DTL Season 5-Timely Conference Championship

[DTL Commish]

The rules:
This is one of four threads containing matches.
Due to the holiday, these threads will be in use for 9 days. Days 1-4 (Mar 30 - Apr 3) are strictly setup time for owners to plead their cases, tell us their team’s strategies, breakdown the match ups, and do whatever else they can/want to do to try and convince you that their team would pull out a victory. Please, let the owners do this on their own with no help.

On Day 5 (Apr 4) I will post and tell everyone that voting may begin. Any votes cast before I open voting will not count. Look over the matchups and read the strategies, and take into consideration how in-character each character is. Afterwards, use your best judgment to decide who you think has the best chance to win the match. (Note: The length of a writeup the discretion of the owner. Do not punish owners just for having a shorter writeup.)

To vote, post the team names you think will prevail in each match. Remember to vote for all matches or your vote will not count! The teams with the highest vote total at the end of the 9th day (Apr 8) will get a W while the other will get an L. (Equal votes will result in a tie.)

The battleground for this week is: Themyscira

The Deadly Dozen
The Magus (Adam Warlock) (MU) - superstrength/durability, energy projection, teleportation, phasing, flight, can steal souls and manipulate spiritual energy via the Soul Gem
Doomsday-Brainiac (DU) - super-strength/speed/durability, supergenius intellect, telepathy, adaptation
Doom 2099 (MM) - super-durability/strength/stamina/reflexes, technopathy, energy blasts, force fields, invisibility, phasing, flight
The Ghost (MR) - invisibility, intangibility, high tech weaponry, controls computer systems
Vandal Savage (1 Million) (DR) - immortal, enhanced physical stats, genius intelligence, various weapons and technology from the far future

VS.

Chaos & Order
Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) (DU) - Wields a ring that creates hard light constructs limited only by imagination and willpower.
Nimrod (MU) - Sentinel from the future. Advanced technology, weapons, super strength and durability, sensors, adaptation, regeneration.
Flash (Jay Garrick) (DM) - Super speed. Special abilities by tapping into the Speed Force.
Ambrose Chase (DR) - Localized selective physics distortion field.
Proctor (MR) - Super strength, durability, teleportation, energy blasts, Ebony Blade.

 

[XFanTim]

The Deadly Dozen
The Magus (Adam Warlock) (MU) - superstrength/durability, energy projection, teleportation, phasing, flight, can steal souls and manipulate spiritual energy via the Soul Gem
Doomsday-Brainiac (DU) - super-strength/speed/durability, supergenius intellect, telepathy, adaptation
Doom 2099 (MM) - super-durability/strength/stamina/reflexes, technopathy, energy blasts, force fields, invisibility, phasing, flight
The Ghost (MR) - invisibility, intangibility, high tech weaponry, controls computer systems
Vandal Savage (1 Million) (DR) - immortal, enhanced physical stats, genius intelligence, various weapons and technology from the far future

vs.

Chaos & Order
Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) (DU) - Wields a ring that creates hard light constructs limited only by imagination and willpower.
Nimrod (MU) - Sentinel from the future. Advanced technology, weapons, super strength and durability, sensors, adaptation, regeneration.
Flash (Jay Garrick) (DM) - Super speed. Special abilities by tapping into the Speed Force.
Ambrose Chase (DR) - Localized selective physics distortion field.
Proctor (MR) - Super strength, durability, teleportation, energy blasts, Ebony Blade.

Note:
Just to change things up a bit, I decided that this week I'd do my writeup in the style of my opponent. If I'd been up against LV, you all might have been getting a bunch of stick figures. But since I'm up against Wieg, I'm going to do my best imitation of a Wiegeabo-style writeup, complete with dialogue-heavy prep-time. Oh, and I'm writing the whole thing from his team's perspective. Don't get confused and vote for him. (You know, unless you actually like his better.)

Of course, I'm a bit more long-winded than Wieg tends to be, but I got my prep-time up early enough that you should all have time to read it. The battle will be up in a little bit.

Prep-time

"The Deadly Dozen," Kyle says, reading the title on the folder in Proctor's hands. "Great, we beat these guys once already."

Proctor flips the folder open and glances over the list of descriptions. "Guess again. This looks like almost a completely different team than the one we faced before. I only recognize the Ghost."

Kyle looks down at the list and his heart sinks. From the descriptions alone, he can already tell that they're facing a much more powerful lineup this time.

Kyle: Doomsday-Brainiac I've fought before.

Proctor: So I assume you're prepared to handle him?

Kyle: Actually . . . he kind of kicked my butt last time.

Proctor (looking disgusted): Great.

Kyle (defenisively): Well, it wasn't just me! He took down practically the whole JLA! He beat Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, Orion, Plastic Man, Huntress . , ,

Proctor: Better and better.

Kyle: Not Superman, though. Superman beat him. Slapped a telepathy blocker on his head to force Doomsday out, then trapped him in a transporter loop.

Proctor: And you see a bunch of psi-blockers and transporters lying around?

At this Ambrose chimes in. "Hey, where the hell are we anyway? Ancient Greece?"

Kyle: I don't think so. If I'm not mistaken it's...

Jay: Themyscira. I scouted the whole place while you kids were talking, and this is definitely Wonder Woman's island.

Kyle: Well, that could work to our advantage. Despite their love of marble columns, I believe the Amazon's have some pretty advanced tech lying around.

Proctor (scowling): No good. We've got to assume whatever tech there is could be compromised by our opponents. We already know Ghost can control technology, and apparently Doom is a technopath. Not to mention, if he's any relation to a Dr. Doom I know, then he's one of the foremost evil genius's in history.

Kyle: So's Brainiac. Plus he's got Coulan tech, high level alien stuff. Vandal Savage is more of a strategic genius, but this appears to be the version from the 853rd century.

Proctor's scowl somehow manages to deepen even further. "The 853rd century?"

Kyle: Yeah, he's immortal. The JLA visited his time, but I never really learned Vandal's full capabilities.

Suddenly, Kyle breaks into a grin. "I can't believe I forgot! Ambrose, this is your old team! I'm sure you can tell us exactly what they're capable of.

For the first time in the brief period that he's been a part of the team, Ambrose looks sheepish. "Er, not exactly."

Proctor: Not exactly?

Ambrose: Well, Doom and Savage joined the team after I left. And the only time I worked with Ghost was the one battle against you guys.

Kyle (disappointed): OK, but what about Magus. Can you tell us anything about him?

Ambrose: I did fight alongside Magus. One time.

Kyle: Well, that's one more time than any of us. What did you learn?

Ambrose: Well, I didn't get to see much. I was off fighting Deadpool and Nemesis, while he was dealing with their heavy hitters. I know this much, though -- he kicked the crap out of Kayla Ballantine.

Kyle, Jay, and Proctor: Who?

Ambrose: Hey, that reminds me! I did meet Vandal Savage! He was on some team called the Who, or something like that. As a matter of fact, I kicked his ass.

Kyle (surprised): Really?

Ambrose: Yeah, snuck up behind him and crushed him with my gravity field. He barely put up a fight.

Kyle: That really doesn't sound like the Vandal Savage I know.

Jay: I may have the answer to that. I've noticed that whenever the cosmic beings who forced us into this tournament seem to lose interest in one of the teams, that team becomes unfocussed, almost like they're just going through the motions instead of really putting up a fight.

