Does marvel really have a problem with making their villains cool?

[Loki882]

As many have alluded to in this thread, their comic versions are always better than the movie versions.

Loki in the comics is about as bad as bad guys get. He's scum and the most deceitful person in the Marvel Universe, but the last Thor movie tried to turn him good for a brief while, which was just a horrible decision. Thankfully they amended that at the end of the film by showing his true intentions.

Red Skull is better in the comics, but I liked what they did with him in the movie.

Crimson Dynamo is obviously better in the comics. I don't know why they tried to combine a character nobody ever cared about (Blacklash) with him to make this Mickey Rourke nonsense, but it ruined the character. There's your example of a made-up villain not working out at all. Same with Killian/Mandarin. He's Iron Man's arch nemesis, but they made him a joke in the movie. Malekith, from what I remember, shows up even less than Kurse in the comics. He's a decent villain but wouldn't make the cut of Thor's top 10 enemies. I feel like they just put him in the movie so they could have free reign to alter him any way they wanted. Even though he's not a standout in the comics, he sucked in the movie.

I'm starting to see everyone's point. Marvel really, really sucks at handling villains. I would say the only one that exceeded his comic version was Obadiah Stane.

No, Loki isn't that way in the comics. At least he hasn't been that way for the last decade or so. He's very much in the "amoral" or "ambiguous" category these days, and thank god for that. He's so much more interesting that way.

 

[The Endless]

I'd be all for a Thanos Quest movie. Thanos is a complex and charismatic enough villain to lead his own movie. It'd also alleviate any concerns about him being anti-climatic. They've been building him up so long, they need to do something really special with the character.

Him going around acquiring the Infinity Gems through Machiavellian machinations, brute force and exploring why he wants them, what has caused him to be like this, how he became this feared cosmic despot. It'd be a unique thing to have a movie from the villains POV too. No need to make him sympathetic, but make his motivations clear and understandable.

 

[DrCosmic]

I personally am not sold on a Thanos Quest movie. Makes for a great subplot, but as a standalone it's not something I'd be trying to see opening night. If there were no other genre type films out though, I'd go see it.

I'd rather see it as a subplot in GotG 2, or even during the first half of Avengers, the threat getting nearer and nearer as the Avengers deal with Thanos' advanced/distracting forces.

 

[The Endless]

Oh i'd be first in line lol. I think Thanos Quest is actually a better story than Infinity Gauntlet itself. It goes into more existential themes about what it means to be omnipotent etc. Has some truly amazing sequences (his confrontations with Champion and The Runner especially) that would look stunning on the big screen. And paints Thanos as an interesting and complex fellow.

Marvel can't go the Saturday morning cartoon villain route with Thanos. It'd be a huge let down after all this build up and hype.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I thought the Red Skull was very memorable. I love that moment when he tries to kill the nazi soldier with his computer driven laser gun and then gets annoyed when it misses. The satisfaction on his face after the gun gets it right on the second try is just gold.

But I do agree in general that marvel has had several (too many?) unimpressive villains. Malekith, Mandarin/Killian, and Stane just don't do it for me at all. Blonsky and Vanko were mildly entertaining but not anywhere near great villains. That's five out of ten movies with a bit of a villain letdown (GotG isn't in theaters here yet), and two of the other five movies share the same (great) villain. This would most definitely be one area in which WB is yards out in front of everyone else - the only wb movies in the last 14 years that haven't had great villains were Catwoman and Green Lantern.

As for which Marvel villains have the potential to really shine? Well, six years ago I never would've answered that question with 'Loki', so I expect with the right story/actor combination they could come up with all kinds of possibilities.

But certainly the Kingpin should have the potential at the very least.

More like the only great villains they've had in the last 14 years are The Joker and Bane.

To me Malekith is their only bad villain so far, he was barely in the movie and he was so boring.

I think Aldrich Killian is extremely underrated, his plan was amazing! And it wasn't just some dumb revenge motivation which is what most people think unfortunately. Obadiah and Alexander Pierce were great too, specially Pierce. The reason I think these villains are overlooked is because they don't have crazy memorable costumes, the're just regular looking humans which in my opinion is what makes them a little more interesting.

 

[The Endless]

People who think Killian was motivated simply by revenge on Stark didn't pay attention to the film.

 

[Dark Raven]

I'm starting to see everyone's point. Marvel really, really sucks at handling villains. I would say the only one that exceeded his comic version was Obadiah Stane.

How so? Obadiah Stane in the comics completely ruined Tony Stark's life, took over his company, manipulated him so that he went back on the bottle, turned him into a homeless drunk and emotional wreck, stole all of Stark's wealth. blew up Stark's base of operations in California which killed one of his friends and nearly killed Jim Rhodes, and switched out the minds of Bethany Cabe and Madame Masque. All before he even became Iron Monger.

Stane in the movies doesn't come anywhere close to the ruthless genius chess master of the comics. Stane in the comics is one of Stark's most deadly and memorable enemies.

