DTL Season 5-Week 7 (Set 1)

[Aristotle]

Ha ha if people want to vote how they want then thats fine...you're not losers.I just am not very confident this week purely on the efforts I have just re-read in my own write up.

It wasn't the loser part, it's that you conceded the battle. My vote will almost certainly be the only one cast for you now.

 

[DTL Commish]

Voting may now begin.

 

[LadyVader]

Battle

I will now elaborate some points made in the prep-time. First thing's first, Engineer and Kayla Ballantine will work very close together in this match because Engineer has the technology to allow a mindlink with Kayla and to guide her in using the Star Brand. Engineer is used to dealing with very powerful sources of energy/sentient artifacts, since she's usually driving the Carrier who is in itself amazingly powerful.

Engineer also took control of the computer system in the mansion, created a mind link between all her team mates with the use of radio-telepathy (excluding Deadpool) and inflitrated her nanites into the Danger Room which will be important later on.

Anyway, one of my main strategies in this match is the use of inhibitor collars. That is because 4 of AS's characters are mutants and as such, there is a very easy way to counteract their powers through technology and since I have an expert technician inventor on the team and a superb source of energy it would be foolish not to take advantage of this weakness.

Multiple Man vs Jaine Cutter

"Well hello there. A KISS groupie I gather?"
"Coming from an obvious ex-boy band member such as yourself, that's a compliment"
"Ouch. Ok, so maybe a few people back in the day said I remind them of Justin Timberlake, that doesn't mean anything. It's not like I can hit 3 octaves or anything."
"Not yet anyway. Come closer and I'll fix that for you."
"No thank you. Any chance we can settle this amicabally"
"Sure."
"really?"
Jaine lunges forward.
"No"
Now as AS himself has stated, there's little Madrox can do against Jaine since his dupes would easily fall pray to her claws. What she can do to stop him from creating dupes is put a collar on him.

For this she needs to know which one is the original. Engineer in prep time created some device that spread low level radiation throughout the house. After a quick scan she can see which one of the Madrox bodies has absorbed MORE radiation and therefore which one is the original.

She communicates this to Jaine telepathically. Now what would happen if Madrox's powers were neutralized? I'm sure that either a) his dupes disappear or b) his dupes lose the power to create other dupes.

There IS a connection between Madrox and his dupes and since his dupes are always absorbed into him and not the other way around it is only logical to assume that he is the source of their powers and once he is neutralized, they are all neutralized. So all that is left for Jaine to do once she gets close enough to the real Madrox to put the collar on is pick off the rest of the dupes.

Deadpool vs Forge
It is very possible that Forge built something to scramble Deadpool's image inducer, so that the merc would not sneak up on him. It is also possible That Forge put up a good fight against Deadpool up until he got in a few lucky shots.

That's when Deadpool would activate his teleporter and Forge would think that Wade is trying to escape when in fact his teleporter had been merged with the inhibitor collar technology into one device which when activated it instanteneously teleports onto Forge's neck, thereby cancelling his powers and making him an easy target.

Stryfe vs Kayla Ballantine /w Engineer coaching
What we have here is a basic psionic power vs cosmic power type struggle. The Star Brand gives it's source potentially infinite cosmic powers. With Engineer's help, Kayla coult tap into those amazing powers and last time cosmic powers went up against psionic powers (namely Silver Surfer vs Cable in Cable/Deadpool) cosmic powers won!

To be continued

 

[XFanTim]

Yeah, maybe I should get over the Zoom thing. But regarding phasing through things, I'm not really sure why any superfast person should be able to phase. Flash does it by "vibrating his molecules" or some such gibberish -- I'm not really sure why Zoom would be able to vibrate his molecules through things just because he's moving fast.

EDIT: I guess if you see it as him just shaking himself back and forth really fast then Zoom could do it . . . I always thought it was Flash using the Speedforce to pump extra kinetic energy into his molecules ("exciting their vibrational modes", in physics-speak).

