Endgame Falcon/Sam Wilson - Anthony Mackie

[BoredGuy]

Spoiler

Aside from the oft stated fact that the US Government would most probably not happily accept The Winter Soldier, a wanted political murderer for decades brainwashed or not, as the next Cap the thematic point of the scene was passing the legacy onto a new generation.

Giving Bucky the mantle of the MCU's lead hero, more or less, isn't an appropriate form of redemption because quite frankly it sends out the wrong message. The message that you can commit the worst acts and atrocities and be granted a prize as a sign of forgiveness is dunderheaded.

Spoiler

But you make it sound as though Bucky willingly murdered all those people, ignoring the whole brainwashed aspect. And it's not a prize, it's a role in which he'd have to prove himself to find true redemption. Plus, it's not the government's decision who is Captain America.

Also, in the comics, Bucky's identity as Cap was kept somewhat under wraps, as was the fact that he was the Winter Soldier. Granted, in the MCU it's known that Bucky Barnes was the Winter Soldier. But the Avengers could still keep that secret, and everyone would assume Steve Rogers was still the Captain (something they definitely can't do with Sam).The Public doesn't know he time traveled to go live out his life and came back old.

Sam's just too vanilla, imo, and has his own, uncomprimised hero identity. Falcon can lead the Avengers, that's fine. Why would he need to dress up as Cap to earn respect?

 

[guyisnotcool]

Spoiler

Eh Bucky doesn't really have the charisma or personality to be cap or lead the Avengers tbh. At what we know from Sam's backstory is that he helps out retired vets and already friends/gets along decently with the rest of the Avengers.

 

[metaphysician]

On the matter of Sam and Bucky. . .

Spoiler

Fundamentally, its not about redemption or "deserves" or any such. The important question is "Who can best step into Steve Roger's shoes as leader and paragon of virtue?" Bucky needs no redemption, as he has nothing to feel legitimately guilty about. This doesn't change that he lacks the personality to be an effective leader or inspiration. He can't walk into a room and, by virtue of his charisma and conviction, light up those around him with energy and fervor. Sam Wilson? Sam Wilson probably could.

 

[Iceman]

Spoiler

I’m fine with Sam as Falcon but somehow incorporating the shield into what he does too.

...

 

[metaphysician]

Spoiler

I’m fine with Sam as Falcon but somehow incorporating the shield into what he does too.

...

Oh, indeed.

Spoiler

I'd rather imagine him as "American Eagle" or such, rather than just a straight Captain America II. After all, its not like he has the Super Soldier Serum, his entire methodology is still going to be fundamentally different.

 

[KevTravels]

Spoiler

I’m fine with Sam as Falcon but somehow incorporating the shield into what he does too.

...

This is exactly how I feel.

 

[KevTravels]

Oh, indeed.

Spoiler

I'd rather imagine him as "American Eagle" or such, rather than just a straight Captain America II. After all, its not like he has the Super Soldier Serum, his entire methodology is still going to be fundamentally different.

I hope the show touches upon this cause I worry that he might not be in future films.

 

[metaphysician]

I can't imagine that all kinds of things won't be covered in FatWS. Sam is one of the two leads, after all, its basically his equivalent of a solo movie.

 

[KevTravels]

I can't imagine that all kinds of things won't be covered in FatWS. Sam is one of the two leads, after all, its basically his equivalent of a solo movie.

Hopefully it's 8 episodes rather than 6 which is what Wanda/Vision is supposedly going to be.

I'm hoping for an action-comedy with some dramatic themes.

 

[THORin]

I’m hoping for a gritty spy thriller more along the lines of Winter Soldier, but I’ll take what I can get.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Hopefully it's 8 episodes rather than 6 which is what Wanda/Vision is supposedly going to be.

I'm hoping for an action-comedy with some dramatic themes.

Spoiler

Ugh... Play down the humor Marvel. That's my two cents. Especially with something spinning off from the Cap films and their characters which were always better balanced when it came to their amount of humor.

