Elder Scrolls V - Part 6

[Paladin-Hoss]

Found some article about PS3 Skyrim's problem explained by Joshua Sawyer, lead dev of Fallout:NV

"It's an engine-level issue with how the save game data is stored off as bit flag differences compared to the placed instances in the main .esm + DLC .esms," Sawyer explained. "As the game modifies any placed instance of an object, those changes are stored off into what is essentially another .esm. When you load the save game, you're loading all of those differences into resident memory."

"Some areas will reset contents after three (game) days, but a lot of stuff lingers. Additionally, we also have to deal with 'persistent references,' he continued. "These are objects that are immediately loaded with the game because we need to be able to reference them anywhere/everywhere in the world -- even if the player is nowhere near the object. Characters are the most common example. All of the companions need to be able to move around the world even when they are not in your current area, so they are all persistent references."

Apparently the problem occurs on every system, but is most apparent on the PS3 because it divides its 512 megs of Ram between graphics and memory, while the Xbox 360 can allocate its full 512 megs to either purpose and the average gaming PC has dedicated memory for both functions.

So...like i said, issue with Dawnguard is most likely RAM issue

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I think, ultimately, they should just flat out ask PS3 owners which they would prefer: a possibly bugged release, or no release at all? Because that's really the only option, it seems.

They don't need to ask that. PS3 owners already have the option of not purchasing the game if they don't want to deal with its issues.

 

[Balthus Dire]

That's true, I was just trying to offer some legit perspective, as it seems like people are quick to throw Bethesda under the bus either way. Don't release it? You're holding back a great title. Release it? It's buggy as balls due to problems with compatibility.

They can't win.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

^^ yup..it's a no win situation for Beth

 

[StrainedEyes]

Maybe it would be better if people didn't swallow Bethesda's buggy games so easily. Yes they are large and dynamic worlds, but Bethesda should be held responsible if they can't get it to run properly. No other company has such a consistent history of releasing broken games and being praised for it. They knew the limitations of the PS3, and have even dealt with the exact same RAM issues in the past, so it's entirely on them that the PS3 version is so broken because they made it and they released it. It's not Sony's fault that Bethesda is in the extreme minority of companies that can't make their **** work on the system.

Just saying.

Anyway, I sure as hell hope their future expansions are more appealing than Dawnguard was.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

I think the term 'broken games' is being thrown around too easily these days. It's stupid to just blame Bethesda when the hardware itself is also a problem. Sony decided to split the RAM and that decision came back and bit them in the ass now.

And if Beth had decided NOT to release the game on PS3, the fans would rage anyway

You said that Beth is in the extreme minorities, that's true, because comparing the games from other companies on PS3,not one i think matched Skyrim in terms of sheer contents and complexity. Skyrim containts so many variables in game, that you can't really compare it to other more linear games that does work on PS3.

 

[Havok83]

They get a pass for this happening in the early years of the PS3 when Oblivion and Fallout 3 were ported, but 6 years down the line, they should have anticipiated this and approached how they developed it differently which brings me to....

The simplest way around this problem according to my very limited understanding in all this thing is for Beth dev's to rebuild the game engine from the ground up to compensate for the splitted RAM which i don't think is an option they will ever consider.

So..i don't think it's just as simple as 'broken Skyrim'

Dont you think it would have saved them trouble and made more sense had they done this before they developed the game and released it, instead of after the fact? Again, they'd released several PS3 games to know this issue exists

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Maybe they just don't care? They feel, like many others that Sony is swirling the toilet and they're just throwing something out there to see if people will bite. Luckily for them, like 4 million ppl did.

 

[Havok83]

Maybe they just don't care? They feel, like many others that Sony is swirling the toilet and they're just throwing something out there to see if people will bite. Luckily for them, like 4 million ppl did.

and thats why they are in the mess they are in right now. If thats really the case then people have every right to complain

 

[ProjectPat2280]

and thats why they are in the mess they are in right now. If thats really the case then people have every right to complain

Oh yea I agree. They deff have that right but again I don't think Beth cares. The PS3 brings them in fewer sales than both the PC and 360. They feel they don't need Sonys console now or going forward. Which is why I think they knew of the problems and just said eff it. I mean their gamble paid off to an extent, they sold a bunch of copies initially.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

They get a pass for this happening in the early years of the PS3 when Oblivion and Fallout 3 were ported, but 6 years down the line, they should have anticipiated this and approached how they developed it differently which brings me to....

Like i said, it's not so simple. The requirements for Skyrim far exceeds that of Fallout 3 let alone Oblivion. I think what happpened was, they THOUGHT they they had a way to overcome the problem, especially when Skyrim DOES work on PS3.The real problem started with Dawnguard.The system already stretched to the max with Skyrim alone, so Dawnguard probably killed it.

They MAY have thought that the system could handle expansions, but probably Dawnguard got more and more things added to it along the way that made it almost impossible for PS3 system.