 

[XFanTim]

Getting back to the battle at hand, I'm not going to argue too much since Nightwing didn't seem really into it, but I'd like to at least re-emphasize my point about the Danger Room, especially since Nightwing used it in his takedown of both Doomsday and Ghost:

Even if my team couldn't take control of the Danger Room (which with the combined resources of Magneto, Brainiac, and the Ghost I think they could) why wouldn't they just trash it before letting their opponents use it against them? Magneto knows all about the room from his experience leading the New Mutants (which is more than any of Nightwing's team can say), and he could easily take the whole thing down with an EMP during prep-time or at the very start of the battle. Why let such a valuable resource fall under their opponents' control?

Also, with the Ghost fight, it seems extremely foolish for him to allow Captain America to engage him in hand-to-hand combat when he can just stay invisible and hit Cap with timed explosives and such. Magneto has fought Cap and the Avengers multiple times, so he'd have warned my regs that Captain America is one of the foremost hand-to-hand fighters in the Marvel Universe.

and as for the tech thing....im not gonna have your team have a full advantage of the entire battle field....

But they'd have that advantage because Magneto knows the battlefield better than anyone on your team. (Juggernaut knows the X-Mansion but hasn't had full access to its tech like Magneto has -- not at this point in the character's history, anyway.) Plus my team specializes in controlling tech more than yours does.

 

[Nightwing]

well because my write up is about my team having the advantage....not yours....i wouldnt write about your team tacking full control leaving my team helpless....its all about being in my favour....

and as for the Ghost thing...i never had Ghost fight hand to hand i just had him use his phasing cleverly....although he dropped his guard when he thought Cap was out of it when he was laying on the floor.

again my regs battles were cheap....

 

[XFanTim]

I understand you aren't going to give my team a big advantage in your writeup -- you have to write it with your team winning, after all. But then it makes sense for me to argue that the team having that advantage is the more plausible scenario. So I'm not so much criticizing your writeup as saying mine -- with my team controlling the Danger Room and other tech -- is more likely. But like I said, it also makes sense for my team to disable whatever tech they can't control.

Regarding the Ghost thing, I'm just saying he shouldn't have made himself both tangible and visible at the same time, allowing Cap to attack him.

As he reaches a full 360 degrees he releases his shield at Ghost. It hurtles towards him only to pass through. As it does Ghost becomes tangible and quickly plants a device on the shield. Still on its trajectory it phases through all the walls and out of the building. Steve seeing this runs towards Ghost. Executing a perfectly timed flying kick he aims straight at his head only to miss. Again with precision timing Ghost grabs Steve’s foot and flips onto the floor.

He could have been invisible, in which case Cap would never know where to throw the shield. He certainly doesn't need to be visible to attack Cap with explosives and such.

Or, he could have stayed intangible and ignored the shield, rather than going tangible just to take out a weapon that couldn't hurt him anyway.

And even if he was needlessly visible and tangible at the same time, he could have gone back to intangible when he had the chance rather than "grabbing Cap's foot" and giving Cap the chance to hit him.

But you said you didn't like your reg battles either, so perhaps I shouldn't bother debating them.

 

[AnnoyingSilence]

Anyway, one of my main strategies in this match is the use of inhibitor collars. That is because 4 of AS's characters are mutants and as such, there is a very easy way to counteract their powers through technology and since I have an expert technician inventor on the team and a superb source of energy it would be foolish not to take advantage of this weakness.

I'll let this pass because your hooked into the x-men computers which would hold the information to build the collars

Multiple Man vs Jaine Cutter
Now as AS himself has stated, there's little Madrox can do against Jaine since his dupes would easily fall pray to her claws. What she can do to stop him from creating dupes is put a collar on him.

at, at, at... i never said easily and i said DeadPool was with her. alone, i have no doubt that multiple man would take her down.

For this she needs to know which one is the original. Engineer in prep time created some device that spread low level radiation throughout the house. After a quick scan she can see which one of the Madrox bodies has absorbed MORE radiation and therefore which one is the original.