[Author's Note: Who's team was ownerless, and at the time I hadn't read anything with Vandal 1 Million, so I just had Ambrose beat him quickly.]

Kyle: Wow, how'd you figure that out?

Jay: I don't like to brag, son, but I can think faster than all of you put together.

Proctor: All that means is we have to expect Savage to be a far greater threat this time around. Which leaves us fighting in a tech-heavy battlefield against a team loaded with technopaths and supergeniuses. And in case you didn't notice, one of our teammates is a robot! What the hell is Nimrod supposed to be good for?

Until now, Nimrod had stood by silently, scanning the area for threats. But at the mention of his name, he speaks. "KILL ALL MUTANTS."

Kyle: Um, no mutants here big guy. Anyway, I can only assume Nimrod is meant to fight Magus, who it says here has the Soul Gem, same as our teammate Adam Warlock. Nimrod, you don't have a soul, do you?

Nimrod: INVALID QUERY.

Kyle: Yeah, that's what I thought. Magus is probably some sort of alternate version of Adam Warlock, so those of us with souls better steer clear of him. I'm betting Nimrod can take him, though.

Proctor: We can't assume that Magus is merely on par with Warlock. All we have to go on is what's written here. "Superstrength, durability, energy projection", all of those could be on a level well beyond Warlock's. [Author's Note: Yep.] Plus, "teleportation, phasing,..." I don't remember Warlock having those powers.

Kyle: Still, it makes sense to assume --

Proctor: That Ion guy we fought, he wasn't any more powerful than you, was he?

Kyle: Point taken. Still, I think we just have to hope Nimrod can beat him. I'll be busy fighting Doomsday-Brainiac.

Proctor: Didn't you just get done telling us Doomsday was way out of your league?

Kyle (offended): Hey, now I --

Proctor: I'm sorry, I meant to say "Didn't you just get done telling us Doomsday stomped all over your League?"

Kyle: I assume you have a better plan?

Proctor: Don't I always?

 

[XFanTim]

The Deadly Dozen
The Magus (Adam Warlock) (MU) - superstrength/durability, energy projection, teleportation, phasing, flight, can steal souls and manipulate spiritual energy via the Soul Gem
Doomsday-Brainiac (DU) - super-strength/speed/durability, supergenius intellect, telepathy, adaptation
Doom 2099 (MM) - super-durability/strength/stamina/reflexes, technopathy, energy blasts, force fields, invisibility, phasing, flight
The Ghost (MR) - invisibility, intangibility, high tech weaponry, controls computer systems
Vandal Savage (1 Million) (DR) - immortal, enhanced physical stats, genius intelligence, various weapons and technology from the far future

vs.

Chaos & Order
Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) (DU) - Wields a ring that creates hard light constructs limited only by imagination and willpower.
Nimrod (MU) - Sentinel from the future. Advanced technology, weapons, super strength and durability, sensors, adaptation, regeneration.
Flash (Jay Garrick) (DM) - Super speed. Special abilities by tapping into the Speed Force.
Ambrose Chase (DR) - Localized selective physics distortion field.
Proctor (MR) - Super strength, durability, teleportation, energy blasts, Ebony Blade.

Note:All the dialogue you see below actually takes place during prep-time. The parts that aren't dialogue take place during the battle itself. Basically, what I'm doing is having Proctor describing his plan for the battle interspersed with my descriptions of how the battle actually plays out. Think of it as my homage to the writeup Wieg did against me in Week 5.

BATTLE

Proctor: First things first. We don't want our opponents to be able to use any of the Amazon tech against us. Kyle can take it out with an electromagnetic pulse. He's not allowed to attack the opposing regulars, but if he uses the EMP now, before the battle begins, they're still out of phase with us. Meaning he can fry the Amazon tech while leaving our opponents weapons intact. Nimrod, surely you have some defense against an EMP?

Nimrod: ACTIVATING PROTOCOL MAGNETO-7 -- EM-REPELLING MAGNETIC FORCEFIELD

Proctor: Excellent.

Green Lantern, Ambrose Chase, and Proctor vs. Doomsday-Brainiac

Proctor: Now that that's taken care off, we can focus on how we'll take down the opposing team. Doomsday is fast and deadly, so the only way any of us are getting close to him is if he doesn't see us coming. Kyle, you'll need to make yourself invisible and block out Doomsday's telepathy . . .

Doomsday scans the battlefield, his superhuman eyes and telepathic mind working in unison to find any trace of his target, the Green Lantern. Suddenly, a blast of emerald energy strikes from right under his nose, the force of the blast carrying him aloft. Kyle's aim is true, and Doomsday falls straight toward the waiting Ambrose Chase. Although suddenly Doomsday isn't falling at all, as Ambrose inverts gravity to hold Doomsday aloft.

In no time at all Brainiac's brilliant mind has devised a counter attack: clapping Doomsday's mighty hands together to generate a shockwave that will tear the flesh from Ambrose's bones. Ordinarily, Doomsday could execute this attack virtually instantaneously, but thanks to Ambrose slowing time around Doomsday it takes him a fraction of a second. Lucky for Ambrose, that fraction is all Proctor needs to teleport in next to Doomsday, and then teleport him straight into orbit.

As soon as Doomsday is out of Chase's physics-altering field, his full speed returns. Proctor does his best to scramble Doomsday's alien brain chemistry, but the monster adapts almost immediately. That's still not quite fast enough, as Proctor manages to teleport himself back to Earth.

Though gasping for air, Proctor can't help but smile. The biggest threat to his team has just been removed from the battlefield. So far, the plan is working perfectly.

Flash vs. Doom 2099

Proctor: Jay, while we're dealing with Doomsday it'll be up to you to keep our weaker opponents occupied. If Doom 2099 is related to Dr. Doom he probably derives his powers from a high-tech battle suit, as does Ghost. You can use your speed to evade their attacks, then phase them right out of their armor.

Jay Garrick races across the island, searching for his opponents. Invisible or no, Doom and Ghost can't evade him forever, not if he systematically searches every square foot of the battlefield.

The Flash sprints up a long flight of stairs leading to some sort of Parthenon-like temple. At the highest stair, he finds what he's looking for -- slamming headlong into the invisible Doom's forcefield. The force of the collision knocks Jay back, leaving him momentarily stunned . . . and falling. Jay may be almost the fastest man on Earth, but everyone falls towards Earth at the same acceleration of 9.8 meters per second per second. Doom's cybernetically enhanced reflexes give him more than enough time to take aim as Jay falls and unleash a massive energy blast.

Vibrating, Jay phases and allows the blast to pass through him . . . just as Doom anticipated that he would. Which is why he combined the energy beam with a high-frequency sonic attack, inaudible to those moving at ordinary speed but unbearable to the ultra-fast moving speedster. Jay blacks out even before he hits the ground, and a second energy blast ensures he won't be waking up.

[Note: Doom would have discussed Flash's capabilities with Vandal Savage, who has some experience dealing with speedsters. In fact, Vandal once used a similar sonic weapon to take down Jesse Quick.]