 

[Bayne]

I think they have a problem with killing off villains with potential to be really cool, and thats Red Skull and Ronan.

I don't believe the Red Skull is actually dead. As it happens, I just rewatched Cap1 and paid special attention to his 'death' scene, and while there is some minor face melting, it looks mostly like he gets pulled through the tesseract (which we know is essentially a door to other places in the universe). I expect he's been stuck somewhere out there in the universe, or maybe trapped inside the tesseract itself (wouldn't that be fairly close to one of the comic book storylines where Cap and Red Skull get trapped in some kind of cosmic energy together?), but he will return in the future. If we're really lucky, in Cap3.

 

[The Endless]

In The Winter Soldier story line from the comics Red Skull's soul was in the cosmic cube and drives Aleksander Lukin mad.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think Vincent D'Onofrio's Kingpin has the potential to be one of the best villains, especially since he'll have time to develop over the course of the series.

 

[Bayne]

More like the only great villains they've had in the last 14 years are The Joker and Bane.

To me Malekith is their only bad villain so far, he was barely in the movie and he was so boring.

I think Aldrich Killian is extremely underrated, his plan was amazing! And it wasn't just some dumb revenge motivation which is what most people think unfortunately. Obadiah and Alexander Pierce were great too, specially Pierce. The reason I think these villains are overlooked is because they don't have crazy memorable costumes, the're just regular looking humans which in my opinion is what makes them a little more interesting.

I disagree. Zod, Luthor, Scarecrow and Ra's al Ghul were all top notch in my book. Although, it remains true that WBs great villains were still all limited by the fact that WB just hasn't made many movies lately.

I do agree that Malekith was the worst, but not the only bad one. Killian just felt like a joke to the very end and Stane bored the hell out of me. Iron Man is a great movie in spite of stane.

And its really got nothing to do with how they looked. I loved Pierce (and as already mentioned, Lex Luthor and Ra's al Ghul). It's about personality and the effectiveness of their part in the story. I actually rank Vanko and Blonsky around mediocre because I thought they had great promise in the first half of their films - they had fantastic personality - but the climaxes really let them down.

 

[DrCosmic]

People who think Killian was motivated simply by revenge on Stark didn't pay attention to the film.

Agreed. When he thanked Tony he meant it, and he never initiated anything against Tony at any time. He did want Pepper as a prize though.

 

[DrCosmic]

Oh i'd be first in line lol. I think Thanos Quest is actually a better story than Infinity Gauntlet itself. It goes into more existential themes about what it means to be omnipotent etc. Has some truly amazing sequences (his confrontations with Champion and The Runner especially) that would look stunning on the big screen. And paints Thanos as an interesting and complex fellow.

Marvel can't go the Saturday morning cartoon villain route with Thanos. It'd be a huge let down after all this build up and hype.

True, they need to do *something*, and the action, for lack of a better word, is really cool and classically heroic, reminds me of Odysseus, but if the goal is his final confrontation with the Avengers, it's not like he's going to be outsmarting them, or necessarily being physical, so there's no payoff for that build up if that's what you do. The MCU Thanos is a malevolent force that promises to paint the starways with your blood and calls his inferiors 'boy.' He's not a philosopher, unfortunately... I think there'll be hints of that in there, but it doesn't seem to be the MCU character's role.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I'm pretty sure Brolin's "no former music video directors" comment was a dig at Zack Snyder.

First of all, Josh Brolin has NO ROOM to talk **** on Zack Snyder.

You wanna know why? Well that's because his voice for Thanos was lame as hell. Not in the least bit threatening or scary. It just sounded like Josh Brolin.

Thanos isn't fricking supposed to sound like some regular American dude. This guy is THE villain of the MCU and he sounds lame as hell IMO. I personally know people that could do a Thanos voice more threatening than Brolin's.

I'm not trying to turn this into a Marvel/DC thing, but Brolin's comment was a definite jab at Snyder. Just wait til Zack Snyder gives us his version of Darkseid. He's going to look AND sound so much more threatening and terrifying than this child friendly Thanos.

I was pumped for Thanos in GOTG. But once again, Marvel proves that they can't make truly threatening villains. The Marvel movies are great, but the villains are lame as hell. Thanos follows this trend. DC excels with scary villains, i can't wait to see their take on Darkseid, he will be as scary and threatening as Thanos should be.

 

[BoredGuy]

"I don't wanna make this a Marvel/DC thing, but Marvel sucks!! Child Friendly characters! Villains are so not threatening!!!"

Yeah I can't wait to see Darkseid, so he can chew on the scenery (Zod) while looking nothing like his comic counterpart (Bane, Parallax) and filmed in that crowd pleasing "relentlessly dark and gritty" style that everyone just loves for Superman. </sarcasm>

I thought Brolin sounded fine, plus I wouldn't be surprised if he sounds different in A3, considering he had like, 2 lines here?
Plus, the Snyder jab was kinda funny, I mean c'mon. Brolin's probably still a bit bitter at WB/DC after the abomination that was Jonah Hex.