And especially in today's America there's too many themes and ideas that the show could play off of to make something particularly resonant. If the inclusion of U.S. Agent/John Walker is in the mix, then you have a good combination of characters to explore some weighty issues.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Spoiler

I don't understand why people think Bucky deserves Cap's mantle just because he was Cap's friend first. He's not actually a superhero and has never done anything to earn the title of Captain America. He's also not culpable for the terrible things he was forced to do, so he doesn't have anything to atone for. He basically has the same status as any random guy, except for the fact that he's Cap's friend.

Whereas Falcon has spent years risking his life to help others as part of the Avengers, in addition to being Cap's friend.

Plus, they are clearly setting Bucky up to become White Wolf. No one should have been expecting him to become the next Captain America in the first place.

Oh, indeed.

Spoiler

I'd rather imagine him as "American Eagle" or such, rather than just a straight Captain America II. After all, its not like he has the Super Soldier Serum, his entire methodology is still going to be fundamentally different.

Spoiler

This was my exact thought. It just fits too perfectly. Captain America + Falcon = American Eagle.

 

[KevTravels]

Spoiler

Ugh... Play down the humor Marvel. That's my two cents. Especially with something spinning off from the Cap films and their characters which were always better balanced when it came to their amount of humor.

And especially in today's America there's too many themes and ideas that the show could play off of to make something particularly resonant. If the inclusion of U.S. Agent/John Walker is in the mix, then you have a good combination of characters to explore some weighty issues.

whose John Walker?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

whose John Walker?

Early talk around the Disney+ show mentioned Walker, though I don't know how confirmed that is.

Spoiler

During a period in the 80's the U.S. government through a commision set up to oversee super humans came to the decision that because Steve Rogers was created through a government program and that the identity, symbols, training and equipment and support for Capt. America came from the Federal government too that they essentially owned "Capt. America". They basically said that from then on Steve had to operate under their orders if he wanted to continue to be Capt. America as well as benefit from the support, authority and clearances that came with the role.

Steve decided he wasn't going to knuckle under to them but had to admit that while he was Capt. America he hadn't created the ID, shield or costume. He walked away from the identity and the government eventually chose a man named John Walker and his partner to become the new Cap and Bucky.

Walker had undergone a treatment which while it wasn't the super soldier serum it did greatly enhance strength speed and durability. Actually in excess of the things Steve was capable of. Walker was given the Cap costume and trained to use the shield by the villain Taskmaster who was in government custody at the time. His partner was at first called Bucky but soon adopted the code name Battlestar and given his own durable shield.

Walker was more a reactionary blind patriot and was ideal to take the commision's orders. However he far from truly understood what the symbol of Captain America really meant. His methods were harsh and violent. Eventualky he ran afoul of a domestic terrorist group and they killed his mother and father. Walker went on a murderous rampage.

During all this Steve took on the simple moniker of The Captain. Tony Stark created a new shield, not as durable but it got the job done. It was in this period that Steve actually picked up Thor's hammer for the first time showing whether he was Capt. America or not he still had the qualities that expressed the best of the country.

As the story came to an end of course Steve reclaimed the ID of Cap and the shield. Walker took on the code name of U.S. Agent. He was mind wiped to block the death of his parents, brain washed to think he was actually named Jack Daniels and for a time was on the West Coast Avengers roster.

Walker was a harsher and as said more reactionary type than Steve without the compassion and judgement Rogers always displays.

I could see the Falcon and Bucky show dealing with a similar story where the government pretty much doesn't care about Steve's wishes as to who to pass the Cap mantle to and Walker is chosen despite Bucky, Sam's or anyone else's protest.

I think I could see the series being about what it means to be Capt. America or what the role is supposed to symbolize. In the context of the current state of American political divisions it might tackle some timely and important topics.

 

[Lencho01]

Anthony Mackie Learned About the End of Falcon's Avengers: Endgame Storyline From Another Cast Member

 

[Vaibow]

Early talk around the Disney+ show mentioned Walker, though I don't know how confirmed that is.

Spoiler

During a period in the 80's the U.S. government through a commision set up to oversee super humans came to the decision that because Steve Rogers was created through a government program and that the identity, symbols, training and equipment and support for Capt. America came from the Federal government too that they essentially owned "Capt. America". They basically said that from then on Steve had to operate under their orders if he wanted to continue to be Capt. America as well as benefit from the support, authority and clearances that came with the role.