Dont you think it would have saved them trouble and made more sense had they done this before they developed the game and released it, instead of after the fact? Again, they'd released several PS3 games to know this issue exists

And what would you have preffered...they knew that the way they made their games made them not suitable for PS3, had they decided NOT to bring the game out for PS3, all of you would scream bloody murder. And if they decided to give the PS3 players a toned down version of Skyrim so the system could handle it, all of you would scream bloody murder too...

It´s a no win situation

Edit: just remembered...i gues one thing that they could do...i remember when Obsidian released Fallout:NV for the PS3, fans were complaining about how buggy it was.

Obsidian then released a patch that actually REDUCED the number of NPC's ingame to ensure that the game could run properly.Now, wheter that actually worked, i don't know, but i supposed Beth could do the same thing-reduced the NPC's...

If they do this, it would means less sources and data to be stored and in theory could make the game runs smoother.

That said, it would have noticeable effects in game too...for example, during the battle of Whiterun, instead of fighting ten Stormcloaks soldiers, you could be fighting just two of them. less bandits encounters, less spawning points in-game...and in Dawnguard, probably no random vampires atacking towns etc.

 

[Havok83]

Like i said, it's not so simple. The requirements for Skyrim far exceeds that of Fallout 3 let alone Oblivion. I think what happpened was, they THOUGHT they they had a way to overcome the problem, especially when Skyrim DOES work on PS3.The real problem started with Dawnguard.The system already stretched to the max with Skyrim alone, so Dawnguard probably killed it.

They MAY have thought that the system could handle expansions, but probably Dawnguard got more and more things added to it along the way that made it almost impossible for PS3 system.

No it didnt. The issues started with the base game as was reported last year when it was released

And what would you have preffered...they knew that the way they made their games made them not suitable for PS3, had they decided NOT to bring the game out for PS3, all of you would scream bloody murder. And if they decided to give the PS3 players a toned down version of Skyrim so the system could handle it, all of you would scream bloody murder too...

That really doesnt answer my question as all you did was answer back with another question

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

No it didnt. The issues started with the base game as was reported last year when it was released

That's just overly simplified observation IMO.For as many PS3 players experiencing severe problems with the game, there are just as many who has no real problems with the game, hell there are PS3 player on this thread who has finished the game...bugs, glitches and all. That, to me means that despite the bugs and whatnot the game DOES work on PS3. The problem is that most gamers cannot make the distinction between flaws in the game and the game being actually 'broken'

A broken game to me, means that the game is virtually unplayable right out of the box.

That really doesnt answer my question as all you did was answer back with another question

Try this then..it's not as simple as most people would like to think. Of course they know that the PS3 limitations would be a problem for their games, but the way Beth designed it, there really is no magic cure for the problem..Either Sony redesigned the PS3, or Beth rebuild the game engine to suit the PS3 .Neither are viable options.So then they're left with the questions...like i mentioened in previous post.

In my opinion, people should take into account that at the very least, they are working to solve the problem. It's not like Beth is purposedly screwing PS3 players because of some sinister deal with Microsoft.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Maybe they just don't care? They feel, like many others that Sony is swirling the toilet and they're just throwing something out there to see if people will bite. Luckily for them, like 4 million ppl did.

Meh if they really didn't care they wouldn't have even bothered trying to fix any of the issues. They've already said they've been trying to work out the problems by working with Sony, but it's just not working out.

 

[StrainedEyes]

That's just overly simplified observation IMO.For as many PS3 players experiencing severe problems with the game, there are just as many who has no real problems with the game, hell there are PS3 player on this thread who has finished the game...bugs, glitches and all. That, to me means that despite the bugs and whatnot the game DOES work on PS3. The problem is that most gamers cannot make the distinction between flaws in the game and the game being actually 'broken'

A broken game to me, means that the game is virtually unplayable right out of the box.

Skyrim on the PS3 was broken out of the box, it's well documented. Once your reached a certain save file size, the game would drop to an unplayable framerate after extended periods of play. Just because plenty of people were willing to trudge through it, or alter their play-style to avoid it, doesn't make the game any less broken. Add the PS3 unique issues onto the numerous bugs and glitches that all the versions have; crashing, scripting errors, etc... and you have one broken game.

Obviously a game that instantly crashes, all the time, out of the box is actually broken. But when the hell does that ever happen?

 

[ProjectPat2280]

The only way to "de-werewolf" is to go to that tomb that the Companions hang out in right? What do you do when you get there?

Also, once you "de-werewolf" theres no way to go back correct?

Another thing, if you off your wife, can you get remarried?

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Skyrim on the PS3 was broken out of the box, it's well documented. Once your reached a certain save file size, the game would drop to an unplayable framerate after extended periods of play. Just because plenty of people were willing to trudge through it, or alter their play-style to avoid it, doesn't make the game any less broken. Add the PS3 unique issues onto the numerous bugs and glitches that all the versions have; crashing, scripting errors, etc... and you have one broken game.

