The Dark Knight Eckhart Speaks! (Again)

[Cinemaman]

Nice! Still one of the best cinematic villians ever.

Exactly

 

[StorminNorman]

Gordon INSTANTLY rebukes Harvey for his comments about Johnny Viti. he doesn't appreciate the dark sense of humour. Bats has to tell Harvey twice to stop thinking about taking the money. 'If we were two other guys''But we're not''Yeah, but I was just thinking how easy-''don't'.
So in the FIRST chapter of TLH Harv has already been reined in by both Bats and Gordon.

We can argue about this all night, and I don't think we'll agree. I view Harvey as a product of his own problems, compounded by the unique stresses of working in Gotham. I feel it makes for a more interesting character, and would serve TDK better, to show him as this conflicted man. I declare a truce!t:

So? Again - a sense of humor isn't an evil trait. Just because Gordan and Batman don't appreciate it doesn't mean that it is inheritantly bad. Again, in the same chapter Batman is more willing to cross ethical boundaries than Harvey is.

I don't want to see Harvey become another Anakin Skywalker. TLH is regarded as one of the best Bat Books for a reason - the way they handled Two Face is fantastic, I want that same character to be transfered on screen.

As far as a truce, there are certain pet peeves that I refuse to not defend: in the Hyper-verse such issues are: Paul Bettany IS Greatness, Superman Returns was a Great Movie, Smallville a better show if seen as a Lex Luthor story and Batman: The Animated Series has a horrible take on Harvey Dent. I will never surrender!

 

[ultimatefan]

Hey, I've seen actors say MUCH more in depth things about their characters even earlier in the process of a film. I'm just saying I'm not going to celebrate when he gives a "stock answer".



Right. But there's much, much more to Harvey Dent than that as a character. An actor saying that his villain is the opposite of the hero (aren't almost all villains?) doesn't tell me anything about him actually getting the character's motivations and specifics.

Who asked you to celebrate anything? Who´s celebrating anything? People just say "nice article" and to you it´s already reason to act like we´re all mindless suckup drones...

 

[Miranda Fox]

Who asked you to celebrate anything? Who´s celebrating anything? People just say "nice article" and to you it´s already reason to act like we´re all mindless suckup drones...

Wait, we're not? Boy, have we been lied too!

Nah, seriously, I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Aaron said and I'm not sure what Guard is going on about. He pretty much says in both interview he wants to delve into the character's psyche - isn't that a good thing?

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

ladies and gentleman...come now lets not fight..

5 points if you can guess the rubbish quote.

 

[ultimatefan]

Who really wants a competant actor?. I want the best and sorry imo Eckhart isnt it.

That´s all relative dude, who´s the best for you may not be the best for other fan.

 

[ultimatefan]

Wait, we're not? Boy, have we been lied too!

Nah, seriously, I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Aaron said and I'm not sure what Guard is going on about. He pretty says in both interview he wants to delve into the character's psyche - isn't that a good thing?

Don´t get me started, I been here five years and it doesn´t make sense for me either...

 

[Infinity9999x]

The dark side should be in the form of stress and frustration from the Justice System - not inner demons. That is what TLH shows.

I disagree. Like I said above, I think Harvey had many inner deamons. It was established before TLH that Harvey's father was abusive. Right when Harvey really starts to show his darker nature before becoming Two Face in TLH is after he visits his father in the mental home.

Now, here is Harvey, visiting the man who terrorized him as a little child, and the guy doesn't even remember him. The only thing he does is give Harvey the two sided coin he used to flip to see if Harvey would get beaten, obviously that's not going to do a lot for your phsyche.

Aside from that if you imply that only the stress of the city and currupt justice system puts Harvey over the edge, then you also impy he's weaker then Gordon, Batman, or any other straight cop in the city, which I think makes him a lesser character.

 

[StorminNorman]

I disagree. Like I said above, I think Harvey had many inner deamons. It was established before TLH that Harvey's father was abusive. Right when Harvey really starts to show his darker nature before becoming Two Face in TLH is after he visits his father in the mental home.

Now, here is Harvey, visiting the man who terrorized him as a little child, and the guy doesn't even remember him. The only thing he does is give Harvey the two sided coin he used to flip to see if Harvey would get beaten, obviously that's not going to do a lot for your phsyche.

Aside from that if you imply that only the stress of the city and currupt justice system puts Harvey over the edge, then you also impy he's weaker then Gordon, Batman, or any other straight cop in the city, which I think makes him a lesser character.

But in TLH Harvey has already gone though all those problems and that chaotic upbringing and has come out of it a good man. Again - I think that furthers his Golden Boy nature.

By the time Harvey visits his father, the stress of work is already starting to take its toll on Harvey. However, if Maroni doesn't throw the acid in the face of Harvey, and if he testifies like he was suppose to, and if Maroni went behind bars like he should of (which one could argue, would of happened in any city but Gotham) then Harvey would of come out of the trial with his sanity.

I am saying the stress and the pressure from his job put him in an environment where Two-Face was possible, not that they were the direct cause. The direct cause is, of course, the acid in the face. It was that incident, on top of Harvey losing all faith in the Justice System that leads him to becoming Two Face.

