Does marvel really have a problem with making their villains cool?

[DA_Champion]

Yea it will be a mix of Skynet/Terminator and Philip K Dick i think. Ultron is different to the Terminators in that he actually has emotions etc. He doesn't just see humanities extinction as something necessary due simply to logic, but because he hates us too.

Within the Terminator expanded universe, of which Whedon is a fan, some of the Terminator develop emotions.

 

[DA_Champion]

The twist being a one-two punch of Trevor Slattery the Drunken, Bumbling Oaf and Aldrich Killian the Dragon Man was enough to give me vertigo.

That's a good point, the bumbling oaf becoming Aldrich Killian didn't work.

 

[Boom]

Killian: (cartoonishly) I am The Mandarin!
*Proceeds to get his ass kicked by Pepper Potts*

 

[The Endless]

Up to that point he was suitably threatening, seemed unstoppable really and i liked the choreography when he was fighting Stark. I enjoyed Pearce's cocky demeanor too. He was a very Shane Black villain.

 

[Smilodon]

I think Doctor Strange could pave the way to introduce Mephisto in addition to Baron Mordo and Dormammu. The three of those could definitely become big villains in the future if they're handled properly.

 

[Destructus86]

Ronan was AWESOME.

 

[Dasher10]

The villains who I felt failed on screen were Whiplash and Malekith. Kurse and Coldblood weren't very good either.

That said, I can see some great Phase 3 villains in Magus, Zemo, Enchantress, Yon-Rogg, Klaw, Killmonger, Dormammu and Leader.

Come Phase 4, I can see Scarecrow, Red Hulk, Cthon, Yelena Belova, Sinthuia Schmitdt and Zeke Stane being really, really cool.

Or on TV, I'm hoping that Kingpin, Steel Serpent, Chemistro and Purple Man are done well.

 

[BoredGuy]

Top villains:
-Loki
-Pearce
-Killian

Villains with a lot of potential:
-Crossbones
-Hammer
-Nebula
-Ronan (if he survived)

Poorly adapted Villains:
-Malekith
-Red Skull
-Whiplash

Any others are firmly in the "Meh" category
Based on that, I'd say yea, Marvel needs to step up their villain game
but I'm hopeful that Crossbones (plus Sin, hopefully) and Nebula get some more fun stuff to do in Cap3 and GOT2 respectively

Then there's Thanos and Ulltron, but it's way too early to tell with either of them

 

[marcvader]

Top villains:
-Loki
-Pearce
-Killian

Villains with a lot of potential:
-Crossbones
-Batroc
-Nebula
-Ronan (if he survived)

Poorly adapted Villains:
-Malekith
-Red Skull
-Whiplash

Any others are firmly in the "Meh" category
Based on that, I'd say yea, Marvel needs to step up their villain game
but I'm hopeful that Crossbones (plus Sin, hopefully) and Nebula get some more fun stuff to do in Cap3 and GOT2 respectively

No Obadiah Stane?

 

[BoredGuy]

ohhhh true^^
I guess he'd go in the top tier, cuz he was such a dick and the betrayal was epic

the final fight lets him down just a tad though

 

[Shikamaru]

Loki isn't Marvel's only great villain. Pierce was a fantastic villain and very underrated IMO, easily a close second to Loki. I think the direction they're currently going in with HYDRA has been phenomenal in TWS and AoS, and can really do wonders for future villains like Zemo, Strucker and (a new portrayal of) Red Skull. Also for all the crap people give Agents of SHIELD, they did have some really good and memorable villains. Lorelei was well done and the scene where she casually tells that guy to kill his wife was disturbing on first viewing. I thought Bill Paxton's character and performance were great, though he technically counts as HYDRA, which goes back to my point about having hopes for HYDRA villains in the future.


However, it's true that Marvel generally has had subpar villains. Bridges and Hurt gave great performances, but they didn't have much to work with. Abomination was fun seeing go toe-to-toe with Hulk, but was underused and needed a better design.

Vanko and Hammer were "meh". Vanko's reasons for doing all that make no sense past the first act and the film never explores the depth of his relationship with the Stark family. I kinda digged Rockwell's whole "he's trying so hard to be Tony Stark but failing way", but Hammer overall wasn't that impressive. You never felt he was more of a threat past being Vanko's *****, which would be better if Vanko, as the main villain, was better.

As much as I like Loki, I thought he was all over the place in Thor. It wasn't until The Avengers when he truly became great.

