Bandai-Namco Elden Ring

[The Infernal]

So FromSoftware will nerf powerful builds but wont make an "easier" mode for casual gamers? wtf?

Well that's at least consistent.

 

[TheVileOne]

So FromSoftware will nerf powerful builds but wont make an "easier" mode for casual gamers? wtf?

That's not what they do. You don't play FromSoftware games for an easy mode.

 

[Tubeofboom]

So I'm level 109, haven't finished the main story yet, I think have like 2 great rune bosses to go but... It's like the spell of Elden Ring has just spontaneously worn off. I suddenly and weirdly have no desire to play it. I can't even put my finger on it... But the whole gameplay loop just has suddenly left me feeling really cold on it all?

Part of it definitely might be those recent nerfs. I didn't even use Mimic Tear that much, but reading about how badly it was altered (it does less damage, the AI is now "walk into walls" stupid, can't heal itself and uses spells 75% less often), to me it completely undermines what this game is selling you. Which is, the game is very difficult, but if you put in the work, you can become super powerful. I was mostly invested in the power level grind, making the perfect build. But now the magic feels dampened because... FromSoft could just nerf any powerful build on a whim?

To me, the potential for super powerful builds and collecting legendary weapons was like the pay off for how truly cheap many of their bosses are. Now it sort of all feels hollow? I feel like I've lost any motivation to seek out powerful weapons and then invest a 100 smithing stones into them.

I think that combined with the fact that once you start to encounter plenty of repeating bosses, the magic of discovery wears off a little bit too. And the tough ones can be so cheap it doesn't even feel satisfying to beat them? That Commander Niall fight was so crappy for my melee build. They basically force you to use summons, and even then you just have to get super lucky with who you find and RNG boss moves. Beating him just felt so empty haha. I

I dunno, I might need to move onto other games and process this weird sudden lapse in enjoyment haha Can't remember bouncing off a game so suddenly before.

I definitely understand the frustration in this. Although the only nerf I’m really upset about is the nerf to General Radahn . To be fair though the nerfs are really due to pvp, except maybe mimic tear. Not sure how many players were using that in pvp. In pve builds get screwed over quite a bit because fromsoft also has to account for pvp unfortunately. The respec option does help though. Arcane got a boost and bleed is extremely good now .

 

[X Knight]

That's not what they do. You don't play FromSoftware games for an easy mode.

This is how I feel. It is precisely for the challenge why my current self is attracted to these Souls games. That plus the overall world/setting/lore of these games which I find interesting, despite the "sparse" storytelling.

It may take me 50 times or even a 100 times to defeat a certain enemy or boss or to clear a certain area. But it is immensely satisfying when I do.

In the past, I was turned off by the challenge and structure of these games. The whole idea of dying/trying again/repeating just didn't appeal to me. And I can understand if the challenging nature of these games does not appeal to you. However, I do not think the From games need an "easy mode" to appeal to more casual gamers. That's just not what these games are supposed to be about. Just like I wouldn't want a Mario game to be super challenging or frustrating, as that is not what that kind of game is supposed to be, either.

And in many respects, compared to Demon's Souls and what little I've played of Bloodborne, I feel like Elden Ring is already more accessible or "beginner friendly" due some of its new mechanics and quality of life features. But the game still retains the signature challenging DNA that makes a From/Souls game.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Just like I wouldn't want a Mario game to be super challenging or frustrating, as that is not what that kind of game is supposed to be, either.

Hey now. Who says Mario games aren’t super challenging and frustrating? No lie; I’ve never beaten Super Mario 1 or 3 no matter how many times I’ve tried, lol. ****ing time limits….

 

[Punisher_MAX]

I'm not saying "easy mode" for the game, but a more accessible mode.

I'm fine with the challenge but its hypocritical to nerf OP builds that people put the time in to make yet refuse to make a more accessible mode to casual gamers.

 

[The Infernal]

Where's the hypocracy? I can understand the frustration of a power build being nerfed, but it's clearly in keeping with the theme of a challenging game.

And how is asking for an "accessible mode" not just asking for an easy mode?

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I think the hypocrisy is that a common argument made in relation to the games difficulty is that, any tool you have at your disposal to overcome a difficult boss is fair game. So if you find a way to cheese an impossible challenge, that's just as fair as the dude who dodges their way to victory. That whole philosophy was one of the main equalisers of the game.

So to have several of those strategies nerfed to keep the odds stacked against the player feels like a bit of a slap in the face of that specific game promise. It's basically the devs admitting "No, if its in the game it is NOT fair game". I think it undermines every other aspect of the game. If the aspects of the game that make you feel powerful were out of balance, who's to say the challenges or the bosses aren't similarly out of balance?

 

[The Infernal]

That's a reach and overly dramatic. You just argued against any kind of change or update via patch to the game. They make the decisions at the end of the day and it's not hypocracy to nerf power builds.

 

[metaphysician]

I think this is mostly another lesson in how toxic the "everything is online, everything is multiplayer" design philosophy is. My interest level in what *should* be a single player game plummets every time they insist on forcing some mandatory multiplayer element. . . and game balance changes centered around PVP are the *worst* multiplayer element. You can balance around PVE or PVP, but if you do both at the same time, it *will* suck. There is a reason most MMOs have switched to a "PVP uses a completely separate mechanical system from PVE" design paradigm.

 

[metaphysician]

That's a reach and overly dramatic. You just argued against any kind of change or update via patch to the game. They make the decisions at the end of the day and it's not hypocracy to nerf power builds.