That wouldn't work, seeing how each dupe is a precise dupe of the previous one

She communicates this to Jaine telepathically. Now what would happen if Madrox's powers were neutralized? I'm sure that either a) his dupes disappear or b) his dupes lose the power to create other dupes.

C) the dupes would retain thier natural abilities, but would not be able to be absorbed by madrox himself

There IS a connection between Madrox and his dupes and since his dupes are always absorbed into him and not the other way around it is only logical to assume that he is the source of their powers and once he is neutralized, they are all neutralized. So all that is left for Jaine to do once she gets close enough to the real Madrox to put the collar on is pick off the rest of the dupes.

seeing as how jaimie has NEVER been to the x-mansion and WOULDN"T know where to find the WEAPONS...

Deadpool vs Forge

deadpool grabs his guns and kills forge... the end

Stryfe vs Kayla Ballantine /w Engineer coaching
What we have here is a basic psionic power vs cosmic power type struggle.

a basic psi-power that has had a lifetime of war experience.

The Star Brand gives it's source potentially infinite cosmic powers.

although she NO WHERE near other cosmic beings do to inexperience.

With Engineer's help, Kayla coult tap into those amazing powers and last time cosmic powers went up against psionic powers (namely Silver Surfer vs Cable in Cable/Deadpool) cosmic powers won!

though that has nothing to do with the match

 

[LadyVader]

at, at, at... i never said easily and i said DeadPool was with her. alone, i have no doubt that multiple man would take her down.

how?

That wouldn't work, seeing how each dupe is a precise dupe of the previous one

that doesn't matter since the method is simply used to test which dupe has been in a particular environment longer, not with dupe is older

seeing as how jaimie has NEVER been to the x-mansion and WOULDN"T know where to find the WEAPONS...

Conventional weapons can't harm Jaine.

a basic psi-power that has had a lifetime of war experience.
although she NO WHERE near other cosmic beings do to inexperience.
Did you miss the whole part about Engineer coaching her? the Star Brand is heavily influenced by a person's psyche and Engineer has easy access to Kayla's psyche thanks to radio-telepathy.

though that has nothing to do with the match
it proves that cosmic power trumps psi-power.

Conclusion

Engineer vs Mimic

A normal inhibitor collar wouldn't work on this Mimic since he's to fast and to damn feral to put the thing on him. So, while one of her clones is keeping him busy in the danger room (Engineer has the ablity among other things to also create clones of herself), Angie will search the computer and the Web if necessary for specs of the Neutralizer gun that 616 Forge built at some point.

A neutralizer gun would be more handy in rendering Mimic helpless. when she finds the specs, she quickly morphs her hand into one such weapons and starts shooting indiscriminately.

Meanwhile... All this time Wonder Woman has tried to keep Thanos occupied. I'm not saying Wonder woman can beat Thanos but she CAN put up a good fight, and just in time for her team mates to arrive. Now, Wonder Woman at this point would be to hurt to fight but she can relenquish her paraphenelia. Using both the Golden Lasso and Kayla's force fields, they can keep Thanos in place long enough for Jaine to use her claws on his hide.

She should be able to hurt him, since her claws are magical and Drax simply punched through the Titan's chest in Annihilation 4 so Thanos is definetely not indestructible.

 

[Nightwing]

I understand you aren't going to give my team a big advantage in your writeup -- you have to write it with your team winning, after all. But then it makes sense for me to argue that the team having that advantage is the more plausible scenario. So I'm not so much criticizing your writeup as saying mine -- with my team controlling the Danger Room and other tech -- is more likely. But like I said, it also makes sense for my team to disable whatever tech they can't control.

Regarding the Ghost thing, I'm just saying he shouldn't have made himself both tangible and visible at the same time, allowing Cap to attack him.


He could have been invisible, in which case Cap would never know where to throw the shield. He certainly doesn't need to be visible to attack Cap with explosives and such.

Or, he could have stayed intangible and ignored the shield, rather than going tangible just to take out a weapon that couldn't hurt him anyway.