 

[Infinity9999x]

But in TLH Harvey has already gone though all those problems and that chaotic upbringing and has come out of it a good man. Again - I think that furthers his Golden Boy nature.

By the time Harvey visits his father, the stress of work is already starting to take its toll on Harvey. However, if Maroni doesn't throw the acid in the face of Harvey, and if he testifies like he was suppose to, and if Maroni went behind bars like he should of (which one could argue, would of happened in any city but Gotham) then Harvey would of come out of the trial with his sanity.

I am saying the stress and the pressure from his job put him in an environment where Two-Face was possible, not that they were the direct cause. The direct cause is, of course, the acid in the face. It was that incident, on top of Harvey losing all faith in the Justice System that leads him to becoming Two Face.

I agree with that, all the stress and everything mentioned above most definatley contributed to creating Two Face.
But I don't think you can write off the child abuse, that is stated to be where his obsession with 2 came about. (where his father would tell him he'd get beaten if he flipped heads, and it always was heads because it was a 2 headed coin)

Yes, Harvey did manage to get through that, but obviously when growing up with traumatic events like that, it's going to scar you. I think the immense stress he experienced in the year leading up to the Maroni trial, started slowing bringing to surface his old mental scars. The visit to his father enhanced this, and the scarring from Marioni finally brought everything, the stress of the city, and whatever other damages to his phsyche had been caused by his father, to a head.

 

[StorminNorman]

I agree with that, all the stress and everything mentioned above most definatley contributed to creating Two Face.
But I don't think you can write off the child abuse, that is stated to be where his obsession with 2 came about. (where his father would tell him he'd get beaten if he flipped heads, and it always was heads because it was a 2 headed coin)

Yes, Harvey did manage to get through that, but obviously when growing up with traumatic events like that, it's going to scar you. I think the immense stress he experienced in the year leading up to the Maroni trial, started slowing bringing to surface his old mental scars. The visit to his father enhanced this, and the scarring from Marioni finally brought everything, the stress of the city, and whatever other damages to his phsyche had been caused by his father, to a head.

I am not saying that his child abuse didn't play a role into his decline - only that it was not the catalyst to Harvey's decent into the dark side.

B:TAS displayed Harvey as one who had a BAD side underneath, just waiting to bust out.

TLH displayed Harvey as being a good guy that had issues - but was still a good guy. His BAD Two-Face side came after his accident and was caused by the external stress and his new found distrust in the Justice System. Was he predisposed to events that helped shape Harvey's darkness - like the child abuse, yes. But was that the main cause for Two-Face? No.

I hate the former, I want the latter.

 

[Crooklyn]

Surely this ends the debate. Two-Face to appear in TDK. Can't wait!

I hope he's either referring to the franchise as a whole, or that he'll be showing a bit of a dark side in TDK.

I don't want Two-Face just yet, we need to develop Harvey as much as we can. It's why I think we took a loss in not having him featured during BB. I'm fine with the scarring at TDK's end, but full-on Two-Face should be saved for the next sequel.

 

[ghost_x]

Well if they drag out two-face to the third movie, which I'm guessing due to Nolans busy schedule and need to vary genre, it will most likely be his last film (I reckon he will want to do something different after the triology). In that case he will probably like to get another villain in as well, possibly penguin? So he would also need time to expand on the latest villain, so maybe introducing two-face before the end of this film is a smart move.

 

[DorkyFresh]

i don't mind if Two-Face is shown at the end of TDK. it'd be an awesome cliffhanger for the general audience that doesn't know much about Two-Face (i.e. that he's Harvey Dent).

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

i think he will show up sooner than that..last 20 mins.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

I hope he's either referring to the franchise as a whole, or that he'll be showing a bit of a dark side in TDK.

I don't want Two-Face just yet, we need to develop Harvey as much as we can. It's why I think we took a loss in not having him featured during BB. I'm fine with the scarring at TDK's end, but full-on Two-Face should be saved for the next sequel.

Co-signed.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I am not saying that his child abuse didn't play a role into his decline - only that it was not the catalyst to Harvey's decent into the dark side.

B:TAS displayed Harvey as one who had a BAD side underneath, just waiting to bust out.

TLH displayed Harvey as being a good guy that had issues - but was still a good guy. His BAD Two-Face side came after his accident and was caused by the external stress and his new found distrust in the Justice System. Was he predisposed to events that helped shape Harvey's darkness - like the child abuse, yes. But was that the main cause for Two-Face? No.

I hate the former, I want the latter.

Ahh okay, I get what you're saying now. That's what I want too, I wasn't a fan of the TAS version either.

Basically I see Two Face as the same kind of guy as you do, a good guy who has had just a bunch of very bad instances in his life, until it finally all builds up and he snaps at the acid moment.

At first I thought you were saying that gotham's corruption and only that should be the factor that creates Two Face, and that none of the events in his past played a part in his eventual breakdown.

 

[xanberkeley]

I must say Im glad we got Eckhart aboard and happy he won the Spirit award. Im even more of a fan of him than Heath Ledger.