Red Skull and Mandarin were the biggest wastes of potential IMO. In the comics, Red Skull's fascism, ambition and imperial nature is horrifying. It's even been suggested he would have overthrown the entire Third Reich had it not been for Cap. Think of all the disgusting things Hitler did and believed, then imagine Red Skull on par or topping that. In the movie, he came off as a Saturday morning cartoon villain. He didn't feel threatening nor did he come off as a fascist. Yes, I know he was supposed to be one, but I never felt it nor did the film even explore that aspect of the character. Plus the way he got taken out was very anti-climactic. Kingsley's Mandarin was brilliant but...yeah, you all heard the story 1000 times. Been there, done that. Those two right there were huge losses on Marvel's part.

Malekith was boring and one-dimensional. Easily the worst villain so far. There was nothing memorable about him, and he is apparently a sadistic mastermind in the comics. Eccleston was completely wasted in the role.

I don't think Ronan is as bad as people make him out to be, I think he was good, but here's the problem...he's Ronan. As a deranged lunatic, he's fine. But why simplify someone like Ronan to a deranged lunatic? Changes from the source material are welcomed if the ideas are good/better. In this case, the change was not just pointless but detrimental. And much how like TWS/AoS brings great opportunities for future HYDRA villains, Guardians did the exact opposite with the Kree. The Kree are an imperial dictatorship and one of the strongest alien species in Marvel. In this, they felt like just another species. There was nothing that stood out past "blue humans", even in comparison to other aliens.

Ultron, Thanos, and Kingpin all look promising, so that's a good sign.

 

[BoredGuy]

As much as I like Loki, I thought he was all over the place in Thor. It wasn't until The Avengers when he truly became great.

This I disagree with pretty fully
I Thought Loki was fantastic in Thor, and that performance was what allowed me to overlook his "muahaha I'll rule the world" turn in Avengers and still rank him as one of the best. People like to talk about lack of motivation for these characters, and I still think Loki's was a tad weak (though not as bad as others) in Avengers

Red Skull and Mandarin were the biggest wastes of potential IMO.

Adversely, I still dug the Mandarin twist and thought Killian was a great Villain


btw, Mandarin Twist totally sounds like a soft drink... or a really racist old-timey dance

 

[hafizbat]

Loki isn't Marvel's only great villain. Pierce was a fantastic villain and very underrated IMO, easily a close second to Loki. I think the direction they're currently going in with HYDRA has been phenomenal in TWS and AoS, and can really do wonders for future villains like Zemo, Strucker and (a new portrayal of) Red Skull. Also for all the crap people give Agents of SHIELD, they did have some really good and memorable villains. Lorelei was well done and the scene where she casually tells that guy to kill his wife was disturbing on first viewing. I thought Bill Paxton's character and performance were great, though he technically counts as HYDRA, which goes back to my point about having hopes for HYDRA villains in the future.


However, it's true that Marvel generally has had subpar villains. Bridges and Hurt gave great performances, but they didn't have much to work with. Abomination was fun seeing go toe-to-toe with Hulk, but was underused and needed a better design.

Vanko and Hammer were "meh". Vanko's reasons for doing all that make no sense past the first act and the film never explores the depth of his relationship with the Stark family. I kinda digged Rockwell's whole "he's trying so hard to be Tony Stark but failing way", but Hammer overall wasn't that impressive. You never felt he was more of a threat past being Vanko's *****, which would be better if Vanko, as the main villain, was better.

As much as I like Loki, I thought he was all over the place in Thor. It wasn't until The Avengers when he truly became great.

Red Skull and Mandarin were the biggest wastes of potential IMO. In the comics, Red Skull's fascism, ambition and imperial nature is horrifying. It's even been suggested he would have overthrown the entire Third Reich had it not been for Cap. Think of all the disgusting things Hitler did and believed, then imagine Red Skull on par or topping that. In the movie, he came off as a Saturday morning cartoon villain. He didn't feel threatening nor did he come off as a fascist. Yes, I know he was supposed to be one, but I never felt it nor did the film even explore that aspect of the character. Plus the way he got taken out was very anti-climactic. Kingsley's Mandarin was brilliant but...yeah, you all heard the story 1000 times. Been there, done that. Those two right there were huge losses on Marvel's part.

Malekith was boring and one-dimensional. Easily the worst villain so far. There was nothing memorable about him, and he is apparently a sadistic mastermind in the comics. Eccleston was completely wasted in the role.