And even if he was needlessly visible and tangible at the same time, he could have gone back to intangible when he had the chance rather than "grabbing Cap's foot" and giving Cap the chance to hit him.

But you said you didn't like your reg battles either, so perhaps I shouldn't bother debating them.

I think you miss read how I wrote that battle. Ghost grabbed Cap on the back end of an attack, he flipped Cap onto his back and whilst he was laying down Ghost placed the device on Cap. As Ghost leant over him that was when Cap punched...I wrote it under the assupmtion that Ghost would have to be tangible to place a device on Cap.

 

[XFanTim]

I was referring more to the part before that where Cap sees him, tries to kick him, and Ghost dodges and knocks him onto the floor. Why do any of that when he can just let Cap's kick pass through him?

I get that you had him go tangible before that to plant a device on Cap's shield, but (1) he could have done that while invisible, in which case Cap wouldn't have known where to kick, and (2) he didn't need to do it at all. Why expose himself to an attack while attacking Cap's shield, instead of attacking Cap himself? He can't use his shield to block attacks from an invisible attacker, because he wouldn't know which way they're coming from.

I agree that Ghost would have to be tangible to place a device on Cap or his shield, but that's all the more reason for him not to take that tactic. He has lots of other options available. E.g., he could plant explosives under the floor and set them off by remote as Cap walked by. He knows how dangerous Cap is, so he should be trying to avoid getting close enough to get kicked or punched by him.

Even if he did want to plant a device on Cap, he could have just snuck up behind him while invisible and done it before Cap ever knew he was there. (Ghost's suit can also hide sound -- a mod he made after Iron Man detected him by his heartbeat.) Or, he could just shoot Cap in the back of the head before Cap knew he was there.

 

[Nightwing]

The kick that Cap performed passed THROUGH Ghost. Ghost caught him after his back foot had passed through.

But I can see your point....

 

[XFanTim]

For what it's worth, overall I thought your writeup was better than you give yourself credit for. Most of the strategies were pretty good. I just felt Ghost could have used his stealth and phasing a bit better against Cap, and Magneto could have been more active before he was the last one standing. (I know you had it all happen fast, but still, unless Magneto splits up from the other regs he'd be able to take a hand in the reg-vs-reg battles. If anything, he'd probably get involved in the combat first, with my invisible regs hiding out until they have an opening to take someone down.)

But I still think the deciding factor is probably who controls the tech on the battlefield. We both made use of the Danger Room, I also used the psi-shielded Z'Nox chamber and the Blackbird (although I had your team use the Blackbird against me some too) ... I just think that it would be my team dominating the tech because I have more tech experts and more familiarity with the X-Mansion tech thanks to Magneto. And at worst, Magneto could fry whatever tech they couldn't take over.

But I've kind of reached the point where I'm just repeating my same points with different phrasing (a bad habit I have when debating) so I'll try to cut myself off here and just get to posting my votes on the other match.

 

[XFanTim]

Some comments on AS and LV's match:

- As I said above in my discussion with Nightwing, I'm a little skeptical of someone with no past experience with Marvel mutants creating power inhibiting tech in only 24 hours, even with Xavier's library at their disposal. Could Xavier and Beast -- already experts on mutants -- whip up power inhibitors in 24 hours? But AS didn't question it, so I guess I won't argue.

- I'm not sure Forge would keep something as dangerous to mutants as the specs for an inhibitor gun in the X-Men's computer, as opposed to just his head. But if we accept LV's team has inhibitor collar tech, perhaps Engineer could convert it into a gun.

- Anyway, AS somewhat conceded LV would win the reg battles (although he didn't agree with how she did it in her writeup), so I'll assume those go to LV.

- With the meds, I'm not sure a duplicating Mimic isn't pushing him to uber, but on the other hand LV hasn't really questioned it. Engineer can clone too, apparently (I don't know her well), so I guess that kind of evens out. If we accept that she can make inhibitor guns, then maybe she'd take that battle.

