Dreamworks/Paramount's Ghost In The Shell

[Mad Ones]

If someone was to call me a derogatory name based on race because I'm white is not the same if someone were to call a black or Asian person a derogatory name based on race?

The fact that there isn't a derogatory word for white people with the same weight of history and hurt as there are for minorities should tell you something. Using derogatory terms to refer to minorities reinforces white supremacy, which is insidious and therefore needs to be called out. The oppressed group showing bias against the dominant group is either non-structural prejudice or an act of resistance/protest. A black person hating all white people (as problematic as that itself is) for a life of systemic anti-black oppression that benefits white people is not the same as a white person hating a black person because they are black and being privileged for that hate.

 

[sweetre15]

My brother and I watched the heck out of Dragon Ball growing up. Both DB and DBZ, and we are watching the new series now. We use to go to the specialty shop in our town to buy the figures. No one else in my family, male or female, has any idea what Dragon Ball is. Only a few friends we grew up with know what it is. This is projection done by fans. Using your logic, it should be as big as Batman or Star Wars. It isn't, and never has been.

That's funny though because everyone I used to go to school with and even co workers to this day know what Dragonball Z is. I mean, even DBZ fan films (the ones that are well put together) range high in views on YouTube.

With DBE, the problems and why that movie did disappointing numbers was because are already posted above....Why would people waste their time with a movie if even the trailers look unappealing?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The fact that there isn't a derogatory word for white people with the same weight of history and hurt as there are for minorities should tell you something. Using derogatory terms to refer to minorities reinforces white supremacy, which is insidious and therefore needs to be called out. The oppressed group showing bias toward the dominant group is either non-structural prejudice or an act of resistance/protest. A black person hating all white people (as problematic as that itself is) for a life of systemic anti-black oppression that benefits white people is not the same as a white person hating a black person because they are black and being privileged for that hate.

I like how you base racism around white peoples interaction with others. As if racism only exist in the US and thus is limited to the definition as presented by American writers and activist. Heck, even limiting it to the West is clearly problematic.

 

[Monochron]

If someone was to call me a derogatory name based on race because I'm white is not the same if someone were to call a black or Asian person a derogatory name based on race?

Right who could forget the horrible oppression of white slavery and internment camps that words like "honky" and "cracker" date back to in the US?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's funny though because everyone I used to go to school with and even co workers to this day know what Dragonball Z is. I mean, even DBZ fan films (the ones that are well put together) range high in views on YouTube.

With DBE, the problems and why that movie did disappointing numbers was because are already posted above....Why would people waste their time with a movie if even the trailers look unappealing?

The same reason Batman and Robin made 238m in 1997 money. Because if the brand is that strong, the brand is that strong. It isn't you don't see massive releases of the animated films over here, even as the last couple have done very well by anime standards in limited runs.

 

[DarkKnight]

The fact that there isn't a derogatory word for white people with the same weight of history and hurt as there are for minorities should tell you something. Using derogatory terms to refer to minorities reinforces white supremacy, which is insidious and therefore needs to be called out. The oppressed group showing bias toward the dominant group is either non-structural prejudice or an act of resistance/protest. A black person hating all white people (as problematic as that itself is) for a life of systemic anti-black oppression that benefits white people is not the same as a white person hating a black person because they are black and being privileged for that hate.

It's obvious that we are not going to agree. That's fine. I have no ill feelings towards you because of it. However there are plenty of derogatory terms for white people. I've been called some on a couple of occasions by some fools that apparently wanted to single me out due to where I was and because I was white. Why? Because I'm white and was on a date with a black girl yup that's right.
Also, I'm sure we won't agree on this one but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. there is no such thing as white privilege if that's what you meant. Not anymore. Equal opportunities are everywhere in modern times. Only thing holding anyone back in modern day America is themselves.

Now I guess we should get back on topic before the admins come and correct us all. But if you care to discuss it further I'd be more than happy to through PM or another thread, again I have no ill feelings towards you. If fact I look forward to more Superherohype discussions with you.

But back on topic, As I said before, I really hope this film is a good success. A good popular live action anime adaption needs to happens so we can get more of them. So many animus I'd love to see in live action.

 

[DarkKnight]

Right who could forget the horrible oppression of white slavery and internment camps that words like "honky" and "cracker" date back to in the US?

