (and to some extent) Zelda doesn't convince you they're totally kiddie fare at face value, then nothing will.

They have focused on more mature games like Ocarina of Time or the Metroid series. I don't find SSB all that kiddy since you can beat the crap out of Pikachu.

Which is why the only Nintendo franchise I'm interested in right now is the Metroid Prime series. I'm also willing to give Twilight Princess a chance if the game doesn't hold back or dumb itself down only to "appeal to the widest possible audience".

I never got into Metroid Prime series, but I plan on giving 3 a try since I'd like to get into FPSs with the Rev controller. Nintendo has said TP will be the darkest Zelda game, so I think you can expect a good game.

Which is why I said Zelda "to some extent". Yes, both OoT and MM had a few dark themes and occassionally creepy atmosphere, but they also had that "Nintendo" factor playing for them where both games often had a noticeably lighter atmosphere as well.

The only games I can think of in the Zelda series that are "kiddy" are Wind Waker, Minish Cap, and 4 Swords Adventure. All only because of graphics.

 

[Phaser]

First, I am not a Nintendophile. I enjoy their games as much as those on PS2 or Xbox. Violence and Sex are the 2 things that make an M game M. You can have great stories, mature themes, good dialogue, gameplay, etc. in E or T games.

Way to gloss over my point, skippy. I wasn't talking about M-rated games in general. I was talking about good M-rated games like Halo, Half-Life 2 and MGS, which in your asinine opinion, appeal to the masses only because they are "violent".

They have focused on more mature games like Ocarina of Time or the Metroid series. I don't find SSB all that kiddy since you can beat the crap out of Pikachu.

Ocarina of Time isn't half as mature as you're touting it to be. I can think of a dozen things that make it seem perfectly appropriate for the "Nickelodeon" crowd. Sure, there are a handful of instances where it isn't, but then again, so are cartoons like Samurai Jack. And anyone who thinks SSB is not kiddy in look, tone, atmosphere and even it's cartoonish violence has lost their mind.

The only games I can think of in the Zelda series that are "kiddy" are Wind Waker, Minish Cap, and 4 Swords Adventure. All only because of graphics.

All Zelda games have been "kiddy" more or less, but they have been "kiddy". Twilight Princess looks like a departure from the series' usual roots, so I'll be keeping a close eye on it.

 

[Phaser]

Oh and...isn't it funny that Nintendophiles get all riled up when someone calls their favorite games "kiddy", yet knock on all M-rated games for being "violent"?

 

[terry78]

FYI, you have to be over 18 to attend E3, hence the over 18 rule.

 

[WhatsHisFace]

Oh and...isn't it funny that Nintendophiles get all riled up when someone calls their favorite games "kiddy", yet knock on all M-rated games for being "violent"?

Have you ever gone to the Nintendo.com forums? Hahaha, just lurk there for ten minutes... it's ignorance to the max. The absolute max.

 

[Phaser]

Have you ever gone to the Nintendo.com forums? Hahaha, just lurk there for ten minutes... it's ignorance to the max. The absolute max.

I'm not going to sign up just to see a bunch of whiny kids hail the latest exercise in Mario Party/Kart/Tennis/Golf/Soccer/Paper/Luigi/Sucks-so-much-I-ran-out-of-names mediocrity. :

 

[WhatsHisFace]

I'm not going to sign up just to see a bunch of whiny kids hail the latest exercise in Mario Party/Kart/Tennis/Golf/Soccer/Paper/Luigi/Sucks-so-much-I-ran-out-of-names mediocrity. :

You don't have to sign up.

 

[Matt]

Nintendo is aimed towards everyone. Most of them games are suitable for younger players which makes people say they are aimed towards kids just because they don't have violent franchises like Halo or GTA.

Exactly! Just because a game isn't about picking up hookers or brutually killing aliens, doesn't mean its "kiddy". Zelda, Mario, Smash Bros, Star Fox, Donkey Kong, Animal Crossing, etc...they can be enjoyed by everyone. Children may enjoy them but so can adults. Its not "kiddy", its universal.

