Does JL coming out 5 years AFTER Avengers

[Jake Cassidy]

Some people think that Avengers is crap. So what?

 

[idiot09]

I love BvS, but come on is that movie really better than Avengers? Avengers was expertly done. Each scene flowed perfectly into the next, there was never a dull moment. With BvS, I've frequently found myself skipping to the last hour when I watch it.

I'm one of those guys that prefers a darker more serious tone for the Justice League, but Avengers was really well done and we'd be lucky to have something close to as good as that with Justice League.

I just really admire what Marvel has done. Wish it was the other way around though because I will always be a DC guy at heart and wish their characters were portrayed with the same level of respect Marvel has for the source material.

What has someone hating Avengers got to do with BvS? They cant be any more different movies. JL and Avengers is a more apt comparison. Its like saying "Come on I like John Wick too, but The Magnificient Seven is soo much better".

Also I like Avengers. Its a solid 6/10 movie. But if they stopped making movies because similar ones have been made in the past then reboots woulnt have existed.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

John Wick is so much better than The Magnificent Seven. Don't even start that ****, idiot.


t:

 

[chamber-music]

I imagine if JL doesn't make as much as anticipated at the box office this will be used as an excuse by various people, but in all honesty I don't think it matters.

Yes, Marvel got to the big superhero team up movie first, but I question how much it really matters.

Fans of DC have been waiting for this movie for decades, so will be excited.
General public care more about having a good movie presented to them.

So no, I don't think it matters. What will matter most is JL being good.

I agree.

 

[Sorath]

Okay I'm going chime in here and give you my opinion and it is just my opinion. Marvel set up for Avengers all way back in Ironman. Nothing was locked in stone but they knew they where going to do Avengers. They wanted to make it a big block buster hit.

Part of there strategy was to lay down some key characters and to give the actors chance to slip in to those roles before sharing the big screen. It was also about the hype. They wanted to ramp up audience excitement for Avengers. It's basically like four play. They did it again in the upcoming Infinity War films. People are so ramped up for it that's going to be a smash hit.

When Avengers came out Man of Steel was all ready in production. WB suddenly realized that Disney had a summer blockbuster. They realized they where standing still compared to Disney. So their decided Man of Steel would lay down the ground work for DCU.

The problem was that Man of Steel came out and did well but on name value alone. The vast majority of the audience walked out not really caring one way or the other about the movie. It lacked that spark that Disney seem to have. My person belief is they spent way to much time blowing stuff up and less time establishing the ground work for there characters that would carry the DCU forward as marvel did.

Now this left them with a problem. They wanted to do a Justice League film because they could see the dollar signs because of Avengers. However Man of Steel failed to live up to expectations. Plus they had the problem of how to reintroduce Batman in to the universe with out doing yet another reboot. They couldn't do a Man of Steel sequel because in all honesty it would have flopped. This is why we got Batman v Superman.

Batman v Superman was bad; not Superman returns bad but bad enough that it should never been made. IT was basically a two hour trailer for Justice League. Also they tried borrowed from a few major DC story arcs and threw them in one film and did a terrible job it while they where at it.

Once again film comes out and general perception was the film was horrible. However now stage is set and their only two choices are to back off and let it go and in few year try and return to it. Or carry on and hope they can fix it enough that doesn't kill the whole thing.

Everything WB has been doing is about reacting instead of having some sort of plan. I think now they are starting to get their crap together. The question is will Justice League be good enough for it to matter. Up till Joss took over I would said no shot in hell of Justice League surviving. I would say the film would be like Batman v Superman. Every one would get all excited then film would come out and it would be horrible.

With Joss taking over and WB mind set in regards to direction they are taking the DCU having changed I think their is small bit of hope. I think the reason Joss is being allowed to make all these expensive changes is because they are hoping he can improve upon the film and make it a film audience will love.

Wonder-Women showed that WB can make a good film. However they need to be patient and have the right people involved.

 

[Bren]

Does JL coming out 5 years AFTER Avengers have somewhat of a dampening or negative affect on this movie?