Nimrod vs. Magus

Proctor: Nimrod, your job --

Nimrod: KILL ALL MUTANTS

Proctor (exasperated): Your job will be to battle the Magus, who we suspect is similar to Adam Warlock. You'll have to hold your own against him at least until Kyle comes to help. Understand?

Nimrod: TARGET: WARLOCK. TECHNO-ORGANIC ALIEN. KNOWN ASSOCIATE OF THE XAVIER FACTION.

Kyle: No, I don't think that's the right Warlock. Anyway, we're talking about the Magus.

Nimrod: MAGUS, LEADER OF THE ALIEN TECHNARCHY. FATHER OF WARLOCK, TECHNO-ORGANIC ALIEN, KNOWN ASSOCIATE OF THE XAVIER FACTION.

Kyle: No, no, he's some kind of cosmic-powered guy, uses the Soul Gem --

Proctor: He's a mutant. Big-time mutant. You know what that means?

Nimrod (hopefully): KILL ALL MUTANTS?

Proctor: You got it.

Nimrod (happily): KILL ALL MUTANTS!

The Magus is proving to be even more trouble than Proctor had feared. Nimrod is used to fighting mutants, and occasionally other terrestrial threats like the Juggernaut. Such a high-powered cosmic foe is something new to him, and his programming is finding it surprisingly difficult to determine an effective countermeasure. The Magus, in contrast, has thousands of years of combat experience to prepare him for whatever attacks Nimrod can muster.

A plasma blast passes harmlessly through the Magus's phased body. Magus teleports himself out of the way of an ultrasonic blast. He appears behind Nimrod and slams him through a huge marble column. The building the column supported comes crumbling down all around the robot, but Nimrod's forcefield shields him from the falling rubble.

Nimrod fires a disintegrator beam, but at the same time the Soul Gem on Magus's brow projects an energy shield. The disintegration ray deflects off the shield and vaporizes a portion of Nimrod's chest, but the robots circuitry immediately begins knitting itself back together. Magus charges his opponent, trying to finish him off with a barrage of super-strong punches. This time it is Nimrod who teleports, appearing behind the Magus and throwing a super-strong punch of his own.

Magus spins and parries the blow, and snaps open a teleportation portal between himself and Nimrod as the robot punches again. Nimrod's arm passes through the portal, and is amputated as Magus slams the portal shut. But again Nimrod begins to regenerate as soon as the wound is dealt, and the fight continues.

Ambrose Chase and Proctor vs. Vandal Savage, the Ghost, and Doom 2099

Proctor: Once Doomsday is taken care of, Ambrose and I can help finish off Doom 2099 and the Ghost . . .

When last he faced Vandal Savage, Ambrose had Invisible Woman on his team to help give him the element of surprise. This time, he and Vandal meet face to face. Ambrose whips out his guns and fires, but at the same time Vandal touches a small ring and his body is instantly covered in a suit of metal armor, with razor-sharp blades protruding in all directions. The bullets deflect off this metal shell.

Ambrose generates a powerful gravity field around Vandal, pinning him to the floor under the weight of his own armor. At the same time, the invisible Ghost takes aim at the back of Chase's head and opens fire with a gun of his own. The Ghost assumed that Ambrose wouldn't be prepared to deflect a bullet he didn't see coming, but Ambrose, knowing he'd be facing two invisible opponents in Ghost and Doom, prepared for just such a situation. He's been maintaining a fluctuating gravitational field all around himself, and now this field causes Ghost's shot to miss the mark. Ambrose returns fire, but the Ghost has switched from invisibility to intangibility and the bullet flies straight through.

Observing from nearby, Proctor sees the opportunity he's been waiting for as Ghost goes visible. He teleports in right next to the Ghost and slashes at him with the Ebony Blade. Ghost knows from their previous battle that he can be cut by Proctor's blade even while phased. He dives to one side, but the Ebony Blade grazes him, putting a long gash in his armor and leaving it sparking and non-functional. Proctor is about to administer the coup-de-grace when Doom appears in front of him. Proctor teleports out of the path of Doom's blast in the nick of time.

Appearing right behind Doom, Proctor brings the Ebony Blade slashing down . . . and is surprised when it deflects off Doom's armor. Doom's battlesuit just so happens to be laced with adamantium, the one element that the Ebony Blade can't penetrate. Doom's cybernetically enhanced reflexes don't give Proctor a chance to correct his error. Doom spins around and incinerates Proctor with a burst of energy faster than he can hope to react.

Proctor's teammate, Ambrose Chase, is faring a bit better, as he has his guns trained on the now defenseless Ghost. But as Ambrose tries to squeeze the trigger, he finds his fingers won't respond. Pain shoots up and down his limbs, as his nervous system is consumed at the molecular level by Vandal Savage's nano-disassemblers. With the nanites inside his own body, it's impossible for Ambrose to attack them with his gravity-field without crushing himself in the process. Instead he slows down time around himself, but this is only delaying the inevitable.

With Ambrose on the defensive, Vandal has regained his feet. He looks Ambrose in the eye and takes but a fraction of a second to savor his revenge for his previous defeat. Then a slash from his bladed armor takes Ambrose Chase's head off.

Green Lantern and Nimrod vs. the Magus

Proctor: . . . while Kyle helps out against the Magus. We don't know much about him, but hopefully the combined force of Nimrod and Green Lantern together can handle him.

A blast of emerald energy knocks the Magus back, as Kyle joins the fight alongside Nimrod. But no sooner does he arrive, than Nimrod collapses to the ground in a heap. His system has been infiltrated by nanites, provided to the Magus by Vandal Savage and programmed to hack into Nimrod's central processor and delete his programming, reducing him to nothing but a sophisticated pile of scrap metal. With the combined technical expertise of Brainiac, Doom 2099, Vandal Savage One Million and the Ghost, designing a program sure to take even Nimrod's advanced systems down was child's play. The gaping wounds Magus inflicted on his foe only helped to speed the complete invasion of his systems by the nanites.

Kyle has no time to concern himself with his fallen teammate. He knows he has no way to block the Soul Gem's spirit-based attacks, so his only hope is to keep moving too fast for them to hit him. Of course, this is easier said than done. Magus immediately unleashes a beam of spiritual energy, and Kyle only manages to avoid it by phasing and diving directly into the ground.

He comes up behind Magus and snares his foe in glowing green chains, willing them to squeeze Magus into submission. But Magus phases free of the bonds and teleports right next to Kyle, battering him with
punches that have dropped Thanos. Kyle barely manages to dodge another potential kill shot from the Soul Gem.

Even in the heat of battle, Kyle can't help but wonder how their plan could possibly have gone so wrong. This situation, Kyle facing the soul stealer one-on-one, was exactly what they didn't want. Nimrod, the soulless robot, was supposed to beat Magus. Kyle much prefers to keep his own soul right where it is.

On the plus side, he thinks ruefully, the situation is unlikely to get any worse.

Proctor: And once the Magus falls, that's it for the Deadly Dozen.

A deafening BOOM announces the return of Doomsday-Brainiac, courtesy of Vandal Savage's boomtube technology. Of course this team of super-geniuses had realized that removal from the battlefield was the most likely tactic for their opponents to take against Doomsday. They made sure to equip him with a nanite radio-transmitter that would make it possible to locate him immediately.

Before Kyle's brain can even register the sound of the boomtube, Doomsday is on him, his massive fists battering Kyle again and again.