 

[WhatsHisFace]

No, it's kiddy. Halo and GTA can be enjoyed by everyone too (and they are), but that doesn't make them universal.

 

[Matt]

No, it's kiddy. Halo and GTA can be enjoyed by everyone too (and they are), but that doesn't make them universal.

Would you want your ten year old playing Halo or GTA?

 

[Phaser]

You don't have to sign up.

I'm still not willing to dignify that place with my presence.

 

[Phaser]

Exactly! Just because a game isn't about picking up hookers or brutually killing aliens, doesn't mean its "kiddy". Zelda, Mario, Smash Bros, Star Fox, Donkey Kong, Animal Crossing, etc...they can be enjoyed by everyone. Children may enjoy them but so can adults. Its not "kiddy", its universal.

No, it's kiddy. Games with true universal appeal are games like Tetris, Civilization, Sim City, Prince of Persia, Need for Speed, Gran Turismo and so on, whose content isn't focused on a single specific audience, but rather consists of many different elements that can appeal to different audiences equally at the same time.

Nintendo games (well, most of them) are kiddy. Why? Because they were primarily designed with a younger audience in mind. No getting around that fact. Just look at their characters - funny, innocent and cartoony. The games - entertaining but also upbeat, dumbed, lighthearted and amusing. Those very elements of Saturday morning cartoons is what has turned away most mainstream gamers from Nintendo's games. Violence has nothing to do with it. It's about the game itself treating the gamer as a child. I'm past the days of my childhood and I want games that have some maturity, some intelligence to them. And many Nintendo games just turn me off. All that sugar-coating is enough to give me diabetes.

If some adults enjoy playing Nintendo games, it's not that the game itself is universal, but it is the concerned adults themselves who enjoy playing "kiddy" games. Nothing to be ashamed of per se, as I'm sure there are more than a couple of us who wouldn't mind occassionally sitting through an episode of Samurai Jack or Johnny Bravo, just for a few quick laughs. Enjoyable? Yes. Universal? Hell no.

 

[SpiderFan17]

No, it's kiddy. Games with true universal appeal are games like Tetris, Civilization, Sim City, Prince of Persia, Need for Speed, Gran Turismo and so on, whose content isn't focused on a single specific audience, but rather consists of many different elements that can appeal to different audiences equally at the same time.

Hang on, i have to call you out on something. You honestly believe that Need for Speed (BLING BLING YO!!! although to be fair they dumped that somewhat in most wanted), Prince of Persia ("YOU *****! I WEAR EYE SHADOW NOW AND AM HARDK0RE!!" I mean, come on, look at what Ubisoft was forced to do to that franchise to make anyone want to buy it) and Gran Turismo ("its called a driving SIMULATOR! GET IT RIGHT!") are "universal" games? At one point, I am more than willing to contend those franchises were universal, but in their current format you honestly cannot say they don't cater to a specific market. Thats not to say children can't enjoy them, but they are by no means 100% universal.

Games are about having fun. If you don't have fun with nintendo games, thats fine. If you dont have fun with GTA for whatever reason, thats fine. But seriously, this back and forth "TOO VIOLENT!" "TOO CHILDISH!" crap is ridiculous. There is no such thing as too violent, because violence is a natural part of gaming, in some form or another, from a bonk on the head to severing a head. To be fair, there ARE some things that are too childish, but just because you feel Nintendo games aren't as complex as the games you normally play, they are by no means "childish". Childish is the NES game "Big Bird Speak and Say", for proper reference. Otherwise, using criteria you have submitted, the Jak, Katamari and Ratchet franchises are aimed at 9 year olds, due to their colorful graphics, near non-violence, and cartoonish characters, but I have yet to hear anyone coming down hard on those franchises like they do to Nintendo's. Its very much in part to console bias.