- As for the ubers, I'm less convinced LV's team could win. Cable vs. Silver Surfer doesn't necessarily prove anything about Stryfe vs. Kayla -- not all cosmic powers are created equal. In particular, Surfer has exhibited a good bit of resistance to telepathy (for instance, resisting Moondragon with the Mind Gem in Infinity Crusade). Is Kayla telepathy-resistant? If not, that'd give Stryfe a big advantage.

- Also, I'm not very convinced on the takedown of Thanos. Yes, Drax beat Thanos, but Drax was literally made to kill Thanos, and seemed to exhibit some unique Thanos-killing power in that issue. No one on LV's team has anything like that. Thanos has taken multiple shots from a crazed Thor and suffered only a bloody nose, so I'm not expecting Wonder Woman to do much -- but I do buy that she could survive a while against him just by virtue of the fact that she's much faster than Thanos, and after all that's all LV has him do. But I'm also not really convinced Jaine could take out Thanos even with others holding him in place.

So, I somewhat see the lower level battles going to LV and the higher level battles going to AS. Which would probably mean an overall advantage to AS. But that said, AS didn't really tell me how his ubers would win, other than saying "Thanos is too powerful for Wonder Woman and Kayla is too inexperienced for Stryfe." At least LV gave me something that was specific enough that I could find fault with it.

So I guess I'll vote for Lady Vader mostly on the basis of effort. I agree with AS that his ubers have more power and experience than Wonder Woman and Kayla, respectively, but just saying "My team is more powerful and experienced" and finding fault with LV's writeup isn't enough of an argument to sway me. It's possible that AS's takedown of, say, Wonder Woman would have been just as flawed, but since he's not really telling me how he'd take her down, there's no way to judge.

I'm a little conflicted about this vote, because we are trying not to penalize people for choosing to keep their writeups short, but summarizing the entire Wonder Woman vs. Thanos battle with "Wonder Woman isn't strong enough for Thanos" seems a bit extreme. I could just as well write "Thanos isn't fast enough for Wonder Woman." It's not telling you much.

 

[Aristotle]

Heroes of the New Age vs. The Deadly Dozen: I gotta give it to Nightwing. I like his way of taking out Doomsday/Brainiac, who would have been the real decisive factor in XFanTim's favor. Furthermore, Juggernaut is maybe the only Earthling from the Marvel universe that I would give odds to against Doomsday. With Brainiac's connection severed, Juggernaut and J'onn could lure a mindless beast like Doomsday into the Danger Room fairly easily. After that, this is one of those battles that hinges on one uber fight, and J'onn and Juggernaut vs. Doomsday/Brainiac is that hinge.
Everybody in the Case Mare vs. In Jesus' Name: One paragraph of "uh, my team's better guys" doesn't cut it. This isn't penalizing a short writeup. This is penalizing the LACK of a writeup. It takes a HELL of a lineup for me to vote in favor of a no-show against a writeup, although I did it last match. And AS doesn't have that solid of a lineup. It's close, especially with his three ubers, but it's not quite enough to support no writeup.

 

[Nightwing]

Everybody in the Case Mare vs. In Jesus' Name

Ok so AS maybe arrogant and yes he didnt do much but X got beaten by a noshow and i personally think AS's team would take this one....it would be better if he showed it more by putting effort in but as it stands his team is the more powerful imo

 

[XFanTim]

With Brainiac's connection severed, Juggernaut and J'onn could lure a mindless beast like Doomsday into the Danger Room fairly easily.

At the risk of repeating myself, I still think my team has the brainpower and tech saavy (and familiarity with X-Men tech) to hack into the Danger Room and other X-Men computers and lock the other team out. And even if they failed at that, Magneto would just fry it with an EMP before letting it fall into enemy hands.

Ari is entitled to see it otherwise, of course. I'm just hoping I can convince some of the subsequent voters.