Proctor: It's all a matter of sticking to the plan.

Kyle lapses into unconsciousness. The Soul Gem glows brightly, as the Magus makes certain it's a sleep from which Kyle will never wake.

Proctor: Assuming you guys don't find a way to f*** it up.

Deadly Dozen win

 

[XFanTim]

A few additional comments:

I really did try my best to give Wieg's team a decent strategy, although I also tried to reflect my team's significant edge in brain power by having them anticipate some of their opponents' strategies and plan accordingly. My team includes several of the biggest geniuses (both strategic and scientific) in all of comics, and I think the battle should reflect that.

Incidentally, some might argue my team has too many evil geniuses for them to all function together, but I don't buy it. Most of these are guys who've shown they're more than willing to work with anyone if it serves their own interests. Doom collaborated quite effectively with Kang during Infinity War (although of course they were both ready to stab each other in the back when that became more advantageous than working together.) When he first arrived in the 2099 timeline, Doom also frequently had to rely on others. Vandal Savage (1 Million) worked with Solaris, to give one example. As Warlock, Magus frequently collaborated with Thanos, even though they were in many ways arch-enemies. (This continued even after they had killed each other and been subsequently resurrected.) Ghost is the only real loner of the group, and as the weakest member of my team he wouldn't have much choice but to play nicely with the others. If anything, I'd say my team is more cohesive than weig's because I have five ruthless villains while wieg has a mix of ruthless villains and noble heroes.

For dramatic purposes, I tried to make the battle fairly competitive. But don't take that to mean I think it would be especially close. No offense meant to Wieg, but I think my team is substantially more powerful.
-Doomsday-Brainiac has already proven in the comics that he can trounce Kyle (while simultaneously beating several other uber-level JLAers).
-As for Nimrod, I really don't think my team would have too much trouble hacking into his computer system and shutting him down. I've got Ghost, who specializes in hacking into computer systems. I've got Doom 2099, who has technopathic abilities and has tech that's quite a few decades more advanced than Nimrod. (Remember, Nimrod was from the "Days of Future Past" timeline, which has to be only a few decades after the present since those X-Men who hadn't been killed by Sentinels were all still alive and active. Whereas, Doom 2099 is from a full century into the future.) Then I've got Vandal Savage, who has tech that's from over 800 centuries into the future, and who's hacked into 853rd century tech before (like when he used a bio-mech virus to hack into Resurrection Man's resurrector). Plus I've got Brainiac, a super-genius with advanced alien tech.
-My advantage over the ubers should be enough to give me the fight, but we can keep going down the line. In my opinion, invisibility (which more than one of my characters has) does a lot to neutralize Flash's speed advantage. Being able to attack someone before they can react doesn't help you if you don't have any idea where to strike.
-Proctor and Ambrose Chase are some pretty badass regs, I admit, but not so much so as to balance out my advantage at the uber end of things. And my regs are also quite formidable.

In addition, my team has a substantial knowledge advantage.
- I don't know whether or not Wieg figured having one of my former characters in Ambrose would give him a wealth of useful information, but as I tried to illustrate in my prep-time Ambrose doesn't really know these guys well because a bunch of them were added after he left the team, and the others weren't used with him very often.
- My team knows every member of his team except perhaps Nimrod, either from previous battles in this tournament (Proctor, Green Lantern, Ambrose Chase) or from the comics (Green Lantern, Flash). As for Nimrod, there's a chance Doom 2099 knows him from historical records (if something like "Days of Future Past" existed in the 2099 timeline), but even failing that he knows from the description that he's a "Sentinel from the future". Doom would at least know that the Sentinels are mutant-hunting robots.
- Wieg's team wouldn't know Doom 2099 at all (although they might guess he's related to Dr. Doom)
- They wouldn't know the Magus at all (they do know Adam Warlock, but if anything that would cause them to underestimate the Magus, who is substantially more powerful)
- They would know Vandal Savage and Kyle would know about the DC 1 Million timeline, but he wouldn't have any great familiarity with Vandal's technological capabilities (beyond knowing that they're very advanced).

 

[wiegeabo]

Prep-Time

I'm going to keep this simple because of a combination of laziness and hating every idea I previously came up with.


During the prep-time, Kyle recognizes Themyscira for what it is: the home of the Amazons. And while he may not be an expert on their society, he knows enough about them to give his team an edge.

Jay is sent to explore the island for any useful weapons or technology while the others restrain Nimrod while Kyle once again convinces it to work as a team. When Jay returns, all he finds are ancient weapons like swords and shields. Although he does find one piece of interesting technology: the Purple Healing Ray. While Kyle and Jay think the ray may be useful if the fight goes badly, Ambrose comes up with another idea. And he privately brings it up to Nimrod as the others further discuss strategy.

 

[wiegeabo]

Battle-time

Kyle's whips up 'telepathic earplugs' to protect everyone from telepathic attacks. Nimrod has no such worries. But he does need to worry about Doom and Savage whose technology is more advanced than his own. And if they could take over or disable Nimrod, the battle will likely be lost. Nimrod also has the ability to take over technology, but against tech so advanced, it's not a risk worth taking. So, while Kyle and Magus take their fight into the sky, Nimrod becomes bait. And when Doom and Ghost are in range, he turns himself into a giant EMP and detonates. This should take out Ghost's tech and, at the very least, damage Doom's.

Of course it wouldn't make sense for Nimrod to destroy himself with Brainiac still out there. Which is why Ambrose carries a piece of Nimrod with him, protecting it within a field that bends all EM energy around it. All Chase has to do is put this piece of tech on Nimrod's body and let it start repairing the damage.


Still, those repairs will take time, and the fight continues. Ambrose takes the opportunity to empty a couple of clips into Ghost and crush his organs in a high-gravity field. Kyle and Jay would disapprove, but they're quite busy with Magus and Savage. Jay slams into Savage at high speed and removes him for the others. In no time they're on the other side of the island, but Jay pays the price and crashes to the ground in pain, his hands and arms shredded by the blades of Vandal's suit. Anticipating this type of attack, Vandal has laced his blades with nanites designed to keep Garrick from healing properly. But that doesn't stop Jay, who uses everything around him, even the dirt itself, as supersonic weapons. Yet, even as his body is assaulted by microbullets, Vandal regenerates. Vandal pulls out a particularly nasty looking gun. "I prefer a good blade, but sometimes one is forced to compromise." Jay's nerves are set ablaze and Vandal smiles with delight.


Back in the main battle, it's Ambrose and Proctor against Doom and Brainiac. Not the best of situations. Because of the damage to Doom's armor, Proctor is able to get the jump on the situation, literally. Knowing they have no time to waste, Proctor teleports next to Doom. Grabbing him, he teleports away. They appear in the skies around Themyscira. Proctor let's Doom go and fall towards oblivion as he teleports back into the fight.