I don't think Ronan is as bad as people make him out to be, I think he was good, but here's the problem...he's Ronan. As a deranged lunatic, he's fine. But why simplify someone like Ronan to a deranged lunatic? Changes from the source material are welcomed if the ideas are good/better. In this case, the change was not just pointless but detrimental. And much how like TWS/AoS brings great opportunities for future HYDRA villains, Guardians did the exact opposite with the Kree. The Kree are an imperial dictatorship and one of the strongest alien species in Marvel. In this, they felt like just another species. There was nothing that stood out past "blue humans", even in comparison to other aliens.

Ultron, Thanos, and Kingpin all look promising, so that's a good sign.

I pretty much agree with this, although I did like Killian. As for Ronan, I believe the change was suitable for what GotG was trying to be. They needed a menacing villain with a strong vision, and Ronan was just that. Making him too complex would have detracted from the real stars of the show, the Guardians themselves. My two cents. I do hope to see Ronan return, and develop into the conflicted, interesting character he can be.

While Ronan might not have been "Ronan", he was still a fearsome villain. They chose a direction for him and executed it well.

 

[hafizbat]

Loki, Stane, Pierce, Killian, Ronan, the Winter Soldier, and Blonsky were all great, imo. Rumlow and Savin were great "dragons" as well.

The major disappointments being Red Skull, Malekith, and Whiplash. So no, I don't think Marvel has a villain problem, and the overall quality of the movies keeps getting better, which is incredibly exciting.

 

[See Cap Run]

Loki, Stane, Pierce, Killian, Ronan, the Winter Soldier, and Blonsky were all great, imo. Rumlow and Savin were great "dragons" as well.

The major disappointments being Red Skull, Malekith, and Whiplash. So no, I don't think Marvel has a villain problem, and the overall quality of the movies keeps getting better, which is incredibly exciting.

Great post! I agree with everything you said, except I like Red Skull. Granted, I don't know much about the comic book version. Perhaps if I did, I'd feel differently about him in the movie. But yes, their consistency of awesomeness to their movies is unparalled by any other studio making CBMs, IMHO. I've heard some people say they don't like Kurse but I think he was a great dragon! Is he a more complex character in the comics?

 

[hafizbat]

On a purely aesthetic basis, can we just appreciate how damn great all the villains have looked? I love the fact that Marvel doesn't shy away from comic-booky looking villains, and man, I don't think any villain has looked lame.

 

[JJmelo]

Loki, Stane, Pierce, Killian, Ronan, the Winter Soldier, and Blonsky were all great, imo. Rumlow and Savin were great "dragons" as well.

The major disappointments being Red Skull, Malekith, and Whiplash. So no, I don't think Marvel has a villain problem, and the overall quality of the movies keeps getting better, which is incredibly exciting.

totally agree. Ronan was the most fearsome villain to date in spite of his relatively weak motivations. Malekith and whiplash were the only truly poor villains so far. Nebula kind of sucked as well but im sure she will be back and get the backstory she deserves.

 

[marcvader]

Whiplash's final look as well as Blonsky's look are the only one's I didnt like.

 

[KDM1986]

I've liked all marvels villains. Some were more memorable than others but overall marvels done a good job.

 

[marcvader]

Although not necessarily a principal villain in Thor I thought Laufey looked wicked as well.

 

[hafizbat]

The Destroyer too!

 

[Marvelocity]

Killian: (cartoonishly) I am The Mandarin!
*Proceeds to get his ass kicked by Pepper Potts*

Haha, you said it. Killian will go down as the worst villain in any comic book movie ever. He was more menacing in the comic when he shot himself in the head 3 seconds after his debut.

 

[Kiltman]

Haha, you said it. Killian will go down as the worst villain in any comic book movie ever. He was more menacing in the comic when he shot himself in the head 3 seconds after his debut.

Worse ever might be a stretch

Hector Hammond and Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy unfortunately are forever seared into existence.

He was pretty bad though yea

 

[marcvader]

Haha, you said it. Killian will go down as the worst villain in any comic book movie ever. He was more menacing in the comic when he shot himself in the head 3 seconds after his debut.

You know the word hyperbole? Anyways, I've been noticing lately, you're pretty good at it. Keep up the excellence.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Phase 2 has had a bad problem of defeating the main villain with a joke or comically.

Hopefully it doesn't continue.