For me, not at all. I love the escapism and 'good guy wins' style of comic book movies.
I just want it to be great. I'll be happy with 'good'.

That I am mildly apprehensive has to do with not loving MOS and disliking BvS - nothing to do with Avengers or any other films tbh.

 

[mclay18]

I had a smile a mile wide. Saw it four time in the theater. From almost beginning until the end while seeing it for the first time my only thought was "Dear GOD, they actually pulled this off... I cannot believe it."

This.

Ultron, however, was one of the most disappointing sequels I've seen in recent memory. Franchise fatigue is settling into the MCU, hence the front-loaded opening weekends on most of their new films.

It's not surprising that we have Whedon finishing JL for Snyder. As long as he keeps the film fun and interesting via the reshoots, we should be in for a good time come November 17.

 

[King23DC]

Something that honestly was built up so much that there was uncertainty if this kind of thing would really work. And frankly if it didn't work I'm not sure where we might be in terms of superhero movies.

I never bought this as being some huge cinematic feat to overcome. But it would be interesting to see where the genre would be if it wasn't received as well.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Personally, for me, makes zero difference or the formulation of any 'doubt' in seeing it, but the accusation of WB/DC having to play 'catch up' from some quarters across the world will inevitably come.

I remember hearing Grace Randolph saying that because Marvel had got 'to the ball' first in terms of public consciousness with their team, that was more important.

For me, comic book lore and time line release dates play an equal part in that consciousness and JL 'got there first' in that sense, but it's not a competition, it's a creative art form that, hopefully, is about having the best possible representation of our fave characters that appeal to as larger set of people as possible to inspire us, and that we can embrace as part of our own lives.

There is frankly, room for everyone, people have a favourite and that may sway some people but I think 'demand' for a JL will always be there, regardless of a release date or what preceded it, genre wise.

 

[Lorus]

I think the existence of the Avengers will have a definite effect on the prospects of this film. The idea of a big superhero team-up that spans a cinematic universe is no longer much of a novelty, which I think will stop it from earning the Avengers money that WB are no doubt aiming for. There will also be a number of inevitable comparisons made between the two films simply because there are so many tangible plot similarities. There is even a scenario in which having Whedon on board may even hurt Justice League as his presence may contribute to a feeling of 'sameyness' with his Avengers films. He is a canny fellow, of course, so hopefully that has all been taken into account.

In any instance, I don't see Justice League being helped by the Avengers' presence. Speed was a big part of this particular contest, I feel.

 

[Samurai_Adam]

I love BvS, but come on is that movie really better than Avengers?

In my opinion? Yes. I might be in the minority, but that's my subjective opinion. I just didn't care for Avengers. For me it's kind of like the TV show Friends: everybody seems to love it, and deep down I wish I was in the same boat, but I just don't care for it. Doesn't mean it's 'garbage', it just means it's not my cup of tea.

 

[writer0327]

My thoughts on this subject.

1. DC should have led the way for a shared superhero universe. Don't get me wrong, I love the MCU, but DC in film was pretty nicely established and owned all of their most popular characters. Marvel doesn't, so DC, I feel, was better suited to launch a shared universe.

2. I believe if JL came out after a series of successful films for each of the characters, it would be in much better shape than it is now. Don't get me wrong, it's still gonna do bonkers at the box office and there will be major hype, but the slow build would have given it a great foundation.

3. The timing of the release to the Avengers is irrelevant. They could have released it 2 years ago, or 5 years from now, the impact would have likely been the same given the similar circumstances of the DCEU.

 

[Longshot777]

Kind of.

The best JL can do is tie the first Avengers because Avengers was the first no matter how great JL will become.

But Marvel should stop comparing JL to Infinity War.

Compare the D.C. Movies with Marvel's Phase 1 not all of Marvel's movies.

So far,

MOS is better than Ironman
BVS is better than Thor
WW is better than Captain America
JL even if great can only TIE Avengers because they set the standard and was the first to achieve superheroes from different movies coming together.