And he gets back just as Brainiac pushes his way through a field of slow time. Leaping into action, Proctor plunges the Blade into Brainiac's back, but it doesn't stop the monster who just shrugs him off. The fight looks hopeless until a fully repaired Nimrod rejoins the group. Nimrod's first attack is to disrupt Brainiac's telepathic control. Being able to disrupt telepathy should be well within Nimrod's capabilities. And, while that attack plays out, Nimrod kicks in the other half of Ambrose's plan. Using the Purple Healing Ray technology as a template, Nimrod incorporated a new weapon into his arsenal: a purple anti-healing way that disrupts and destroys flesh. So now Brainiac finds himself assaulted on mental and physical fronts. Eventually his control will break and Doomsday will be freed, but by this time, his body will have taken massive damage from this new form of attack. Enough damage that Ambrose can keep Doomsday trapped while Nimrod goes to help Kyle.


As the fight proceeded below, Kyle and Magus have utterly pounded each other. Kyle's thrown up a variety of attacks ranging from massive robots out of 1950's B-movies to straight up energy blasts. Yet with his sheer power, Magus has been able to fight through those constructs and give Rayner a beating. But the battle turns when Nimrod finally shows up, and soon it starts going badly for Magus. So, he has no choice but to use the Sould Gem on Rayner (it would obviously be ineffective against Nimrod). This does trap Rayner's soul and take him out of the fight. Or it would, if it wasn't for Rayner's sheer willpower. Kyle is able to fight against Magus from the inside. Combined with Nimrod's ability to constantly adapt to the situation and regenerate, even someone as powerful as the Magus will fall. (And if he doesn't use the Soul Gem, the outcome is the same.)


All that remains is Doomsday and Savage. Ambrose has had success keeping Doomsday trapped in a bubble of slow time and zero friction. With no friction, Doomsday can't move, can't do anything. And slow time keeps him from healing quickly. But this is Doomsday we're talking about, and he starts adapting to the environment he's trapped in. When Vandal Boom Tube's back into the fight, Proctor is forced to protect Ambrose. Now, with the level of skill these two display, this is one hell of a fight. But the arrival of Nimrod turns it around. Nimrod can kill two birds with one stone by activating Savage's Boom Tube and teleporting Vandal and Doomsday through it. Or maybe they release Doomsday, letting him tear through Savage while they move to a safe distance. Then Nimrod can just teleport himself and Doomsday away like Proctor did with Doom. Or Nimrod could just attack Savage directly, then turn the anti-healing ray back on Doomsday long enough for the group to finish the job. There are plenty of choices at this point in the fight.


It's a hard battle, and both sides are going to take their share of defeats. But Chaos & Order have won against tougher odds, and they won't go down this time either.

 

[wiegeabo]

Ok, finally have my battle up. It's rushed, but twice I had written half a battle and then thrown it out. I just couldn't find idea I liked. And once I finally did, I couldn't get the fight typed fast enough.


Let me preemptively defend a couple of my arguments. First, the purple anti-healing ray has been used before, although it was called the Purple Death Ray during Infinite Crisis. Kyle and Jay probably wouldn't condone such a thing being used, but Ambrose would. And it's not much of a leap to think that reversing a healing ray would destroy flesh. (If we've ever learned anything from Star Trek, it's that reversing the polarity always works. )


Second, telepathic earplugs are just a name given to telepathic blocking constructs used in the comics that fit in the ears and happen to look sort of like earplugs. And Lanterns have whipped up communicators for non-Lanterns before. If anything, having to split his concentration to do that gives Magus a slight advantage over Kyle anyway. But it's a sacrifice he needs to make in order to protect the rest of his team.


Third, Kyle attacking from inside the Soul Gem. Remember, Adam Warlock has never used the Soul Gem on Thanos because he's afraid that Thanos would be able to take over Adam from the inside. In the same vain, I assume someone with Kyle's willpower (willpower to contain a supernova while still a new Lantern, and control the powers of Ion and the Starheart together) would be able to at least influence or distract Magus from the inside. And with a being as deadly as Nimrod, it's a distraction Magus couldn't afford.

 

[XFanTim]

I didn't get a chance to get online yesterday, so I haven't had time to read Wieg's stuff yet. I'll try to read it and get some comments posted by the end of the day. So nobody vote until then . . . unless you've already decided to vote for me, in which case by all means go right ahead.

Actually, has voting even been opened yet? It was supposed to be opened three days ago . . .

 

[wiegeabo]

I didn't get a chance to get online yesterday, so I haven't had time to read Wieg's stuff yet. I'll try to read it and get some comments posted by the end of the day. So nobody vote until then . . . unless you've already decided to vote for me, in which case by all means go right ahead.

Actually, has voting even been opened yet? It was supposed to be opened three days ago . . .

Shut your mouth!

 

[XFanTim]

Comments on Wieg's writeup

OK, I just read what Wieg wrote. I have a few main points of disagreement, listed below.

- Nimrod's EMP
Nimrod isn't allowed to use an EMP against Doom and Ghost, because that constitutes an uber pre-emptively attacking a medium and a reg. He'd only be allowed to do that after they attack him, and Doom and Vandal's more advanced tech could probably significantly disrupt his systems before he could mount a counter-attack. More importantly, Doom and Ghost don't have to attack him at all -- my team could just do like they did in my writeup and provide Magus with a bunch of nanites designed to shut Nimrod down. Providing your teammate with a weapon to attack an uber isn't the same as attacking the uber yourself, so doing that doesn't expose my lower level characters to a counterattack from Nimrod.

If Nimrod isn't allowed to attack Ghost, then Ghost's invisibility would still be working properly, preventing Ambrose Chase from finding him and taking him down.

If Nimrod isn't allowed to attack Doom, then Doom's armor would still be working properly, meaning Proctor dropping him from the sky does nothing, since Doom can fly. Also, his cybernetically-enhanced reflexes probably let him counter-attack against Proctor before Proctor can teleport away.

Wieg also raises the possibility of Nimrod either directly attacking Vandal Savage or taking over his boom tube tech and porting him away. Again, he can't do this until after he defeats Doomsday, unless Vandal attacks him first. And there's no real reason for Vandal to attack Nimrod when he can just provide nanites to his uber teammates and let them use these against him. (I also somewhat question whether Nimrod could hope to control Vandal's tech, given that Vandal's tech is far more advanced than Nimrod himself.)

- Nimrod countering telepathy
As I understand it, Nimrod's computer-brain automatically devises defenses and counterattacks to whatever threat he faces. But since he's a robot, telepathy is no threat to him. So I don't see any reason Nimrod's program would act to counter it. So far as I know, he's never spontaneously developed a means to protect someone else from an attack. Nor do I know of him blocking someone's powers from working at all, as opposed to merely defending himself from them.

And his program is fairly inflexible -- for instance, he couldn't figure out how to deal with Rogue when she'd absorbed the powers of Colossus and Nightcrawler, since he was confused to see this combination of powersets in one person. And yet, he's supposed to adapt to a power like telepathy that he can't even feel at all? And adapt to it in such a way as to block it from affecting his teammates?

The Purple Ray
First, I think if anyone is going to control the battlefield tech, it would be my team. The combination of Doom 2099, Ghost, Vandal Savage (1 million), and Brainiac easily trumps Nimrod in the tech-controlling department. The same nanites I used to shut down Nimrod could get inside the purple ray and shut it down. Which is why in my writeup I had Wieg's team do the sensible thing and just trash the battlefield tech with an EMP before things got started.