 

[Victarion]

Yeah I can't wait to see Darkseid, so he can chew on the scenery (Zod) while looking nothing like his comic counterpart (Bane, Parallax) and filmed in that crowd pleasing "relentlessly dark and gritty" style that everyone just loves for Superman.

To be fair, what works in one medium doesn't necessarily work in another. Such is the case with some comics outfits.

 

[Shikamaru]

I'm surprised to see he hasn't been mentioned yet, but one of the most well-done villains in the MCU was Arnim Zola. Absolutely loved his little "appearance" in The Winter Soldier.

He was great too. I didn't want to mention him because he only had like one scene in TWS, but I loved the way he talked and overall just the whole way he came off. Hopefully they bring him back.

 

[DrCosmic]

I was also vastly underwhelmed by Thanos. I found him much more menacing at the end of the Avengers rather than the less pronounced features and blood threats we got in GotG.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I actually thought Obadiah Stane was decent (c'mon, it's Jeff Bridges).

Vanko was fun. He just got a crappy movie. Killian was... pretty weak. But we all had a laugh with the Mandarin.

Red Skull... talk about dull. They de-Nazified him, and turned him into an apolitical Bond villain.

Loki is great.

I don't even remember the name of the villain from Thor II.

I thought Winter Soldier didn't get enough attention. Pearce was... fairly forgettable.

With Ronan, he got kind of shafted because they had so many characters to focus on.

So, overall, yeah they could use some work.

 

[Oscorp]

I'm pretty sure Brolin's "no former music video directors" comment was a dig at Zack Snyder.

First of all, Josh Brolin has NO ROOM to talk **** on Zack Snyder.

You wanna know why? Well that's because his voice for Thanos was lame as hell. Not in the least bit threatening or scary. It just sounded like Josh Brolin.

Thanos isn't fricking supposed to sound like some regular American dude. This guy is THE villain of the MCU and he sounds lame as hell IMO. I personally know people that could do a Thanos voice more threatening than Brolin's.

I'm not trying to turn this into a Marvel/DC thing, but Brolin's comment was a definite jab at Snyder. Just wait til Zack Snyder gives us his version of Darkseid. He's going to look AND sound so much more threatening and terrifying than this child friendly Thanos.

I was pumped for Thanos in GOTG. But once again, Marvel proves that they can't make truly threatening villains. The Marvel movies are great, but the villains are lame as hell. Thanos follows this trend. DC excels with scary villains, i can't wait to see their take on Darkseid, he will be as scary and threatening as Thanos should be.

Hahahahahaha!!

 

[Rorschach2012]

Hahahahahaha!!

you pissed because im not suckling Marvel's teet?

I love the **** out of their movies, but it's generally accepted by fans that their villains are completely lacking. They know how to do their heroes well, but they fail on the villains time and time again.

Some of the hardest core MCU fans will even attest to this.

 

[Rorschach2012]

"I don't wanna make this a Marvel/DC thing, but Marvel sucks!! Child Friendly characters! Villains are so not threatening!!!"

Yeah I can't wait to see Darkseid, so he can chew on the scenery (Zod) while looking nothing like his comic counterpart (Bane, Parallax) and filmed in that crowd pleasing "relentlessly dark and gritty" style that everyone just loves for Superman. </sarcasm>

I thought Brolin sounded fine, plus I wouldn't be surprised if he sounds different in A3, considering he had like, 2 lines here?
Plus, the Snyder jab was kinda funny, I mean c'mon. Brolin's probably still a bit bitter at WB/DC after the abomination that was Jonah Hex.

you're seriously THE WORST type of fan, the kind of fan that can't listen to someone's negative criticism without accusing that person of hating the MCU. This place would be better off without annoying fans like yourself.

I love the **** out of the MCU. I celebrate basically the entire library. Just because I'm not impressed with many of the villains doesn't mean i think Marvel sucks. Fool

 

[Boom]

I'm sure Whedon will deliver on Thanos. I don't want to say it was a rush job, but didn't Brolin come on fairly late to shoot that sequence? Besides, it's kind of hard for the actor to dig in and get a feel for their character when they are literally handed just a few lines to say. Either way, Brolin worked with what he had, and I personally thought Thanos looked fantastic.

Put him front and center in Avengers 3, and I imagine this becomes a non-issue.

 

[Rorschach2012]

There needs to be some effects on Brolin's voice. As is, it is nowhere near threatening enough for Thanos. This is the supreme badass of the MCU, he needs to sound a lot scarier

 

[Boom]

I thought he sounded fine, myself. But then again I like "out of the box" approaches to these big, bad characters.

He's big, evil, and scary? Give him a deep, throaty, evil voice! It's a cliched and tried concept. Hence, a boring and generic one.