 

[Phaser]

Hang on, i have to call you out on something. You honestly believe that Need for Speed (BLING BLING YO!!! although to be fair they dumped that somewhat in most wanted)

Most of the games in the series before the Underground crap.

Prince of Persia ("YOU *****! I WEAR EYE SHADOW NOW AND AM HARDK0RE!!")...

Did I specifically mention Warrior Within? Is it impossible to assume tha I just as well could have been talking about Sands of Time or Two Thrones instead? Or is it so necessary for me spell out every single thing I say on this board?

...and Gran Turismo ("its called a driving SIMULATOR! GET IT RIGHT!")...

Oh, forgive me for thinking GT actually had an "Arcade mode" without all the pseudo-sim crap dragging away on your playtime.

...are "universal" games?

Yes.

At one point, I am more than willing to contend those franchises were universal, but in their current format you honestly cannot say they don't cater to a specific market. Thats not to say children can't enjoy them, but they are by no means 100% universal.

In what way? Please elaborate.

Games are about having fun. If you don't have fun with nintendo games, thats fine. If you dont have fun with GTA for whatever reason, thats fine. But seriously, this back and forth "TOO VIOLENT!" "TOO CHILDISH!" crap is ridiculous. There is no such thing as too violent, because violence is a natural part of gaming, in some form or another, from a bonk on the head to severing a head. To be fair, there ARE some things that are too childish, but just because you feel Nintendo games aren't as complex as the games you normally play, they are by no means "childish".

Many of Nintendo's games are kiddy. And I've already spoken at length for my reasons of categorizing them as such in my earlier posts.

Childish is the NES game "Big Bird Speak and Say", for proper reference.

That is the extreme example of a kiddy game, not the criteria.

Otherwise, using criteria you have submitted, the Jak, Katamari and Ratchet franchises are aimed at 9 year olds, due to their colorful graphics, near non-violence, and cartoonish characters, but I have yet to hear anyone coming down hard on those franchises like they do to Nintendo's. Its very much in part to console bias.

Jak, Ratchet and Sly Cooper all fall in the same category as many of Nintendo's franchises. Your point?

 

[WhatsHisFace]

Would you want your ten year old playing Halo or GTA?

I played worse games than Halo and GTA when I was ten and I'm sure you did too. If my kid was as stable and rooted in reality as I was at that age, I'd be fine with it.

 

[SpiderFan17]

In what way? Please elaborate.

Prince of Persia is about jumping and solving puzzles, but its (now) also about bloody violence. This doesn't eliminate anyone from playing, but the tone of the games are clearly marketed towards older mature gamers. Need for Speed is a racing game, but the subculture it allies itself with isn't exactly childlike, is it? Gran Turismo is a racing game, but it was primarily designed for the hardcore auto enthusiast, who enjoys realistic racing. Like i said, its not exclusive, but its clear they weren't targeted towards kids

Jak, Ratchet and Sly Cooper all fall in the same category as many of Nintendo's franchises. Your point?

I just stated my point, that Sony has a bunch of kiddy properties, but nobody calls Sony games "kiddie" as often (or ever) as they do Nintendo games. Its console bias.

 

[THWIP*]

I played worse games than Halo and GTA when I was ten and I'm sure you did too. If my kid was as stable and rooted in reality as I was at that age, I'd be fine with it.

MY 8 Y.O. NEPHEW HAS BEEN PLAYING 'HALO 2' SINCE IT CAME OUT (HE WAS 6-1/2 WHEN HE FIRST STARTED PLAYING IT).

 

[WhatsHisFace]

I just stated my point, that Sony has a bunch of kiddy properties, but nobody calls Sony games "kiddie" as often (or ever) as they do Nintendo games. Its console bias.

No, it's library proportion. For every "kiddy" game Sony has, they have a GTA, a Metal Gear Solid, a Killzone, a Punisher, etc.