Even if they could control the Purple Ray, that still doesn't guarantee they'd manage to hit Doomsday with it. Doomsday is far faster than anyone on Wieg's team (except Jay Garrick). Wieg and I seem to agree that Ambrose would struggle to halt a full-strength Doomsday (which makes sense, since we upgraded Turtle to uber for being able to slow the Flash to a crawl, you'd think Ambrose would have to be at least a medium to freeze Doomsday.) This is why Wieg had Nimrod wound Doomsday with the Purple Ray before Ambrose managed to freeze him in place. But I'd think Doomsday would be fast enough to smash the ray to pieces (and probably Nimrod with it) before Nimrod could get a shot off, and before Ambrose could snare him in a slow time field. Doomsday was fast enough to knock Martian Manhunter out before he could phase. In fact, with the element of surprise he was even fast enough to knock out J'onn, Wonder Woman, Kyle, Flash, etc. before they could defend themselves.

Even if the Purple Ray hits Doomsday, I'm not so sure it could "finish the job" as Wieg suggests when attacks like Darkseid's Omega Effect didn't. Other than his first fight with Superman (which was a weaker Doomsday), the main ways to beat Doomsday have almost always been some sort of teleportation. Which Proctor at least is capable of (if Ambrose gets a chance to slow Doomsday enough that Proctor can get near him), but for that ending to work Proctor has to survive his fights against my lower levels, and again I think a non-EMPed Doom would give him serious problems.

- Doomsday kicking Brainiac out of his mind
Even if they are successful in hitting Doomsday with the purple ray and injuring him significantly, I'm not convinced that this would force Brainiac out of his head. It seems like wounding Doomsday's physical body only weakens Doomsday, which would make it that much easier for Brainiac to control him. Contrast this with the way Superman forced Brainiac out in the comics: he slapped a psi-blocking device on him, thereby strengthening Doomsday's resistance to Brainiac's telepathy.

This is a significant point because Wieg suggests a mindless Doomsday could be used to attack his own teammates.

Kyle resisting Magus from within the Soul Gem.
First, I agree that Magus probably wouldn't even need to steal Kyle's soul to beat him unless he's double-teamed by Kyle and Nimrod. Kyle's power basically amounts to various forms of high-level energy projection and manipulation, and Magus has proven he had more than enough power to handle another high-level energy projector in Thanos. (It was pre-resurrection Thanos, but he still was a better-than-Thor level uber who defeated and imprisoned the Avengers and Captain Marvel, and killed Adam Warlock.) So that raises the question: Would Magus have to face a double-team from Kyle and Nimrod? I argue no, because my team could easily provide Magus with tech that would immediately shut Nimrod down, like the nanites I used in my writeup. Even if Wieg uses his ploy of using Nimrod's regeneration to make a back-up Nimrod (which smacks of having more than two ubers, but I won't argue the point) there's no reason Magus couldn't use the nanites more than once.

But getting back to my main point, even if Magus is forced to rely on stealing Kyle's soul (which is an attack he can't block), or if he simply chooses to do so for the sake of convenience, I'm pretty skeptical of Kyle being able to disrupt Magus from within the Gem. For the wearer of the Gem to control it takes substantial willpower, otherwise the Gem's own personality tends to overwhelm the user. (This has often been cited as evidence of Warlock's ultra-high willpower -- even the High Evolutionary avoided using the Gem for fear he couldn't control it.) But controlling the Gem from inside is another matter. If it was just a matter of having a lot of willpower, you'd think that the combined willpower of the, what, hundreds of people trapped in Soul World would be enough to force Warlock to return them to their bodies. In fact I don't know of anyone who's ever controlled the Gem from inside, except perhaps Warlock himself. I'm referring to Infinity Crusade, where Warlock loaned the Gem to Thanos and allowed himself to be absorbed into Soul World as part of their plan against the Goddess. After it was done, the Soul Gem automatically beamed Warlock's soul back into his comatose body, and then the Gem hopped off of Thanos's brow and back onto Warlock's. But this may have been something like a pre-programmed command rather than Warlock controlling the Gem from inside, and anyway it probably has more to do with Warlock's significant edge in experience when it comes to controlling the Gems, since there's little evidence that Warlock's willpower exceeds Thanos's. (Experience also matters when it comes to controlling the Gems, as evidenced by Warlock's line "The Gems remember my touch well" when he fought to wrest the Infinity Gauntlet from Magus during Infinity War. In terms of experience, Magus would have an edge of thousands of years over Kyle Rayner.)

Wieg mentions that Warlock never stole Thanos's soul for fear that Thanos would control him from the inside, but I don't think that's quite right. Warlock said he didn't use the Gem to steal Thanos's soul because he worried "the titan's dark soul would overwhelm my own." I think it's more about Thanos's personality being so forceful that absorbing him would alter Warlock's own personality traits. Evidence in favor of this interpretation is what happened when Warlock was forced to absorb the soul of Warrior, a Thanos clone. Warlock was still in control of the gem and his body, but he became more nihilistic and mentally unstable, reflecting Warrior's personality traits. (Perhaps this also explains why Warlock was later seen in an intergalactic insane asylum.)

So while Kyle's willpower is great, I don't think willpower alone would let him fight Magus from within the Gem, and I don't think he has the force of personality to substantially alter Magus. Even if Magus did pick up Kyle's personality traits, that might make him more noble and less willing to kill, but it wouldn't stop him from destroying a robot like Nimrod.

In summary:
- The way Wieg beat my lower-level characters relies heavily on Nimrod hitting them with a pre-emptive EMP, and that's illegal since he's an uber and they're not.
- The way Wieg beat my ubers relies heavily on Nimrod, who could be readily shut down by my team's tech. And there's no reason my team couldn't give that tech (particularly Vandal's nanites) to my ubers to avoid the regs having to attack him themselves.

In case anyone thinks I made my ubers too uber
First, all I'm really obligated to do is portray them as they were portrayed in the comics, which I think I've done (even citing specific examples from the comics whenever possible). If Doomsday-Brainiac and the Magus were too uber in the comics, than it's Wieg's fault for allowing them as ubers, not my fault for portraying them accurately. But I don't really think they are. They're on the level of some of the top ubers in this thing, but I don't see them as more powerful than post-resurrection Thanos or top-level mages like Tony Stark: Sorcerer Supreme.

My ubers look dominant in this battle because Wieg's team doesn't match up well against them. The only one on his team fast enough to match-up against Doomsday is Jay Garrick (and possibly Kyle depending on how much he can amp his speed), and it just so happens that Doomsday-Brainiac has already beaten Kyle Rayner and Wally West in the comics. Likewise, the only one on his team with defenses against the Soul Gem is Nimrod (although Jay would probably be fast enough to keep Magus from hitting him), and Nimrod happens to be vulnerable to the numerous futuristic tech-geniuses on my team.