My friend those days are long gone and an unfortunate place in history. But yes. If a different race were to call me a derogatory name based on me being white and they are doing so with hatred towards me because I'm white it is still being racist. Just like the other way around. It shouldn't be happening but it does. It's 2016 for Gods sake. Racism sucks period. But if people don't understand it does in fact exist not just from whites but any race you are part of the problem.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

My friend those days are long gone and an unfortunate place in history. But yes. If a different race were to call me a derogatory name based on me being white and they are doing so with hatred towards me because I'm whit it is still being racist. Just like the other way around. It shouldn't be happening but it does. It's 2016 for Gods sake.

Names don't scare me. It is when violence happens.

 

[DarkKnight]

Names don't scare me. It is when violence happens.

Names, violence, racism period from any race sucks. It's a true shame it still exists. And it does exist from all sides. It's sad and saddens me people still consider its only racist if it comes from white people. Such a shame.

 

[sweetre15]

The same reason Batman and Robin made 238m in 1997 money. Because if the brand is that strong, the brand is that strong. It isn't you don't see massive releases of the animated films over here, even as the last couple have done very well by anime standards in limited runs.

Difference being that wasn't the start of a franchise and it had the fact that it was a fourth film in a franchise of generally well received movies to go on. Along side that people were actually able to recognize Batman there

In the promotion (or lack thereof) for Dragonball Evolution, no one would have been able to recognize that was Dragonball at all until the names were mentioned.

 

[sweetre15]

I mean look at Avatar the Last Airbender, when the trailer came out, despite the whitewashing, people were buzzing it about it because it looked visually enticing and the trailers were well put together. It even did financially well in its first week or so because it was promoted and hyped well along with fans of the series still being curious enough to go see it...before word of mouth and bad critical reception killed it in the later weeks.

You mean to tell me, Airbender is more renown than DBZ? I mean it's indeed popular in its own right but still

 

[Logan0327]

I mean look at Avatar the Last Airbender, when the trailer came out, despite the whitewashing, people were buzzing it about it because it looked visually enticing and the trailers were well put together. It even did financially well in its first week or so because it was promoted and hyped well along with fans of the series still being curious enough to go see it...before word of mouth and bad critical reception killed it in the later weeks.

You mean to tell me, Airbender is more renown than DBZ? I mean it's indeed popular in its own right but still

it was more popular at the time the movie came out yes

TLA was a hugely popular Nickelodeon tv show that ended 2 years before the live action movie hit

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I mean look at Avatar the Last Airbender, when the trailer came out, despite the whitewashing, people were buzzing it about it because it looked visually enticing and the trailers were well put together. It even did financially well in its first week or so because it was promoted and hyped well along with fans of the series still being curious enough to go see it...before word of mouth and bad critical reception killed it in the later weeks.

You mean to tell me, Airbender is more renown than DBZ? I mean it's indeed popular in its own right but still

The Last Airbender is not an anime and actually has a large American fanbase as it was aired prominently on Nick. It is kind of like comparing Spongebob to DBZ. Spongebob wins.

 

[Logan0327]

yup TLA also had a huge female fanbase

 

[DarthSkywalker]

yup TLA also had a huge female fanbase

I got into it late, but when I saw the shipping wars, I almost passed out from the laughter.

Then I got involved. Aang and Katara 4 life.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

There is this thing about a lot of anime, where the make a lot of their characters distinctly look white in comparison with other characters in the same anime. But they are suppose to be of Japanese or other Asian origin.

If the anime can use white people then why not the American adaptations.

The only difference is language at that point.

Are people really going to cry bloody murder if Naruto is played by a white kid with blonde hair and blue eyes in an American version?

Naruto is white and Goku is Asian looking.

The major's race doesn't matter because she can switch synthetic bodies whenever she wants and those synthetic bodies can look white, black or green...

 

[craigdbfan]

The fact that there isn't a derogatory word for white people with the same weight of history and hurt as there are for minorities should tell you something. Using derogatory terms to refer to minorities reinforces white supremacy, which is insidious and therefore needs to be called out. The oppressed group showing bias against the dominant group is either non-structural prejudice or an act of resistance/protest. A black person hating all white people (as problematic as that itself is) for a life of systemic anti-black oppression that benefits white people is not the same as a white person hating a black person because they are black and being privileged for that hate.

In the U.S. maybe (even then other European ethnic groups suffered big time to other Northern European groups that were here before). The Caucasian race as a whole has gone through probably the greatest forms of human crisis and atrocities more so than any other racial group has. Sectarian and tribalism in Europe has led to millions upon millions to die due to massive differences in ideology, rapid rise in technology and land acquisition.