So DCEU so far is better than the first phase of MCU

 

[_Superman_]

My problem with Avengers is the same problem I have with every Marvel movie and that is while they may be fun their stories don't really keep me invested with the movies or what they are doing for the most part. That's why I am not to worried about Justice League being dampened by Avengers. Mainly because DC is more story focused while Marvel is more like a Michael Bay film with just a little bit more meat to it's stories not much more but just a little bit more. That's why I am not too worried about things. But then again I guess it makes sense in a way because that's how their comics are as well.

 

[NealKenneth]

So far,

MOS is better than Ironman
BVS is better than Thor
WW is better than Captain America
JL even if great can only TIE Avengers because they set the standard and was the first to achieve superheroes from different movies coming together.

So DCEU so far is better than the first phase of MCU

haha what

 

[TheTarkKnight]

Ugh.

It would've mattered if we're comparing apples to apples. This is more like comparing apples (Avengers) to Gods (JL).

I rest my case.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Avengers is like Avatar to me. Both were innovative fresh experiences (which does deserve a lot of praise), but now I don't enjoy the movies very much. In fact now I find both movies to be unbearably corny.

 

[Longshot777]

haha what

Yup you read right.

50-50 MOS or Ironman could go either way Superman fans opinions vs Ironman fans opinions

And you can argue that Thor might be better than BVS but also many argues that BVS kills Thor's movie.

BUT WW without doubt in a public concensus is a better movie than Captain America.

So so far DCEU Phase One is better than Marvel's Phase One

As a whole Marvel is a head better than DC right now.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Totally agree with long shot.... (I know, I know, unsurprisingly), but I genuinely love the DCEU over MCU on every film, every level, every aspect.

 

[King23DC]

Iron Man > MOS
Iron Man 2 < Batman v Superman
Thor = Suicide Squad
Cap FA < Wonder Woman

IMO of course ... JL could end up being better than Avengers but it won't be "greater" or more important for the genre.

 

[NealKenneth]

Sorry I had not realized I was in a DC subforum somehow. I guess it is all a matter of opinion

 

[Greens]

Yup you read right.

50-50 MOS or Ironman could go either way Superman fans opinions vs Ironman fans opinions


And you can argue that Thor might be better than BVS but also many argues that BVS kills Thor's movie.


BUT WW without doubt in a public concensus is a better movie than Captain America.

So so far DCEU Phase One is better than Marvel's Phase One

As a whole Marvel is a head better than DC right now.

You're a funny guy.

 

[Da-Scribe]

It doesn't really matter. It's just a talking point for fanboys.

At the end of the day, WB owns the entire DC stable, where Disney does not have the same luxury with Marvel. So, WB can leverage these IPs in ways Disney never can. It's not a knock on Marvel's content or anything like that. Just a fact. WB has way more opportunity here. So, that alone makes me more excited.

 

[Moridin]

Have somewhat of a dampening or negative affect on this movie?

I would say yes, to a small extent. Novelty matters when box office is concerned. Giving audiences fresh experiences is always a plus. They were first and set the trend we're currently riding.

But a much bigger dampening affect then Avengers coming out 5 years ago might have (plus having Ultron & Civil War in the interim), is BvS coming out a mere 20 months beforehand.

1. Going back to novelty; JL will not be the first time we see Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman teaming up on the big screen, that novelty is gone (and adding Cyborg, Flash & Aquaman isn't going to make much difference, they aren't draws)...

2. Not only is that novelty gone, it was squandered on a movie that received toxic word of mouth. JL would have to be a hugely entertaining crowd pleasing blockbuster to overcome the damage BvS did just 20 months prior.... which leads to...

3. (a) Snyders trackrecord, generally & specifically for this franchise, does not speak to "crowd pleasing" results.
(b) The production for JL has been tumultuous to say the least.


So in a sentence, the biggest obstacles JL faces are internal, rather than external (although 2 other external obstacles are Ragnarok & Coco, which are significantly larger competition than what BvS faced).

 

[Spider-Aziz]

No, that's reason to get excited. The poor reception BvS received is the reason to start worrying for the future of this movie, though we can hope Wonder Woman lifts the spirits of audience up enough to encourage them to give this movie a better chance.