The only real upgrades I gave my ubers was Vandal loaning some tech-controlling nanites to Magus, which I don't think is a significant upgrade since (1) he's just borrowing a reg-level weapon, and (2) Magus can only use them against opposing ubers who happen to be tech based. (Note that Vandal's tech-controlling devices -- e.g., the "bio-mech virus" -- are distinct from the nanites he used to attack organic tissue -- e.g., his "nano-disassemblers". I'm only giving Magus tech-controlling devices.) Again, it's not my fault Wieg went with Nimrod. Off the top of my head he has at least two other ubers who could resist the Soul Gem and who aren't tech based, namely Shanzar and Adam Warlock. (Dr. Strange's powers have been shown to affect the Soul Gem, so I'd buy that another uber mage could do the same -- and I've been consistent in saying this when Magus's ranking was discussed. As for Warlock, he of course has the Soul Gem himself.) Both of them are also resistant to telepathy (at least, I assume uber mages have telepathic defense). Magus has beaten Adam before, but Wieg could have employed a strategy of having Shanzar keep Magus occupied while Adam (made invisible by Shanzar) sneaks up on Doomsday and steals his Soul. Then the two of them could double-team Magus. Of course, against a team like that I probably wouldn't have used Doomsday at all, instead going with someone like Loki and giving us a very different fight.

But my point is, the ubers I used aren't so powerful that Wieg's team wouldn't have answers for them -- I just don't personally think that this is the lineup to beat them.

 

[wiegeabo]

I'll try to read and respond during lunch.

 

[DTL Commish]

Voting may now begin.

 

[Aristotle]

XFanTim.

 

[wiegeabo]

ok. Got a response to Tim's rebuttle, but I'm not about to type the whole thing out on my iPod. I will blame some of the problems Tim found on me typing it out too fast and leaving out some details.

Just a quick point in defense. If Doom, Savage, orghost try to take over Nimrod directly, or withnanites, then they are attacking him. And that means he's allowed to attack them in defense with an EMP or more directly.

 

[wiegeabo]

Got on a computer quicker than I thought.


Nimrod's EMP
Like I said above, if Ghost, Savage, or Doom try to use nanites on Nimrod, then they are attacking him. This means Nimrod's free to respond. The EMP should take care of the nanites and Tim's characters, and the piece of Nimrod the my team has will rebuild him. As for Ghost's invisibility, Nimrod's technology is decades more advanced than Ghost's. And Nimrod has likely fought and adapted to mutants that use a variety of detection avoiding mutants. I think it's a good bet he'd be able to detect Ghost in some way. Even if it's just the disruption of air he causes while movine.

Nimrod countering telepathy
If Nimrod doesn't know what he's facing in battle, and his sensors can't warn him, than he does usually have to be attacked before he can adapt. But in this case, the team can tell Nimrod exactly what they will be facing, and he can adapt his systems accordingly. Nimrod's probably already got protocols do deal with telepaths (like disrupting their minds so they can't communicate and work with others).

Time even allows for this in his prep-time when Proctor warns Nimrod about an EMP and he adapts an anti-Magneto protocol.


The Purple Ray
Tim says in his rebuttle that Jay is faster than anyone on his team, including Brainiac. So is it really doubtful that Jay could get hold of the Purple Ray before the other side does? And Nimrod doesn't take the Purple Ray, or in this case the anti-purple ray, into battle. He incorporates the tech, or at least how it works, into his system. Therefore Nimrod has anti-purple ray blasters that could shoot out of his hands/eyes/whatever he shoots stuff out of. This could also mean that the others could use the original purple ray (reversed to anti-purple) in battle as well. (Ambrose could use this while slowing Doomsday down.)


Doomsday kicking Brainiac out of his mind
Not only is Brainiac being attacked, weakening his control, but Doomsday is being attacked physically, weakening his ability to take his body back over. So, basically, Brainiac and Doomsday will be in a constant struggle for control, while still trying to survive the attacks.


Kyle resisting Magus from within the Soul Gem.
I didn't mean that Kyle could take over Magus from within the gem. I meant that Kyle's willpower is likely so great that he could distract Magus from within. I don't know if that quote supports anything one way or the other. it could be interpreted as Adam taking on Thanos' traits, or as Thanos taking over. I've always thought it was the latter.

And if Kyle isn't absorbed, then I think he and Nimrod (who can adapt to anything magus attacks/defends with) can take Magus down.

 

[XFanTim]

Nimrod's EMP

Just a quick point in defense. If Doom, Savage, or Ghost try to take over Nimrod directly, or with nanites, then they are attacking him. And that means he's allowed to attack them in defense with an EMP or more directly.

[...]

Like I said above, if Ghost, Savage, or Doom try to use nanites on Nimrod, then they are attacking him. This means Nimrod's free to respond. The EMP should take care of the nanites and Tim's characters, and the piece of Nimrod the my team has will rebuild him.

Providing a weapon to your teammate is not an attack. Nanites are a weapon. If I have Vandal give that weapon to Magus and have Magus use it in his fight against Nimrod, then Magus is the one doing the attacking. That's the sensible thing for my team to do, rather than needlessly put my lower level characters at risk of a counter attack by having them attack directly.

Even if having Magus use Nanites constituted an attack by Vandal, Nimrod wouldn't be allowed to do an EMP until after the nanites attacked him. Likewise, even if they were dumb enough to approach him directly as they did in your writeup, he still couldn't attack them just because they approached him (which is how you wrote it). He has to wait until they've actually attacked him, and at that point there's no guarantee he could get off a counter attack before their far more advanced technology shuts him down.

Also, he's only allowed to attack the regs or meds who attack him. So why would my team be dumb enough to send both Ghost and Doom against him? That's just needlessly exposing multiple characters to a counter attack.

Just for the sake of argument, let's suppose the following:
- Suppose Magus using Vandal's nanites against Nimrod counts as Vandal attacking him (although I don't think it should)
- Suppose Nimrod is fast enough to counter attack with an EMP before 853rd century technology shuts him down (although I'm not sure he would be)

Even so, in that scenario Nimrod is only allowed to attack Vandal, not Doom or Ghost. And Vandal doesn't have to be anywhere near him, since he gave the nanites to Magus. Meaning the only way Nimrod is going to hit Vandal is if he does an island-wide EMP, and that's impossible without also hitting Ghost or Doom, which would make the attack illegal.

Thus, so long as Vandal gives the nanites to Magus and keeps his distance from the fight, there's no legal way for Nimrod to counter attack against him. So clearly, that's the strategy my team of geniuses would employ. (If I was smart enough to think of it in my writeup, surely Doom, Vandal, and Brainiac would be smart enough to think of it.)

The best Nimrod could hope to do in that scenario would be to do a local EMP that takes out the nanites while taking himself out in the process. Even if his teammates have a backup Nimrod like the one you use in your writeup, there's no reason for Vandal to use up all his nanites in his initial attack, so my team could just do the same thing again.

(If you start talking about just making a new backup Nimrod over and over until I run out of nanites, then I would question whether you're violating the two uber limit or pushing him to tuber by giving him unlimited duplication. Plus I have my doubts about whether Nimrod would cooperate with a strategy of "Here, we'll just cut off a bunch of pieces of you to save for later.")

 

[XFanTim]

Ghost's Invisibility

As for Ghost's invisibility, Nimrod's technology is decades more advanced than Ghost's. And Nimrod has likely fought and adapted to mutants that use a variety of detection avoiding mutants. I think it's a good bet he'd be able to detect Ghost in some way. Even if it's just the disruption of air he causes while moving.

I brought up Ghost's invisibility regarding his fight with Ambrose Chase, not with Nimrod. You had Ambrose empty a clip into Ghost and crush him with gravity -- I'm saying he could only do those things if he could find Ghost, and so long as Ghost doesn't foolishly attack Nimrod and get EMPed there's no reason Ambrose could find him.