Tell that to certain European ethnic groups that for hundreds of years killed each other due to tribalism. Tell every single Germanic tribes hundreds of years ago when they were subjugated to even more brutal forms of slavery for hundred of years on end by Roman rule.

Do I see modern day Germans asking Italians for major reparations or constantly calling them out for it? No. Why? Because through all that the Germanic tribes ended up taking over Europe and eventually created the Anglo centric world we have lived in for years. They didn't cry but used wit, power, intelligence, capital, influence and cunning to essentially take over the world.

Now the sectarian/tribal nature of the world has expanded to levels we've never seen. There are so many groups with their own self interest calling foul or trying to take power that it creates the current dilemma we're in.

Looking for scapegoats or marginalizing any group in history has proven to be deadly to civilizations.

It's happening again and it'll keep happening until humans are no more.

It's ideas like the one's you're perpetuating that cause more harm than good to be quite frank.

 

[sweetre15]

The Last Airbender is not an anime and actually has a large American fanbase as it was aired prominently on Nick. It is kind of like comparing Spongebob to DBZ. Spongebob wins.

Airbender is still an Anime influenced animation and just as it was popular when it was aired on Nick, the same thing can be said about when DBZ was aired on toonami the first time and why it got aired on Nicktoons later and is now back on Toonami.

If the movie was promoted, looked enticing, and people were able to recognize that "hey that's goku" without being told, it would have properly generated buzz and interest.

 

[Mad Ones]

I like how you base racism around white peoples interaction with others. As if racism only exist in the US and thus is limited to the definition as presented by American writers and activist. Heck, even limiting it to the West is clearly problematic.

It's not my basis, but this conversation was on Hollywood and the West so of course that's the focus? Of course racism privileges and oppresses different groups in other parts of the world.

It's obvious that we are not going to agree. That's fine. I have no ill feelings towards you because of it. However there are plenty of derogatory terms for white people. I've been called some on a couple of occasions by some fools that apparently wanted to single me out due to where I was and because I was white. Why? Because I'm white and was on a date with a black girl yup that's right.
Also, I'm sure we won't agree on this one but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. there is no such thing as white privilege if that's what you meant. Not anymore. Equal opportunities are everywhere in modern times. Only thing holding anyone back in modern day America is themselves.

You are not the first white person to say white privilege does not exist and you won't be the last.

In the U.S. maybe (even then other European ethnic groups suffered big time to other Northern European groups that were here before). The Caucasian race as a whole has gone through probably the greatest forms of human crisis and atrocities more so than any other racial group has. Sectarian and tribalism in Europe has led to millions upon millions to die due to massive differences in ideology, rapid rise in technology and land acquisition.

Tell that to certain European ethnic groups that for hundreds of years killed each other due to tribalism. Tell every single Germanic tribes hundreds of years ago when they were subjugated to even more brutal forms of slavery for hundred of years on end by Roman rule.

Do I see modern day Germans asking Italians for major reparations or constantly calling them out for it? No. Why? Because through all that the Germanic tribes ended up taking over Europe and eventually created the Anglo centric world we have lived in for years. They didn't cry but used wit, power, intelligence, capital, influence and cunning to essentially take over the world.

Now the sectarian/tribal nature of the world has expanded to levels we've never seen. There are so many groups with their own self interest calling foul or trying to take power that it creates the current dilemma we're in.

Looking for scapegoats or marginalizing any group in history has proven to be deadly to civilizations.

It's happening again and it'll keep happening until humans are no more.

It's ideas like the one's you're perpetuating that cause more harm than good to be quite frank.

How so? We are talking about the repercussions of modernism's violences that still haunt the West. America has enslaved and interned entire races of people relatively recently as far as history is concerned. That legacy is manifesting its ugly head in American politics right now.

Are you saying that people challenging oppression and racism right now shouldn't "cry" and instead should use "wit, power, intelligence, capital, influence and cunning to essentially take over the world"? That's so irresponsible and reduces down to victim blaming. That's saying "if you're oppressed it's your fault". Can't quite believe what I'm hearing.

 

[Sithborg]

We still are talking about a movie, right?

 

[craigdbfan]

Race, race, race, race, race and some race. Race.

Race.

It's a joke now at this point. The majority of Universities in the U.S now have an Asian majority. Yet there is little to no outcry (it's hardly covered at least) and rightfully so. They did better than others thus their placement.

Should blacks, whites, and any other group that isn't Asian complain and say that there is a racial injustice going on in the University system? Of course that will never happen because it's not Whites at the forefront.

Whites are now being turned into public enemy #1 from pretty much everyone. Including other whites.