It may not make From hypocrites, but it *absolutely* makes the fans who claim "Souls totally has an easy mode, its [specific class/build/weapon]" into hypocrites.

 

[obredaan]

I think this is mostly another lesson in how toxic the "everything is online, everything is multiplayer" design philosophy is. My interest level in what *should* be a single player game plummets every time they insist on forcing some mandatory multiplayer element. . . and game balance changes centered around PVP are the *worst* multiplayer element. You can balance around PVE or PVP, but if you do both at the same time, it *will* suck. There is a reason most MMOs have switched to a "PVP uses a completely separate mechanical system from PVE" design paradigm.

The franchise has always been geared for both PVE and PVP. Even going back to Demons Souls, the PVP was fundamental to manipulating world tendencies. Yes the games can be played offline but they were never designed as a single player only experience.

 

[The Infernal]

It may not make From hypocrites, but it *absolutely* makes the fans who claim "Souls totally has an easy mode, its [specific class/build/weapon]" into hypocrites.

What are you even talking about? The devs changing specs of builds that the fans use makes the fans hypocrites?

 

[obredaan]

Sorry, as someone not as familiar with FromSoft, are you guys saying that even after you build your character into a juggernaut, they add in new elements to weaken attacks that you can’t do anything about? That’s annoying.

Every souls game has received patches that nerf/buff items and builds. This patch is no different than the dozens of other patches for every souls game in existence. While certain elements are weakened others are bolstered thus ensuring we all don't end up just playing with the same 2 or 3 OP builds for the next 5 years.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

That's a reach and overly dramatic. You just argued against any kind of change or update via patch to the game. They make the decisions at the end of the day and it's not hypocracy to nerf power builds.

Dramatic, perhaps, but not a reach at all. As someone who has tried and struggled to get into every FromSoft game, I've been told for years by friends and colleagues all about the ebb and flow of gameplay, the challenges you overcome and how it helps you grow more powerful and that at the end of the day, cheesing bosses is a valid tactic. I've heard so many damn lectures about how well designed their games are and that "If it's in the game, it's a valid tactic!"

So imagine how I feel, with the first FromSoft game that has well and truly grabbed me, when I have to completely respec my build because it turns out "If it's in the game, it's a valid tactic" wasn't true.

I'm all about a challenging game, and I know game development is all about manipulating your players down a certain path. But I think when players can feel that manipulation happening in realtime, it cheapens the experience.

So stuff like this definitely takes the shine off a game I was completely enamoured with the week before.

What are you even talking about? The devs changing specs of builds that the fans use makes the fans hypocrites?

Yeah, I definitely thing many fans are so taken by this whole series they're not willing to engage critically at all. A great example is in launch week, people were annoyed at the lack of quest tracking. But the fans came out in droves to shout them down, because not having quest tracking was "The whole point!"

Yet what did FromSoft add in their latest patch? NPC naming/quest tracking for your map. It's possible to love this game but still be critical of design choices. But for the people who can't do that, it can come off as hypocritical if they're ignoring the inconsistencies in their own arguments.

 

[The Infernal]

This is just salt tbh. Fans have no control of what is put into the game. So someone telling you to use whatever tactic is available doesn't suddenly become a hypocrite because the devs remove something.

 

[obredaan]

Yeah, I definitely thing many fans are so taken by this whole series they're not willing to engage critically at all. A great example is in launch week, people were annoyed at the lack of quest tracking. But the fans came out in droves to shout them down, because not having quest tracking was "The whole point!"

Yet what did FromSoft add in their latest patch? NPC naming/quest tracking for your map. It's possible to love this game but still be critical of design choices. But for the people who can't do that, it can come off as hypocritical if they're ignoring the inconsistencies in their own arguments.

There's no quest tracking. They only added the NPC names to the map.

 

[Deck Rickard]

The memes for this game have been great. Elden Ring appears to be the new Skyrim in that regard.

 

[BrollySupersj]

Devs nerfing powerbuilds is without a doubt one of the pettiest habits of the industry. Like they're ******** that players found a way to outmanuever their game's arbitrary BS.

I'm glad I bought a physical copy so that I'll always have the option of playing the game without From's meddling.

Agreed, and I don't even play Elden Ring. But I feel in a single player game, if you can find and use ways to become super saiyan 3 god mode, and thrash all who stand in your way, keep it that way.

 

[Marvolo]

 

[obredaan]

The first time I came across those bats I had no idea where the singing was coming from. I probably explored the area for a good 30 minutes just searching for an NPC before I realized it was the bat that was singing.

 

[Marvolo]

The first time I came across those bats I had no idea where the singing was coming from. I probably explored the area for a good 30 minutes just searching for an NPC before I realized it was the bat that was singing.

Same. The one I found was surrounded by hostile bats and I after I killed them I saw that thing and thought it was a harpy that would attack so I killed it. I felt bad about it.

 

[obredaan]

Same. The one I found was surrounded by hostile bats and I after I killed them I saw that thing and thought it was a harpy that would attack so I killed it. I felt bad about it.

I noticed that as soon as I would attack the bats the Harpy stops singing. Its definately a trap to lure you in as everyone who comes across the singing will instantly follow the beautiful voice.

 

[Marvolo]

My session this morning was bad. I lost probably 100,000 runes over the 6 hours I played.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

My session this morning was bad. I lost probably 100,000 runes over the 6 hours I played.

I try to spend my runes after a certain amount so I'm not as mad when I die. I usually level up or buy useful stuff.