 

[The Guard]

More than anything, the few people who even posted in this thread before you seemed most excited that Eckhart had anything to say about his role. You know how precious news items are at this stage of the game. I didn't see anyone claiming that Eckhart had some incredibly profound commentary on Harvey Dent; at most it is simply nice to hear what appears to be geniuine interest in the role he just received and will be playing for two films.
Your endless need to rain on people's parades is growing tiresome.

If a simple point like "Let's not assume he gets the character just yet, when all he's really indicated is that he understands basic ideas about villains" actually ruins their so called "parade", they must not be very committed to enjoying said parade. I've not said his comments were "bad", I simply said we can't read a whole lot into them just yet.

They can make Harvey a deep, real person without giving him a true darkside. Harvey is the youngest D.A. in Gotham History- allude to the pressure he feels from that. Maybe his wife is concerned with the amount of time and energy he wraps himself in his jobs with. Perhaps he is too dedicated to saving Gotham. But do NOT make him have a dark demon inside him - again, it downplays the role Gotham plays in his transformation, doing the character a disservice.

No, they can't. Because then his "turning" is less believeable. Good to bad, just like that? No thank you. Stress and trauma alone does not make monsters. We all have a dark side in some way or another, and we all make choices about who to be, and that is something THE DARK KNIGHT should play with. How some of us control it, how others repress it in unhealthy ways, and how others let it out, and why. And the cost of doing such things. I think downplaying Harvey's darkside does the character a massive disservice. Evil is not something that happens to you. It's something you choose to become. You choose to harm, and to take revenge. And that is Harvey Dent's journey. It's a tragedy, but in th end, it's tragic because of the path he chooses.

Who asked you to celebrate anything? Who´s celebrating anything? People just say "nice article" and to you it´s already reason to act like we´re all mindless suckup drones...

I never said a thing about anything being wrong with saying "nice article". I'm referring to the people who think Eckhardt "gets it" based on the "stock statements" he's given.

Nah, seriously, I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Aaron said and I'm not sure what Guard is going on about. He pretty much says in both interview he wants to delve into the character's psyche - isn't that a good thing?

I never said there was a thing wrong with what he said. I simply remarked that we cannot assume he GETS Harvey Dent just yet, based on what he has actually said. Yes, delving into a character's psyche is a great thing, but he hasn't said a thing about what the character's psyche actually consists of.

I don't want the Golden Boy character. I want a pre-existing obsession, and a dark side. Not a psychotic side, but a dark side, that grows and grows, until turns. Let's not forget that Harvey Dent did things that could be considered evil in THE LONG HALLOWEEN before he ever became Two-Face. His obsession with bringing justice to those he considered guilty ruined him. I want the most complex version of the character. I don't want some perfect man who just goes insane because of acid. I want someone who struggled to be a good man, who had a dark side because of his obsession, who hid that side of himself from the world and repressed that dark side until it grew, and who later on used what happened to him as an excuse to do wrong, to seek revenge. Essentially, when his world crumbles, and he finds himself filled with hate and rage, as an excuse to act on his darker impulses.

 

[ultimatefan]

If a simple point like "Let's not assume he gets the character just yet, when all he's really indicated is that he understands basic ideas about villains" actually ruins their so called "parade", they must not be very committed to enjoying said parade. I've not said his comments were "bad", I simply said we can't read a whole lot into them just yet.

No, they can't. Because then his "turning" is less believeable. Good to bad, just like that? No thank you. Stress and trauma alone does not make monsters. We all have a dark side in some way or another, and we all make choices about who to be, and that is something THE DARK KNIGHT should play with. How some of us control it, how others repress it in unhealthy ways, and how others let it out, and why. And the cost of doing such things. I think downplaying Harvey's darkside does the character a massive disservice. Evil is not something that happens to you. It's something you choose to become. You choose to harm, and to take revenge. And that is Harvey Dent's journey. It's a tragedy, but in th end, it's tragic because of the path he chooses.



I never said a thing about anything being wrong with saying "nice article". I'm referring to the people who think Eckhardt "gets it" based on the "stock statements" he's given.



I never said there was a thing wrong with what he said. I simply remarked that we cannot assume he GETS Harvey Dent just yet, based on what he has actually said. Yes, delving into a character's psyche is a great thing, but he hasn't said a thing about what the character's psyche actually consists of.

I don't want the Golden Boy character. I want a pre-existing obsession, and a dark side. Not a psychotic side, but a dark side, that grows and grows, until turns. Let's not forget that Harvey Dent did things that could be considered evil in THE LONG HALLOWEEN before he ever became Two-Face. His obsession with bringing justice to those he considered guilty ruined him. I want the most complex version of the character. I don't want some perfect man who just goes insane because of acid. I want someone who struggled to be a good man, who had a dark side because of his obsession, who hid that side of himself from the world and repressed that dark side until it grew, and who later on used what happened to him as an excuse to do wrong, to seek revenge. Essentially, when his world crumbles, and he finds himself filled with hate and rage, as an excuse to act on his darker impulses.

What he says so far has been right IMO, so as far as what he´s said, he gets it. Harvey has a huge history in comics, if we´re to be rigid he could talk five pages about the character and still not get everything.