Steve decided he wasn't going to knuckle under to them but had to admit that while he was Capt. America he hadn't created the ID, shield or costume. He walked away from the identity and the government eventually chose a man named John Walker and his partner to become the new Cap and Bucky.

Walker had undergone a treatment which while it wasn't the super soldier serum it did greatly enhance strength speed and durability. Actually in excess of the things Steve was capable of. Walker was given the Cap costume and trained to use the shield by the villain Taskmaster who was in government custody at the time. His partner was at first called Bucky but soon adopted the code name Battlestar and given his own durable shield.

Walker was more a reactionary blind patriot and was ideal to take the commision's orders. However he far from truly understood what the symbol of Captain America really meant. His methods were harsh and violent. Eventualky he ran afoul of a domestic terrorist group and they killed his mother and father. Walker went on a murderous rampage.

During all this Steve took on the simple moniker of The Captain. Tony Stark created a new shield, not as durable but it got the job done. It was in this period that Steve actually picked up Thor's hammer for the first time showing whether he was Capt. America or not he still had the qualities that expressed the best of the country.

As the story came to an end of course Steve reclaimed the ID of Cap and the shield. Walker took on the code name of U.S. Agent. He was mind wiped to block the death of his parents, brain washed to think he was actually named Jack Daniels and for a time was on the West Coast Avengers roster.

Walker was a harsher and as said more reactionary type than Steve without the compassion and judgement Rogers always displays.

I could see the Falcon and Bucky show dealing with a similar story where the government pretty much doesn't care about Steve's wishes as to who to pass the Cap mantle to and Walker is chosen despite Bucky, Sam's or anyone else's protest.

I think I could see the series being about what it means to be Capt. America or what the role is supposed to symbolize. In the context of the current state of American political divisions it might tackle some timely and important topics.

Jonnie Walker/Jack Daniels... the 'thirst' avenger! lol did he wear a cherry on his shield, guess that would have been 'old fashioned'.

Was his first assignment tequila or just subdue her?

Oh man... the puns are endless.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Mark Grunewald was being too clever by half with those names, yes.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

By BossLogic

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

 

[Iceman]

Hopefully it's 8 episodes rather than 6 which is what Wanda/Vision is supposedly going to be.

I'm hoping for an action-comedy with some dramatic themes.

Possible as I’d imagine SW/Vision could have a higher budget per episode.

 

[Iceman]

Ignoring the joke, he looks great there. I just don’t want any version of him without the Falcon wings. If I get Falcon wings with Cap colours and shield then I am totally onboard. I would love to see imaginative action scenes using both wings and shield together well.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Ignoring the joke, he looks great there. I just don’t want any version of him without the Falcon wings. If I get Falcon wings with Cap colours and shield then I am totally onboard. I would love to see imaginative action scenes using both wings and shield together well.

I am more than open to Sam being a new Cap... But I have a sneaking suspicion that the Disney+ show is going to whiff on that and basically come down on the "No one can be the next Captain America" side of things. Unless there's a title change I think that it being named Falcon & Winter Soldier is kind of telling.

 

[Iceman]

I am more than open to Sam being a new Cap... But I have a sneaking suspicion that the Disney+ show is going to whiff on that and basically come down on the "No one can be the next Captain America" side of things. Unless there's a title change I think that it being named Falcon & Winter Soldier is kind of telling.

I don’t mind too much if they do that as Falcon is already a good hero persona, but I would love for him to take on Cap colours in his memory and try and be a Cap in terms of role/responsibility/behaviour. And I really want him to integrate Cap’s shield effectively into his moves/combos.

 

[KevTravels]

I am more than open to Sam being a new Cap... But I have a sneaking suspicion that the Disney+ show is going to whiff on that and basically come down on the "No one can be the next Captain America" side of things. Unless there's a title change I think that it being named Falcon & Winter Soldier is kind of telling.

That's a good point. They may leave that for the films to touch upon.

 

[KevTravels]

Probably my fav appearance from him and fav look.