 

[AnnoyingSilence]

Heroes of the New Age vs. The Deadly Dozen: I gotta give it to Nightwing. I like his way of taking out Doomsday/Brainiac, who would have been the real decisive factor in XFanTim's favor. Furthermore, Juggernaut is maybe the only Earthling from the Marvel universe that I would give odds to against Doomsday. With Brainiac's connection severed, Juggernaut and J'onn could lure a mindless beast like Doomsday into the Danger Room fairly easily. After that, this is one of those battles that hinges on one uber fight, and J'onn and Juggernaut vs. Doomsday/Brainiac is that hinge.
Everybody in the Case Mare vs. In Jesus' Name: One paragraph of "uh, my team's better guys" doesn't cut it. This isn't penalizing a short writeup. This is penalizing the LACK of a writeup. It takes a HELL of a lineup for me to vote in favor of a no-show against a writeup, although I did it last match. And AS doesn't have that solid of a lineup. It's close, especially with his three ubers, but it's not quite enough to support no writeup.

your bitter vote shouldn't count

you don't know marvel (at all)anyway

her Whole team couldn't take on thanos... it woulda been kayla being leed by engineer who is DEFINITELY not used to that level of power or fighting THanos's level of fight

 

[AnnoyingSilence]

Everybody in the Case Mare vs. In Jesus' Name

Ok so AS maybe arrogant and yes he didnt do much but X got beaten by a noshow and i personally think AS's team would take this one....it would be better if he showed it more by putting effort in but as it stands his team is the more powerful imo

thats how you set apart personal feelings against what REALLY what happen, Arist

 

[AnnoyingSilence]

So I guess I'll vote for Lady Vader mostly on the basis of effort. I agree with AS that his ubers have more power and experience than Wonder Woman and Kayla, respectively, but just saying "My team is more powerful and experienced" and finding fault with LV's writeup isn't enough of an argument to sway me. It's possible that AS's takedown of, say, Wonder Woman would have been just as flawed, but since he's not really telling me how he'd take her down, there's no way to judge.

just like arist said... AS REALLY wins, but LV had more time on her hands

 

[AnnoyingSilence]

the facts here people, is that i win, but i had to spend too much time with life that i couldn't put up a write-up

and for real... what i put up IS more than enough to any real(who knows the ubers(which is what it REALLY comes down to)are whats important) voter to vote my way

 

[AnnoyingSilence]

what yall really need to see is that, i really don't have the time, but am making time(between 10-12hour work days and 2 kids) to spend time in the DTL

 

[AnnoyingSilence]

good night. i have 5-6hours sleep i can catch before the kids wake up

 

[Aristotle]

thats how you set apart personal feelings against what REALLY what happen, Arist

You didn't submit a writeup. You need a strong lineup to overcome that handicap. A VERY strong one. I didn't feel you had one that outstripped LadyVader enough to secure the vote without a writeup.

Regardless, I think this is a case of the lady protesting a bit too much. You talk so much about what my personal feelings are, and how they're supposedly influencing my vote, but I can't wait to see who you cast your vote for in my match. And the funniest thing is, you'll still have the gall to accuse me of voting based on my feelings, even after you do the same.

the facts here people, is that i win, but i had to spend too much time with life that i couldn't put up a write-up

I appreciate that, and I appreciate the fact that, regardless of whatever disagreements I have with you, you have stuck with the DTL at a time when it seems that more people are quitting than staying. And if one match you just can't get the writeup in, that's fine, and there's no shame in it. Life can get in the way sometimes. It almost got in my way this match. But don't expect a win without a writeup. It's always possible. But you can't expect it.

 

[XFanTim]

Sometimes real life gets in the way of stuff like this, and I sympathize, but that doesn't mean I'll give you a vote. If you choose to put real life priorities over the DTL (which is the smart thing to do) you have to live with your DTL standing suffering.

Do I think your team would win, based on how I imagine the fight in my head? Sure. But I'm supposed to base it on your version of the fight, and you didn't really give me much to go on. I don't doubt there's good reasons why, but I can still only vote based on what you do.