Massive populations of disgustingly poor whites across the U.S are ignored because they're white and they have automatic privilege (say wealthy white liberals that have never faced a day of poverty) yet reality says otherwise.

This is all one stupid joke that has been propelled by both extreme racism and slavery from whites from the past and now the liberal progressive movement is launching itself to the other extreme trying to make amends but simply making things worse.

Extremes birth more extremities. That's the vicious cycle we're in.

There is white privleage and it's all consolidated by extreme wealthy white liberal groups that make a living by demonizing groups and creating division to keep this destructive charade going. The extreme wealthy white right doesn't do any favors by ignoring social issues as well.

What a mess.

I'll take it a step further. Silicon Valley which is made up of primarily Asian-Americans and White Americans that lean to the far left yet have participated in the biggest gentrification project ever seen in the Bay Area/Northern California. Oakland had to do an emergency rent board control meeting because of how out of hand it has gotten. It will displace hundreds in just under a decade.

Wealthy companies like Google and Apple all primarily spearheaded by minorities yet still follow the same ugly systemic racism that makes poor whites and black suffer even more that according to most are only done by evil right wing corporate white men.

 

[Mad Ones]

Race, race, race, race, race and some race. Race.

Race.

It's a joke now at this point. The majority of Universities in the U.S now have an Asian majority. Yet there is little to no outcry (it's hardly covered at least) and rightfully so. They did better than others thus their placement.

Should blacks, whites, and any other group that isn't Asian complain and say that there is a racial injustice going on in the University system? Of course that will never happen because it's not Whites at the forefront.

Whites are now being turned into public enemy #1 from pretty much everyone. Including other whites.

Massive populations of disgustingly poor whites across the U.S are ignored because they're white and they have automatic privilage yet reality says otherwise.

This is all one stupid joke that has been propelled by both extreme racism and slavery from whites from the past and now the liberal progressive movement is launching itself to the other extreme trying to make amends but simply making things worse.

Extremes birth more extremities. That's the vicious cycle we're in.

I'm sorry that you think the lived experience of oppression from modern legacies of violence is a joke. Sorry that you think it's a joke that those negatively affected by racism are developing tools to communicate that lived experience. But it's not going anywhere. And no one is ignoring white people in poverty. It's ridiculous that to have a conversation about racism there has to be someone to say "what about white people?" Just because the topic is about racial minorities at the moment does not preclude white people who might suffer from classism. White people in poverty in America are oppressed by the class system, not racism. Your discussion on Germanic tribes and white people in poverty takes the conversation even further from Ghost in the Shell and its perpetuation of typical Hollywood casting practices.

Edit: You note an "Asian majority" in universities. Why don't we see those kinds of numbers represented in Hollywood movies (the topic at hand).

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Airbender is still an Anime influenced animation and just as it was popular when it was aired on Nick, the same thing can be said about when DBZ was aired on toonami the first time and why it got aired on Nicktoons later and is now back on Toonami.

If the movie was promoted, looked enticing, and people were able to recognize that "hey that's goku" without being told, it would have properly generated buzz and interest.

You do realize the Toonami crazw was years ago right? Like decades ago now. Even thought they have brought it back, it isn't near what it was, and what it was never what you get from the biggest shows on Nick, because Nick is something kids have always watched.

TLA flick was inbetween the end of the series and the hype for Korra. It was a horrible flick, and still made 319m WW. More then 5 times what Dragon Ball Evolution made. There is no contest here.

 

[jed]

you got 3 live action death note movies with all asian cast but US does their version and now its time to boycott lol

Okay. You have a point.


But, tell me, what do "Dragonball:Evolution", "Street Fighter:Legend of Chun Li", "King of Fighters", "Pan", "Aloha", "Speed Racer", "DOA: Dead or Alive" have in common besides whitewashing?


They all flopped horribly at the box office.

 

[craigdbfan]

@Mad Ones Haha you side stepped everything I wrote. Nicely done.

This is about Ghost in the Shell and from this point on the race issue is over on here. I'm including myself in this.

We've had race completely derail these anime to live action threads before. In fact I was here for that in the very beginning with Dragonball Evolution.

It's not happening again.

So this is what I'm going to propose. Make a thread about Hollywood racism or whatever you want to call it and discuss that social issue there.

Any more posts derailing this thread like the ones we see here (I'm including myself). Will simply be deleted as it literally takes away from the subject at hand and that is Ghost in the Shell being turned into a live action film.

If you want to talk about the social and race implications of it then simply create a new thread in the misc film section.

That's the final word on the matter.