Even if Nimrod can detect Ghost he'd probably be too busy fighting Magus to be constantly relaying Ghost's coordinates to Ambrose. Although I'm not sure Nimrod could detect Ghost. Nimrod is mostly used to detecting mutants, and mutants are stuck with the powers they've got whereas Ghost has repeatedly upgraded his stealth tech to avoid Tony Stark's tech based detection -- so it's safe to say his stealth is better than any mutant. Plus Doom's invisibility tech is decades more advanced than Nimrod, and he can probably make a few useful improvements to Ghost's suit during prep-time.

Nimrod countering telepathy

If Nimrod doesn't know what he's facing in battle, and his sensors can't warn him, than he does usually have to be attacked before he can adapt. But in this case, the team can tell Nimrod exactly what they will be facing, and he can adapt his systems accordingly. Nimrod's probably already got protocols do deal with telepaths (like disrupting their minds so they can't communicate and work with others).

Tim even allows for this in his prep-time when Proctor warns Nimrod about an EMP and he adapts an anti-Magneto protocol.

In prep-time I assume he already has a defense against magnetic powers. If you're right that he already has a means to disrupt telepathy, then I don't have a problem with him using it. What I dispute is that he could create a new telepathy disrupting power just from being told he'll be up against a telepath.

So the relevant question is: Would Nimrod have a power to disrupt telepathy? I don't really see why he would, since telepathy is no threat to him anyway. And outside of the DTL he's never been in a situation where he's had non-robot teammates to protect from telepathy either. You suggest he'd have a way of blocking telepathy just to prevent telepaths communicating with others. It seems to me if he encountered a telepathic mutant he'd probably just kill them rather than worry about disrupting their communications. Anyway, he probably wouldn't mind if they called for help, since that would just bring more mutants for him to kill or capture.

Anyway, it's not a huge point since I didn't use telepathy much in my writeup anyway, but I don't think you should just assume Nimrod could disrupt one of my uber's main powers when he's never disrupted that power in the comics.

The Purple Ray

Tim says in his rebuttle that Jay is faster than anyone on his team, including Brainiac. So is it really doubtful that Jay could get hold of the Purple Ray before the other side does? And Nimrod doesn't take the Purple Ray, or in this case the anti-purple ray, into battle. He incorporates the tech, or at least how it works, into his system. Therefore Nimrod has anti-purple ray blasters that could shoot out of his hands/eyes/whatever he shoots stuff out of. This could also mean that the others could use the original purple ray (reversed to anti-purple) in battle as well. (Ambrose could use this while slowing Doomsday down.)

Even if you get the Purple Ray, is there any reason to think they could hit Doomsday with it before he smashes it? None of your team has the reflexes to keep up with Doomsday except for Flash, and we've seen how poorly Flashes do against Doomsday. In particular, I'm not sure Ambrose could slow Doomsday down significantly before Doomsday could take him out. He hit Martian Manhunter faster than he could even phase, and J'onn's reflexes are a million times better than Ambrose's.

Even if Doomsday is hit with the ray, I'm not sure it could damage him significantly in the tiny fraction of a second it would take him to charge straight towards it and smash the thing. Is the Purple Ray really more damaging than a point-blank shot from Darkseid's Omega Effect? Because Doomsday has taken that and kept on fighting.

Doomsday kicking Brainiac out of his mind

Not only is Brainiac being attacked, weakening his control, but Doomsday is being attacked physically, weakening his ability to take his body back over. So, basically, Brainiac and Doomsday will be in a constant struggle for control, while still trying to survive the attacks.

When you say "Brainiac is being attacked", you're referring I assume to Nimrod disrupting his telepathy. If I was skeptical of Nimrod's ability to block telepathy from being used against his teammates, I'm even more skeptical of Nimrod being able to disrupt Brainiac's telepathic possession. When has Nimrod ever shown the ability to force someone out of a telepathically possessed body? Never, of course. You're assuming he could just based on the fact that there are mutants who are telepaths, when in fact he could easily beat those mutants without manifesting such a power.

Plus, anti-telepathy tech is rare in the Marvel Universe. There's good evidence that anti-telepathy tech is rare or non-existent even in the Shi'ar Galaxy, given that one of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard (Oracle) is a telepath (this would be a useless power if all the Guard's enemies had telepathy blockers). Plus, even when Xavier was romantically involved with the leader of the Shi'ar, and brought back tons of advanced tech like Danger Room upgrades, he never got a telepathy blocker to use against the X-Men's numerous telepathic foes. If the Shi'ar, who are far more advanced than Nimrod, don't have telepathy-blocking tech, it may be simply too advanced for Nimrod to create.

Even in the DCU, where telepathy-blocking tech is apparently somewhat more common, Superman still had to plant the telepathy blocker right on Doomsday before it was able to force Brainiac out. If Nimrod gets anywhere near that close to Doomsday, the stronger and faster Doomsday will tear him apart.

Kyle resisting Magus from within the Soul Gem.

I didn't mean that Kyle could take over Magus from within the gem. I meant that Kyle's willpower is likely so great that he could distract Magus from within. I don't know if that quote supports anything one way or the other. it could be interpreted as Adam taking on Thanos' traits, or as Thanos taking over. I've always thought it was the latter.

When has anyone, strong-willed or not, ever "distracted" Magus/Warlock from within the Soul Gem? So far as I know, it's never happened. Adam's quote about Thanos specifically refers to the Thanos's "dark soul", not his willpower. And there's no need to speculate about what he meant -- when Adam did absorb Warrior (a Thanos clone), his personality became crazier and more nihilistic in reflection of Warrior's traits. There was no indication he was "distracted" by Warrior actively resisting from within the Gem.

Nimrod adapting to the Magus

And if Kyle isn't absorbed, then I think he and Nimrod (who can adapt to anything magus attacks/defends with) can take Magus down.

Just because Nimrod can adapt to mutant powers, doesn't mean he can adapt to any attack Magus can possibly come up with. When has Nimrod ever faced a high-level cosmic character? The most notable non-mutant he's fought is Juggernaut, and despite the mystical origin of Juggernaut's powers he's basically just a really high-level brick.

Anyway, there's no reason to think Nimrod can adapt to tech that's hundreds of centuries more advanced than he is, which is what my team has. And there's really no reason to think he'd adapt a way to let Kyle block the Soul Gem. Even in your own writeup, Kyle got his soul stolen. After that, it's not two-on-one against Magus, it's Nimrod vs. Magus one-on-one. And that's not a fight I'd expect Nimrod to win. The addition of Magus's teammate's tech is just the icing on the cake.

 

[Dark Gog]

Tim. Very solid write-up as usual. I had a few minor problems with it, but overall he had the more plausible scenario to supplement what on paper seemed the more formidable team.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I am going to have to go with Tim because his ubers seem a bit too much for wieg's. I am not in total agreement however on how the battle would go.

 

[LadyVader]

XFanTim. Oh and the Nimrod (hopefully): KILL ALL MUTANTS? moment was delicious. You made a killer robot look cute!

 

[DTL Commish]

Voting is closed.
Final Results:

The Deadly Dozen 4
Chaos & Order 0