Obviously a game that instantly crashes, all the time, out of the box is actually broken. But when the hell does that ever happen?

That 's not the game fault. That's PS 3 issue because of their limited RAM. I've already mentioned it several times.

So..no...

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

The only way to "de-werewolf" is to go to that tomb that the Companions hang out in right?

Also, once you "de-werewolf" theres no way to go back correct?

Another thing, if you off your wife, can you get remarried?

I'm not sure on the console version, but i can ask Aela to make me a werewolf again.

You can get married again, if i'm not mistaken. But there is a bug where your..dead wife body would show up in the temple on your wedding day. Once that happens, your new spouse will refuse to marry you..


Actually, it was mentioned on the wiki page, but i don't actually knows if it's true or not.

 

[StrainedEyes]

That 's not the game fault. That's PS 3 issue because of their limited RAM. I've already mentioned it several times.

So..no...

Uh, yes it is the game's fault. Bethesda has subsequently patched out the majority of the save/fps issues. The PS3 hasn't changed.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I'm not sure on the console version, but i can ask Aela to make me a werewolf again.

You can get married again, if i'm not mistaken. But there is a bug where your..dead wife body would show up in the temple on your wedding day. Once that happens, your new spouse will refuse to marry you..


Actually, it was mentioned on the wiki page, but i don't actually knows if it's true or not.

LOL.

Yea i deff dont want the dead ol lady showing back up.

 

[Balthus Dire]

You can also obtain the Ring of Hircine by completing "Ill Met by Moonlight" in Falkreath, which allows you to transform into a werewolf an unlimited number of times per day.

IMO Werwolf form sucked horribly in the vanilla version of Skyrim. It was cool to look at, but useless in combat. I see that they added a new skill tree specifically for werewolves in Dawnguard, though, so I'm stoked to check that out.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Uh, yes it is the game's fault. Bethesda has subsequently patched out the majority of the save/fps issues. The PS3 hasn't changed.

*sigh* you just don't get it do you..i get you hate the fact that your Skyrim isn't working..

Here it is again.

PS3 Ram-256MB/ Skyrim engine-thousands and thousand and thousands interactable items, data, variables that needs to be tracked.
Results=256MB gets overwhelmed.Causes freezes,lag,crashes.
Xbox=512RAM=doesn't get overwhelmed.=game can play okay despite bugs,glitches and whatnot
PC= no comment
Bethesda= no make decision to split RAM
Bathesda patches for PS3= i'm no programer=don't know what they did=don't have PS3=don't know if it's fixed issues=only know what i read.

Bad RAM config=problem exist in the first place=Sony fault for wanting pretty pictures, instead of storing important game data

......

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

You can also obtain the Ring of Hircine by completing "Ill Met by Moonlight" in

Falkreath, which allows you to transform into a werewolf an unlimited number of times per day.

IMO Werwolf form sucked horribly in the vanilla version of Skyrim. It was cool to look at, but useless in combat. I see that they added a new skill tree specifically for werewolves in Dawnguard, though, so I'm stoked to check that out.

Hell yeah...i actually liked the werewolf perks more than the vampire lord's

And i think you can ask Aela to turn you again if you lose the werewolf ability.

 

[StrainedEyes]

*sigh* you just don't get it do you..i get you hate the fact that your Skyrim isn't working..

Here it is again.

PS3 Ram-256MB/ Skyrim engine-thousands and thousand and thousands interactable items, data, variables that needs to be tracked.
Results=256MB gets overwhelmed.Causes freezes,lag,crashes.
Xbox=512RAM=doesn't get overwhelmed.=game can play okay despite bugs,glitches and whatnot
PC= no comment
Bethesda= no make decision to split RAM
Bathesda patches for PS3= i'm no programer=don't know what they did=don't have PS3=don't know if it's fixed issues=only know what i read.

Bad RAM config=problem exist in the first place=Sony fault for wanting pretty pictures, instead of storing important game data

......

If the problems can be patched out, then the game itself is the issue. It's really as simple as that. The patches didn't effect the PS3's RAM, only how the game dealt with it. I get that you really like Bethesda, but they are at fault. It's not like they were all of a sudden surprised by what the PS3 can and can't do at the last second.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Correction...i don't REALLY like bethesda, i just hate whiny gamers....or their over inflated sense of consumer entitlement.

As far as the patches..last time i'm gonna try to explain this. This is what i think they do with the patches, and again, i'm no programmer , so...

Saves games represents recorded changes from the game world from vanilla state, to the changes YOU made as you play the game.Obviously, as you go further, the save games will grow larger and larger, and it's no programming error, it's just the way it is.

So what I personally think Beth did was taking things out of the game to compensate for PS3 RAM.less things to record. Much like Obsidian did with NV, when they released a patch that reduced NPC's

Now, i don't think that means it's the game fault, because they didn't do that with other platforms.It works everywhere else.

Done.